Talk:Władysław Raginis

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Czesc jego pamieci!

Halibut, for long time i wanted to create the page about Raginis. You were faster as usual. COngartulations on fine job. Szopen 10:05, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Someone beat me to Walerian Czuma, had to chose other of my heroes :) [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 13:55, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Czemu nie piszecie po polsku? PolskiNarodowiec1985 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.83.105 (talk) 08:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Because this is English Wikipedia. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

B-class review questions
Two things strike me as odd:
 * are Sabaton lyrics 1) necessary and 2) free enough to be used per WP:QUOTATION and such? I think that the answer to both is "no" and they should be removed
 * "honorable suicide" - is this really how the sources discuss this? With all due respect to Raginis (and that means a lot), I balk at describing any suicides as honorable. Wikipedia needs an article on the honorable suicide, but out of the top of my head, I am not aware of this concept in the Western (Polish) culture. Certainly, there is nothing in the Polish Army's regulations that would suggest a similarity to Japanese bushido and sepukku... As such, I'd strongly suggest removing the word "honorable". Raginis committed suicide, that's a fact. Whether it was honorable or not, it is a matter for discussion (at some high-end referencing, if anybody wants to keep it). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Done! Ajh1492 (talk) 22:46, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Lead too short
This should have a longer lead. I am a bit surprised it passed as a GA with such a tiny one. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 22:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree with the comments on the lead. The prose is quite poor in places too. For exampleIn the late summer of 1939, the "Sarny" Regiment sent bulk of its forces to Upper Silesia to man the Fortified Area Silesia, some units, including Raginis, went to Osowiec Fortress, near border with East Prussia. It is also very dry, lots of the sentences don't flow very well. There are too many single sentence paragraphs and the tablet inscription currently does not fit into the article very well. I would also question the broadness and focus. The relative lengths of the cultural reference and posthumous honor sections that long would suggest that there should be more information to pt into the biography proper. AIR corn (talk) 23:31, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Guderian ordering killing of POW's (?!?!)
This seems contradictory to absolutely everything written about Guderian by scholars and historians. Given that the source cited is a newspaper, as opposed to a history book or scholarly journal article, I am removing it until better sources can be found.

130.111.252.52 (talk) 14:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * re : Now, Polish Wikipedia writes that this account is "unconfirmed", whatever that means, but does not even provide a reference for this claim. Our source was . I've added a link to the article. It states (on p.3). "W imieniu gen. Guderiana przedstawił kpt. Raginisowi ultimatum. Albo bunkier się podda, albo wszyscy polscy jeńcy wzięci podczas bitwy do niewoli zostaną rozstrzelani.". ([German negotiator] presented an ultimatum in the name of gen. Guderian to cpt. Raginis: unless the bunker surrenders, all Polish POWs will be executed." Granted, the original source was not very reliable (a news / popular history article), but the claim does seem repeated in more reliable sources. It is confirmed by the Raginis bio in Polski Słownik Biograficzny (I have snippet view only, but enough to see the following sentence: "8,00 rano 10 IX Niemcy wysłali polskiego kaprala z ultimatum; jeśli dowódca nie podda schronu rozstrzelają wszystkich jeńców.",, and without full access to PSB it's not easy to attribute his bio to a particular author). In pl:Apoloniusz Zawilski attributes this claim to two surviving Polish witnesses ("Według relacji dwu pozostałych przy życiu obrońców Wizny, poddanie schronu wymusili Niemcy groźbą rozstrzelania wszystkich jeńców i wysadzenia"), citing the following source: ; this time snippet view fails and I cannot get any quote from this book. At this point I am not seeing any more reliable sources on this (I see a bunch of news articles, but those are not worth mentioning on that level). Still, I think the sources cited here, in particular Zawislki, are reliable enough to include the disputed content back. PS. Pl wiki account then suggests that Raginis refused the offer, fought for a while longer, then surrendered the bunker, and Guderian did not execute anyone (and, dear anon, your section heading is incorrect, as even the text removed suggested only that Guderian threatened to kill them, and did not order anyone to do so). PPS. English language source:  suggests that this claim was made as early as 1945. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  15:25, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

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