Talk:WKRK-FM

Bad move needs fixing
Should someone fix the bad cut-and-paste type move to here from WXTM? I don't have the guts to do anything about it except write this request... -- WC  Quidditch  &#9742;   &#9998;  17:52, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. I reverted it back to the last revision of the WXTM page. --Aaron 22:58, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, I blanked WXTM and set it to redirect here. You had two competing versions of the same page. --Aaron 23:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Why?
For the first time in a long time Cleveland finally got a radio station that played great alternative music. Now the radio station changed from 92.3 X-treme to K-Rock which is now modern rock. I have a feeling that this new station will be going down hill because it is under new management. Only time will tell. I now find myself listening to WMMS more because of the music they play.

--Wanting 92.3 X-treme back.

Move
Whoever did this moving of call letters did it completely wrong. This article has lost it's history too. IrisKawling 16:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it was totally botched by someone. It'll take an admin to fix it all, since it involves moving back over an article with a non-empty history (my least favorite restriction in Wikipedia). Wasted Time R 16:23, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the calls are still WFNY-FM and WXRK for New York and Cleveland respectively. --Tv&#39;s emory 20:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

There seems to have been 2 botched merges regarding these 2 radio stations (4 call signs: WXTM, WXRK, WFNY-FM, and WKRI): First, the one in 2006 should be fixed. The call signs on Jan 7, 2006 changed as followed: WXTM became WXRK and WXRK became WFNY-FM. In terms of the articles, WXRK to WFNY-FM was moved correctly, but WXTM to WXRK was not (text was copied and pasted). This 2006 WXRK is currently named WKRI, so to fix this: Second, on May 25, 2007, the articles were moved as follows: WXRK to WKRI and WFNY-FM to WXRK. WXRK to WKRI was done correctly, but WFNY-FM to WXRK was not (text was copied and pasted). So to fix this: I think this will get all of the histories back as they should be. We (non-administrators) could fix the WFNY-FM back to WXRK ourselves, but would lose the history of the last few edits from today. I'm just going to leave it as is. --Scott Alter 20:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * history merge WXTM into WKRI
 * delete WXTM
 * recreate WXTM as a redirect to WKRI
 * history merge WFNY-FM into WXRK
 * delete WFNY-FM
 * recreate WFNY-FM as a redirect to WXRK
 * I've posted it over at WP:SPLICE, just need to wait for an admin to do it --  p b 3 0   < c . t > 21:00, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Who executed these moves? Officially, neither station has changed their call letters yet. New York's K-Rock is still using the WFNY-FM call letters. I imagine that the supposed WKRI call letters have yet to be applied to Cleveland's K-Rock. I don't think Wikipedia should speculate on future call letters until they become official. 70.111.58.38 11:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, 92.3 in NY used both sets of call letters on May 25. Although the FCC's database is not updated yet, WXRK would not have been used on 92.3 in NY if it had not been transfered back. And according to the WKRI article, the old WXRK in Cleveland began using WKRI. --Scott Alter 16:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:WXRKlogo.png
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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Move article to WKRK-FM
Arbitron naming convention

