Talk:Wallingford, Oxfordshire

Opening comment
I've just removed some stuff from the article, as it was a possible copyright infringement. Parts were identical to text in "The Story of Wallingford", an article on a nice Wallingford website. Actually, parts of it seem not to be from that page. I might put some back... -- Oliver P. 10:02, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Except that the parts that appear not to be a copyright infringement don't make sense without the context of the parts which appear that they might be. Damn. I'll just leave it for now. -- Oliver P. 10:09, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Disambiguation page needed?
There are half a dozen towns called "Wallingford". Why should the one in Oxfordshire be the only one that comes up if you search "Wallingford + GO"? At the foot of the article there is a link to one of the other Wallingfords, but only because it is in a sister-city relationship with this one. I think a disambiguation page is called for, but don't yet know how to make one.--Haruo 5 July 2005 19:41 (UTC)

Possibly because this one is the earliest?

Population
The population data on this page (7000) was massively wrong - there are at least 10,000. Have updated temproarily to about 10,000 - will add a proper figure asap

Sciencebloke 09:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)This figure was taken from the 2001 census data on the National Statistics website. There are approx 5000 in Wallingford North and 5000 in Cholsey and Wallingford South - but that second figure obviously includes Cholsey (inc. Winterbrook) and Moulsford. I did look at a parish breakdown (excluding Cholsey, etc.) and that put the figure at just over 7000. I see Wikipedia has a figure of 4000 for Cholsey - I don't know where that number comes from.

I think we need to be careful about teh 2012 census, which was flawed in mmany respects. Also, the town has had a very high population growth rate since 2001 by UK standards.

Sciencebloke 21:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC) Do you have some figures for the population growth rate for Wallingford since 2001? I've no desire to underestimate the population figure, but just wanted to base it on something verifiable. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sciencebloke (talk • contribs) 21:53, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Detwinning, notable?
The town is reportedly trying to de-twin from Luxeuil-les-Bains.--T. Anthony (talk) 08:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Moved. In the discussion it was made clear that there is no primary topic. Most of the support for not moving is based on the oldest and first and made no case for this being the primary use. This conclusion is supported by the access statisticts that show that this article received less then 50% of the hits when compared with only two other possible articles. If the other articles were included the percentage of reads for this article would be even lower. So with no case for this being the primary use, it needs to be moved. That beings us to the second reason to not move and that is the target name. This seems to be an ongoing issue with British place names. So whatever is choosen would likely gather objections and other naming options was not really discussed. A later discussion on the best name outside of the moving of the disambiguation article should be considered. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Wallingford → Wallingford, Oxfordshire — The small town in England is not the primary topic for the term "Wallingford". A general web search shows a mix of hits from various topics including the town in Connecticut, the town in Vermont, a neighborhood in Seattle, and a bicycle company. Google News and Google Books shows a mix between various people's names and the town in Connecticut. Google Scholar shows mainly people's names. The unqualified Wallingford should be a disambiguation page since the English town is not the primary topic and so should not be at the base name when there are other topics known as Wallingford that are at least as significant as the English town. --Polaron | Talk 16:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Wallingford (disambiguation) → Wallingford


