Talk:Waata Pihikete Kukutai

Govt report is reliable
An editor has removed detail about a meeting that this chief(along with other chiefs)had with govt officials. He says that the source is unreliable because it comes from a government report. They were the people present at the meeting. Does he have a problem with facts? Does he have another source that says otherwise? Claudia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 22:11, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Contemporary reports from parties at war are inherently unreliable. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

This meeting took place at a time of peace-years before war broke out in the Waikato! The govt met with various leading chiefs to meet their reasonable demands and head off war. This is what the report says and this is what actually happened. Magistrates were provided as requested, laws were provided. The government even printed books in Maori to explain the laws and European ways to Maori. They set up a printing press to explain the government's position. The Waikato campaign did not start till mid 1863. Claudia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The report was issued in 1860. The New Zealand Wars ran from 1845 to 1872, and the First Taranaki War from 1860 - 1861. This was not a time of peace. Stuartyeates (talk) 23:30, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I see nothing in the report or its contents that suggests it is particularly unreliable as a source for those basic biographical facts on Kukutai. I do not, however, see the need to include the condescending comment that Kukutai was regarded as an intelligent chief. This was in an era when Maori were regarded as savages. I am, however, puzzled by the extended paragraph in the article that says Kukutai fought with the Kingitanga forces at Rangiriri and was wounded, taken captive and held for months as a prisoner. This was a man who had been clearly shown he supported the Queen (see this), had opposed the formation of the Kingitanga movement and had been chosen as a head magistrate. He had assisted the British army in running stores up the Waikato River during the Waikato invasion and later became a major in the New Zealand militia. I can find no source that supports this quite extraordinary claim. BlackCab  ( TALK ) 08:35, 13 August 2014 (UTC)