Talk:Waffle House Index

Closure of 365 locations announced March 24, 2020 due to the Covid-19 pandemic
https://www.wafb.com/2020/03/24/waffle-house-closes-locations-across-us/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.190.23 (talk) 04:03, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

This is not relevant to the Waffle House Index. The concept of the index is that if the infrastructure is so devastated that even Waffle House can’t open (Index = Red) or Waffle House can open but only with a limited menu (Index = Yellow), then the devastation is so bad that no business can open. But not only did other businesses remain open but many other restaurants were able to stay in business, because their menus were more amenable to delivery and takeout, their restaurants were better configured for social distancing (if only by using outside seating), they had drive-through windows, or all of the above. EditorCliff (talk) 17:49, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

New Section on page
Created "Other Usage" section, as it is clear Waffle House intends to use it for this purpose. Removed the news story from the "In the Media" section and added the ref to the new article copy. Not sure if everyone will be happy with that title. P37307 (talk) 12:55, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Removed this section because, by taking ownership of the Waffle House Index, Waffle House has made the subject less notable, as it’s now part of their branding. In other words, this information is a story produced by the primary source, which is Waffle House, not a secondary source.

Furthermore, this usage of the term is opposite to its original meaning. The original concept is that one can tell the extent of damage to an area’s infrastructure by whether Waffle Houses are able to open. It’s a 3-tiered system, but the middle tier—open with a limited menu—is meaningless in this context. Furthermore, the concept is that the situation is so dire that no other restaurants are able to operate. But Covid did not shut down restaurants that have drive-through windows or have menus that are amenable to takeout and delivery. Indeed, rather than the first to open, Waffle Houses were among the last. EditorCliff (talk) 19:23, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Updated Waffle House Index (COVID-19)
https://wafflehouseindex.us/

If somebody thinks this is worthy of inclusion, feel free to add it.

--107.77.219.203 (talk) 22:05, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Explainer: https://rud.is/b/2020/03/26/the-waffle-house-index/ --107.77.219.203 (talk) 22:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Citation Premade: --107.77.219.203 (talk) 22:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

This website seems to be an aggregator of information, not a true secondary source. The ultimate source of the information seems to be a trade publication: https://www.ehstoday.com/emergency-management/article/21906815/what-do-waffles-have-to-do-with-risk-management

It seems to me that this information is likely from a press release or similar marketing material. Even if that isn’t the case, other than repeating a statement by Craig Fugate that could have been plucked from any article making a passing mention of the index, it does nothing to document the existence or utility of the index. In other words, it’s a passing mention itself in a website of dubious scholarship, not worthy of citation in Wikipedia.

Thinking of this another way, this information does not illustrate the Waffle House Index—a 3-tiered index of the severity of a disaster based on whether Waffle Houses have been able to stay open and, if so, how extensive a menu they have been able to offer. The concept is that if Waffle House can’t open for business, nobody will be able to open.

But Covid did nothing to the facilities themselves. The problem is unique to Waffle House—the menu isn’t amenable to takeout; the restaurants are too compact for social distancing, and, at least at the Waffle Houses I know about, there is no drive-through. At an intersection near my neighborhood, every other restaurant—Jack in the Box, Dunkin Donuts, Sonic, Starbucks, Popeye’s, and Taco Bell—as well as each of the convenience stores and its takeout counter was open for business for months before the Waffle House reopened. That makes the status of the Waffle House exactly the opposite of what the Waffle House index is supposed to be. Instead of being the only business that could open, they were the only business that had to stay closed. EditorCliff (talk) 17:38, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Remove Notability flag?
I've read the flag, and I don't get why this may get removed. This is a well-referenced article, and it's a real thing that comes up in the news from time to time (especially around large disasters). I mean, look at the headers on this Talk page... not only was this article referenced in a publication like the Huffington Post, but it was shown on Wikipedia's main page!

I want to remove this flag. Anyone disagree? Greg Salter (talk) 17:27, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

I’ve read the description of the flag and followed links to various explanations of the issue and the underlying issues. It probably boils down to whether this is a real concept used by FEMA and the overall quality of references.

Does FEMA really use the Waffle House Index? Obviously it once did, as this FEMA blog shows: https://www.fema.gov/blog/its-little-piece-normal I think this blog entry is the intended target of a link that now produces a 404 error. (The URL above is from FEMA’s archived content.) More recent stories from FEMA indicate that the index was former director Craig Fugate’s baby, and that current FEMA staff want nothing to do with it. In other words, it was a thing for a while, but not any more.

If that’s the reason for the flag, it might be the case that no amount of editing can change it. In the grand scheme of things, Craig Fugate’s personal way of describing the impact of a storm might not be a significant topic.

As for the references, even though this topic was covered by the Washington Post and Huff Post, it also was mentioned a lot in blogs and from materials produced by Waffle House. The many citations of these weaker sources—the blogs—might be undermining the impact of the stronger sources cited. The explanation of this flag actually makes the point that removing weaker sources might improve the notability of the article—especially if the sources removed make only a passing mention of the Waffle House Index. (Apparently there is an algorithm that adds this flag, so reducing the number of weak references will change the result of that algorithm.)

Another possible problem with the references is that some are Waffle House’s own press releases or are the republication of those releases. The press release would be a primary source. As such, it’s not an appropriate source for a Wikipedia article, and its publication elsewhere does not improve the situation. If so, the notability of the topic could be improved by removing that promotional material—for example, the photo of the storm team hunkered down in the conference room, the description of a jump team without an independent, third-party report of its responding to a disaster, and all the mentions of the Waffle House index and Covid. (Did I see those mentions of the number of restaurants closed due to Covid in the article itself or in one of the references I looked into? I’m not sure; either way, removing the citation of the reference would help. If the information was brought into this Wikipedia article, it should be removed.)

If there is enough information after all those references are removed, and especially if the same information can be found in independent third-party reports, then the flag for notability could be removed.

But keep in mind the advice of one of the essays linked to from the guideline: notability is a trait of the topic, not the article. If the topic is notable, it’s possible to improve the article to make that obvious. But if the topic isn’t notable, it isn’t possible to edit the article enough or add enough references to remove this flag. EditorCliff (talk) 16:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with you,, and so I've gone ahead and removed the tag. Benjamin (talk) 22:58, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Location of the waffle house in pictured in Biloxi
did some research and the waffle house that's featured in the article is located on Beach Dr and Palmetto Ln in Biloxi Mi. From the street view on Palmetto Ln you can see the white bricks of the destroyed waffle house. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spencer707201 (talk • contribs) 02:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)