RadioLocator.com naming convention

FCC naming convention compared to past callsigns
 * As the above links demonstrate, the callsign suffix "-FM" is preferred over "(FM)". As such, I propose moving WKRK (FM) to WKRK-FM. Please comment. MisterE2123Five3 (talk) 07:06, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. Make the move, no discussion is needed. TomCat4680 (talk) 07:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The only truly relevant thing here is that the FCC-issued call sign is "WKRK-FM" so the article should have had that name since late 2007. I'm boldly moving it now. - Dravecky (talk) 08:52, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. Only the F.C.C. callsign matters. WKRK (FM) can exist as a redirect. 12:03, 23 April 2010 User:Stereorock
 * Unfortunately, I live in England, and thus I know little about USA radio stations. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:14, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Radio Stations explains it somewhat. In short: Mexico/Canada/U.S. full-power callsigns can be just 3-4 letters, or they can have a 2-letter suffix. But in the U.S., a suffix is usually not assigned to full-power FM/TV unless the callsign duplicates an existing one; and AM never has a suffix. In any case, Wikipedia first follows the true callsign, including a hyphen, and then uses parentheses to disambiguate if necessary. --Closeapple (talk)
 * A-OK by me. Vjmlhds 12:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WKRK-FM is the correct current title. (Note that the standard is not that Wikipedia articles always use -FM over (FM); it's that Wikipedia uses the callsign assigned by the FCC, which is "WKRK-FM" in this case, so no disambiguation is needed. This station was "WKRK" (without -FM) for a year and a half in 2006-2007, but has been -FM since changing from WKRI in October 2007.) --Closeapple (talk) 04:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Analog format
Only 2,000 of the 13,000 analog AM/FM radio stations in the U.S. have converted to HD; of those that have converted, all still broadcast via analog as mandated by the FCC. Moreoever, the first HD channel of every HD Radio station is a simulcast of the analog signal -- again, as mandated by the FCC. 239 million analog radio listeners in the U.S. vs. only 3 million HD Radio units. By far, analog is still the preferred choice among radio consumers. Clearly, the infobox should reflect that analog technology is still the dominant form of transmission. It's also no secret that the radio industry has been heavily promoting HD Radio; by including only the HD Radio formats, one begins to question the credibility of this article's content. Levdr1 (talk) 22:26, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Schedule
I have added a source to show that it is indeed J.T. The Brick that airs during the overnights.

WKRK's website lists it as Fox Sports from 12-6 a.m., but all but one of those hours is really just J.T. The Brick's program.

Thus it would be more accurate to mention him by name since that's who fills the bulk of that time slot.

Vjmlhds 02:32, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


 * WKRK-FM does not identify or brand itself as a Fox Sports Radio station -- at most, WKRK-FM is a part-time FSR affiliate -- Fox Sports is nothing more than filler for the overnight hours when few if any people are listening. The Brick source provided does not link to WKRK-FM whatsoever: we have a source showing that Fox Sports airs on the station overnights, and we have a separate source showing that the Brick airs on Fox Sports overnights, but nowhere do we have a source stating that the station airs the Brick via FSR. If the station itself doesn't think the Brick show is notable enough to list on its own schedule on its own website, and if there isn't a single source online or in print to verify that the Brick airs on WKRK-FM overnights, well... you have to draw the line somewhere, and that level of detail simply does not merit inclusion in the article (particularly when the station itself is apparently struggling to find an audience during any hours, let alone overnights). And it certainly doesn't justify removing already properly sourced content regarding the station's format change. Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 01:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


 * See...here we are again. I included information with sources to back it up, but for some reason, it can't be included because it's not the exact source or other such euphymism for...nitpicking. And the stations ratings have nothing to do with the fact of what should be included on the station schedule list. Please help me out here and tell me what I'm missing:


 * WKRK airs Fox Sports from 12-6 a.m. and there's sources to back it up. All but one of those hours is filled by J.T. The Brick, with sources to back it up. But for some reason, I can't mention him by name...why?


 * Just my view, but it looks to me that if there's information to be added and it's backed up by sources, what's wrong with adding it? Here's the info, here's the sources...seems cut and dry. One's opinion of how "relevant" something is should not come into play. 92.3 runs FSR from 12-6, and all but one hour is filled by J.T. The Brick...those are facts that can't be argued. If it can be backed up by outside sources, then it should be included in a Wiki article--regardless of the subject of said article is. Vjmlhds 19:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


 * WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The issue isn't whether the Brick show airing on WKRK-FM is true or not; it's a question of notability. And you're right, the station's ratings alone don't dictate notability. But given the fact the station does not identify itself with Fox Sports Radio, and the fact that FSR only airs during the overnight hours -- well, one would find it difficult to argue that the Brick show is anything more than filler. And since the Brick show is part of Fox Sports Radio, the FSR wikilink itself will suffice as the FSR article describes in detail the whole of its programming lineup. There is no need to list every detail about the station's programming in the article. Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 22:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


