Talk:Waiting for "Superman"/Archive 1

Tom Friedman wrote about it today
This op-ed is relevant. I had the opportunity to see a sneak preview of this movie, and it would be cool if we could get this article to FA status and to the front page around the time it comes out. Based on the participants and early buzz (Tom Friedman writing about it a month in advance of release), I think it is likely to be an important documentary.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:38, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Or it could be a piece of crap. Who knows? I don't think making assisting the marketing of this film a priority is worth it, though. Good luck getting an unreleased movie up to vaunted "feature article" status though. (But how on earth could anything brand new be the topic of a featured encyclopedia article?)Bali ultimate (talk) 20:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I saw the film, so at least I know if it is a piece of crap or not. :-) If you don't feel like working on it, then don't. :-) --Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:54, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, so since you think it was a good film, you want us to do a whole bunch of crystal balling and help promote it. How did you get this sneak peak, by the way? As for the film and the article, I'll keep an eye on what comes of it (I mean if Tom Friedman, whose prescience and foresight about the middle east warned us off of our Iraq adventure likes it, it's sure to be a winner!)Bali ultimate (talk) 13:31, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow, this entire first paragraph needs to be thrown out and rebuilt from scratch. Blatant violations of the NPOV policy abound. I'm fairly certain as this movie nears release and attracts more attention someone will fix it. 24.14.59.155 (talk) 10:14, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Recent press and blog links
I'm just collecting some recent press and blog links that we may find useful in terms of improving this article:


 * reports on OfficeMax donation to teachers based on people pledging to see the film
 * short report from an apparently anti-union blog
 * MTV news report about a screening
 * Huffington post blog report
 * review in a local Georgia Roman Catholic diocese newspaper
 * blog post

Notably lacking so far is negative critical commentary, either of the film, or of its premise. A couple of anons have been claiming that the film is biased anti-union, etc. I assume there will be some formal response or editorials written against the film from a pro-union perspective, but I've not found those yet.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:33, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Rotten Tomatoes I was able to find two critics who didn't like the film. However, with a 93% positive response, the bulk of the review section is going to be weighted positively. BloodmoonIvy (talk) 06:02, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

New York Times discussion
This article discusses the film, and seems likely to be a (negative) response to it, in this this article showcases a successful school of a very different type from those portrayed in the film. Not sure if it will be useful but wanted to add it to the collection of potentially useful links here on the talk page.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 07:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

What is the Connection with Superman?
The article doesn't explain why the documentary features footage of George Reeves as Superman. That is what I would like to know! Eligius (talk) 02:27, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, someone should include an explanation. The article now merely includes a reference to the fact that the Harlem Children's Zone is "the model and superman we are relentlessly instructed to aspire to." In the interview with Geoffrey Canada in the film, Geoffrey discusses his disappointment as a child at learning that Superman was fiction. If I remember correctly, he makes an analogy to the current situation that we cannot wait around for a fictional Superman to save us. The documentary from that point on occasionally inserts clips of old black and white Superman movies, which look rather silly and dated compared to modern movies. The last clip is of Superman (George Reeves) saving a school bus full of children because the driver had been somehow rendered unconscious. Superman says something like, "Someone took away his ability to think." I'm afraid I don't remember well enough to write the description but possibly someone else could? --seberle (talk) 13:20, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The title sounds like a reference to the Flaming Lips' song

Cornel West quote
Nightscream just removed an unsourced quote from Princeton academic per WP:NOR and WP:V. I don't disagree with that. I found the quote here so there is now a reference if we decide to put this back in. I'm not opposed to it, but since all I found is Professor West's note on his facebook page, I'm torn as to whether this quote is actually notable. I will leave it to others to decide.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, West's description of the Finnish school system is mostly wrong.--Victor Chmara (talk) 22:34, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Can you elaborate, Victor? What are the facts? We would like to know. --seberle (talk) 23:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


 * West is correct about 90+ percent of Finnish teachers being unionized and about the lack of standardized tests, but he's wrong about class size, teacher-student ratio, and teacher salaries. The average class size in Finnish schools is about 20 (this includes small elective classes; the class size is probably >20 in most cases). There are certainly not two teachers per class (although some classes may have teaching assistants who are not qualified teachers). There are experimental classes in some schools where special ed. students are "integrated" to regular classes, with two teachers, but this is not typical. West's claim that Finnish teachers "receive the salaries of many of our businesspeople" is a bit vague, but in 2008 the average monthly salary for Finnish primary school teachers was about 3600 euros, whereas for those with an MBA degree it was about 5600 euros . It is generally thought that primary school teacher salaries in Finland are on the low side considering that you need a Master's degree for the job.--Victor Chmara (talk) 03:11, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

thesis
What is the thesis of the film? What is the superman? who is waiting for him? Should we wait for superman? It appears from the criticism that this film advocates some action on education, but what? 71.194.44.209 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:33, 9 May 2011 (UTC).
 * This is not the first time this question has come up. Someone should really write a summary of the film for this article. --seberle (talk) 16:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I also came here for a summary.  Blue Rasberry    (talk)   18:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)