 * This is quite honestly really a matter of viewpoint. Things like WP:INDISCRIMINATE provide guidelines, but in the end are a matter of subjectivity. What is irrelevant to some might be important to others. There have been articles on Wikipedia where I have told others that less is more, and that they didn't have to go into such minute detail about EVERY TINY LITTLE THING, but here was a case where adding one more detail really wouldn't hurt. I'll stand down here because quite honestly, in the big picture the overnight host on a radio station isn't that important to go knock-down drag-out over, but also realize that coming across as heavy-handed (almost like lecturing) does rub people the wrong way, and that are better ways to get the point across. Vjmlhds 03:26, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * In the spirit of cooperation, I've added info on JT The Brick. Just bear in mind that there are limits to what should/can be included in any Wikipedia article. Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 20:41, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, I agree 100%. Like I said, I've gotten on others when they've gone on and on unnecessarily. All I've maintained is when when one show takes up a 5 hour time slot every day, it's worth a mention. All the other FSR related stuff that airs on 92.3 is perfectly fine to just be lumped in as Fox Sports. Vjmlhds 00:13, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Bear in mind that I still don't agree. The FSR programming is nothing more than filler. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the station bump FSR for local programming if/when it starts to take off (as an example, WFAN is local overnights). But anyway, in the spirit of cooperation, I'm willing to agree to the addition of the JT Brick wikilink. Keep it at that, and we're good. Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 00:46, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Phelps
Phelps serves in multiple capacities on Fox Sports Ohio: reporter, play-by-play announcer, show host, etc. (via http://www.foxsportsohio.com/pages/landing?blockID=93057) "Along with his Cavalier duties, Phelps has performed a variety of other duties with FOX Sports Ohio, including play-by-play of Mid-American Conference football and basketball, play-by-play of Thursday Night High School Football, hosting Cleveland Indians pre-game and post-game shows, and hosting Cleveland Browns, Ohio State football and Mid-American Conference programming." Also, note that no such profile exists on the Cleveland Cavaliers website. Levdr1 lp ( talk ) 00:07, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The 2011-12 Cleveland Cavaliers Media Guide, available for download in .pdf format here, identifies Jeff Phelps as "Fox Sports Ohio Host/Reporter". There is nothing to indicate that he was hired by the Cavaliers organization, or that the Cavaliers had any say in his hiring. Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 19:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The only thing non-Cavs Phelps does on FSO these days is the high school football. All the other stuff was in the past, as FSO no longer has the rights to any of that programming (most of it going to STO).


 * Also, the team signs off on all of their announcers, so nobody does Cavs coverage without the team's blessing.


 * Vjmlhds 20:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The team very well may "sign off" on announcers, but you still need a reliable source to verify that claim. Until then, there's no reason to identify Phelps as anything other than a FSO personality. Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth Also, please use established talk page guidelines. WP:INDENT Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 23:47, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Self-published source
''Please note: I've removed any mention of the Gladiators from the lead. Rather than picking wording A over wording B, I've chosen neither until consensus is reached.''

Vjmlhds believes the Cleveland Gladiators operate a radio network, and that WKRK-FM serves as that network's flagship station. However, Vjmlhds has only provided a single source to verify his claim: a team press release from ClevelandGladiators.com. I have a problem w/ this. The Gladiators organization -- like any other business -- has an obvious interest in promoting itself. It's in the team's interest to seem bigger, more important, and more popular than it really is to help generate the largest possible following. Promoting that game day broadcasts air on a radio "network" (as opposed to one or two individual stations) helps achieve this goal. For area listeners, the word "network" brings to mind the Browns, Cavs, and Indians radio networks -- all of which cover major league teams, all of which claim more than 20 affiliates outside the Cleveland market (incidentally, Cavs owner Dan Gilbert also owns the Gladiators). The Ohio State radio network, which also can be heard in Cleveland, claims more than 60 affiliates. But in the case of the non-major-league Gladiators, the team only airs on a single station outside of WKRK-FM. So when a team press release alone claims the team airs on a "network", I'm not terribly convinced. Per WP:SPS, "... self-published media... are largely not acceptable as sources." The policy continues in the notes section: "Further examples of self-published sources include  press releases , material contained within company websites, advertising campaigns, material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group..."  With respect to sports teams, it is common practice on Wikipedia (WP:WPRS specifically) to reserve the term "radio network" for a collection of radio stations from multiple markets which air team coverage. Similarly, it is common to reserve the term "flagship" for a radio station which is not only in the team's home market, but also part of a network. The term simulcast is far more appropriate for a situation like this w/ only two stations (not multiple). Of course, should reliable independent sources surface which support the team's press release, I would support a different wording. Levdr1 lp /  talk  17:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't "believe" anything - I'm just going by what the source says. I also think that it's not up to the individual editor what does and doesn't constitute a network.  The Gladiators consider WKRK to be their flagship radio station, and WHKZ/Warren-Youngstown as an affiliate.  It doesn't matter if it's 2 stations or 102 - if an entity considers what they have to be a network, then ultimately it's their call, because it's their baby.  It's kind of arbitrary to say "it must have X amount of stations to be considered a network".  When NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, etc. all started out, they had very few affiliates, but did that mean they weren't networks?  Everybody's gotta start somewhere.  And Levdr is trying to make it sound like it's some diabolical scheme that the Gladiators are trying to promote themselves.  Welcome to real life - that's how business works.  And so what if Dan Gilbert owns both the Cavs and Gladiators?  Paul Allen owns both the Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trailblazers...it's somehow evil to own 2 teams (or in Gilbert's case 4 - also counting the Lake Erie Monsters and Canton Charge)?  Bottom line, I don't use the term flagship just because I felt like it - it's the term used by both the team and the station on-air, online, and in print (programs), and I have a reference to back me up.  This kinda feels like a previous dispute Levdr and I had awhile back regarding the status of WMMS as an Indians flagship. Vjmlhds (talk) 18:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Your only source is a press release from the team. Sources about themselves are not always reliable because they are inherently biased.  In this case, both the Gladiators and WKRK-FM have an obvious interest in promoting/marketing the team and its on-air broadcasts.  Wikipedia, however, is not promotional.  Sources must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.  I question the team's use of the term "network" because it conflicts with the reality of the team's radio partnership(s).  Also, this specific dispute has nothing to do with any station other than WKRK-FM, so I would appreciate it if you would please refrain from references to unrelated pages and stay on topic.   Levdr1 lp  /  talk  19:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * If you look at the radio network article, you will see the what the Gladiators are doing falls within that definition - distributing their programming to extend past the total coverage of a single signal. The Glads wanted to expand their fan base, so they signed up with WHKZ to get a foothold in Youngstown.  As I said, you gotta start somewhere.  And by pure letter of the law, the Gladiators are trying to start a network.  I'm sorry it isn't as big as you'd like it to be. Vjmlhds (talk) 19:27, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you mentioned the radio network article because it specifically states the following: "The Broadcast type of radio network is a network system which distributes programming to  multiple stations simultaneously..."  Levdr1 lp  /  talk  19:32, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * BTW, I'm going to assume were unintentional.   Levdr1 lp  /  talk  19:55, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Correct on the unintentional change. I ran into an edit conflict, and went back to resend my response - the deletion was done in error and I apologize for that. And WKRK and WHKZ count as multiple stations don't they?  Not trying to be cute, but I assumed 2 = multiple.  Just for the sake of needing to know, if the Glads signed up 1 more station, would that count as a network?  I mean how many stations does it take to make a network? Vjmlhds (talk) 20:11, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * No, I don't consider 2 of anything to be "multiple". Dictionary.com defines multiple as consisting of, having, or involving several or many individuals, parts, elements, relations, etc." (Does 2 sound like "several" or "many" to you?)  As a bare minimum, I think in order for a radio network to be considered as such, it would have to be represented in at least three separate markets'' (not stations).  So if a Gladiators affiliate cropped up in Akron in addition to Cleveland & Youngstown, then I would consider that a network.  Technically.   Levdr1 lp  /  talk  20:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * As a caveat, I also think that just because a collection of stations is technically a "network", that doesn't automatically mean it should be noted in the lead. Coverage, yes.  Network status?  Certainly in the body, but probably not in the lead, especially if the network is not notable enough for a standalone article.   Levdr1 lp  /  talk  20:30, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with all of that. Vjmlhds (talk) 20:32, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Not trying to reignite the discussion about network status...that was settled. All I was looking to do was tighten things up a little bit by including the Glads along with the personalities that WKRK is  the "radio home of".  It's an economy of words thing.Vjmlhds (talk) Vjmlhds 18:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm for word economy, but not at the expense of all other considerations; your edit somewhat awkwardly equates on-air talent to a pro sports team.  Levdr1 lp  /  talk  19:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

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