 * Oppose: The Oxfordshire Wallingford was the first one to exist and should be the primary topic. There are plenty of other examples like this.
 * The first one is not necessarily the most common meaning. In this case, there isn't a primary topic as defined by WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. See for example, Syracuse. There are also plenty of examples like this. --Polaron | Talk 18:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Yes, the Oxfordshire location came first, but that's just one small aspect of notability. See Boston and Boston, Lincolnshire where the original location isn't as noteworthy as its namesake. In this case, there is no one primary topic, so "Wallingford" should be the dab page. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 20:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support — No primary topic here. --Una Smith (talk) 21:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. There's no obvious primary topic, and "the first one to exist" isn't a reliable guideline - see Boston, Washington, etc. Tevildo (talk) 21:20, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose. We can argue all night about which Wallingford (if any) is the primary topic but we can't dispute that the Oxon Wallingford grabbed the page name first (I'm sure that there was a guideline somewhere that said effectively first-come first-served) and I'm unconvinced by the arguments to move. To be honest it seems to me to be a move just for the sake of moving. The DAB link at the top of the page serves its purpose well enough doesn't it?  Nancy  talk  16:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no such a "first come, first served" rule for article names. With the exception of being the primary topic for a name, if something is ambiguous, we use a disambiguated title. I think it's pretty clear that there is currently no overwhelming single meaning (i.e. there is no primary topic) for "Wallingford". --Polaron | Talk 17:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - There's no "first come, first served" rule as far as I know, which leaves us with the task of finding the most important or "primary topic." History and population are probably the best way to determine PT here (though I know of no fixed rule).  Oxfordshire certainly has a major claim from the historical point of view - Saxon times vs. the 1600's for Connecticut and Pennsylvania.  Population however is reversed: 44,000 for Connecticut, 14,000 for Pennsylvania, and less than 10,000 for Oxfordshire.  I don't think Vermont counts because it's so small (2000), or Iowa (200) either, and the Seattle neighborhood because it's part of Seattle.  But they do matter some because they cause some ambiguity.  In short, no town is unambiguously "Wallingford" so it should go first to a disambiguation page.  Smallbones (talk) 16:59, 7 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose: The other Wallingfords all appear to be named after the Oxfordshire Wallingford. From an encyclopaedic point of view, Wallingford in Oxfordshire's historical significance is vastly out of proportion to its current population, and some flavour of this is given by the number of wiki pages that link to the Wallingford page on the English town (this appears to be more than for any other usages). The disambiguation link immediately under the title of the Wallingford page deals effectively with any confusion.Sciencebloke (talk) 13:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, historical significance is not the primary basis for article naming but current usage is. See for example, Syracuse. Anyway, your are correct that the English town article has more internal links to it, 433 vs. 269 for the next one (the Connecticut town). In terms of page views, however, the two are roughly the same (about 2000 page views each in September). --Polaron | Talk 15:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The number of incoming links to Wallingford (ambiguous page name) and other articles with unambiguous page names should not be compared. The point of moving the dab page to the ambiguous page name is so that an article does not accumulate incoming links that actually should go to other articles.  A dab page at the ambiguous base name will still accumulate incoming links, but because they won't be mixed with valid incoming links they are far easier to find and fix.  --Una Smith (talk) 20:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I don't think the number of page views is a very good indicator at all. Has it ever been used to determine "the Primary Topic" or to determine anything at all on Wikipedia?  The problem is that quirks like the above, misspellings, temporary popularity or items in the news, would all effect this number, while we're probably aiming at something different - what in the long term most people would consider the primary topic.  Referring to page views could be an interesting addition to policy, but I don't think we're there yet, and would caution on its use.  Smallbones (talk) 22:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Regarding the number of incoming links - looking at those coming to Wallingford, these appear to be almost entirely (perhaps with the exception of this talk page) correct and valid links to the English town and not confused (or invalid) incoming links. So it seems there is a case for arguing that they are (in the absence of other conclusive methodology) a relevant proxy or indicator of encylopaedic significance, given internal linkage is a key concept in Wikipedia?Sciencebloke (talk) 20:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That argument assumes no one has spent any effort fixing incoming links that intend other articles. --Una Smith (talk) 23:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I accept that neither the oldest nor the biggest of several towns sharing the same name has an automatic prior claim on the name. However:


 * 1. The "otheruses" template at the head of the Wallingford article provides a perfectly good link to the much younger settlements that are named either after the original Wallingford or after persons whose surname came from it.


 * 2. The English Wallingford is of great historic significance, having been a Saxon royal burgh and the site of a Royal mint, and having a strategically important Norman castle that was the seat of powerful Norman lords with significant landholdings throughout the region: see Thomas Chaucer, Miles Crispin, William de la Pole, 1st Duke of Suffolk, John de la Pole, 2nd Duke of Suffolk, Alkerton, Oxfordshire, Aston Rowant, Cassington, Chesterton, Oxfordshire, Harpsden, Newton Purcell and Pyrton.


 * 3. Referring to the town as "Wallingford, Oxfordshire" may be debatable. Wallingford was part of Berkshire for nearly 1,000 years. It was transferred to Oxfordshire in 1974, only 35 years ago. Berkshire communities that were transferred to Oxfordshire at that time remain culturally ambivalent in their identity. Local organisations including the North Berks Football League, North Berks Motorcycle Club and the Oxford Diocesan Guild of Church Bell Ringers Old North Berks Branch all still refer to themselves as "North Berkshire" or "Old North Berkshire".


 * 4. Since the Local Government Commission for England (1992) there has been a succession of local boundary changes as various English counties and districts have been re-arranged to form unitary authorities. There is no guarantee that Oxfordshire will continue to exist, that Wallingford will remain part of it or that the UK Parliament might not try to change local authority structures yet again.


 * 5. Sometimes there are good reasons to move some Wikipedia articles, but I suggest that generally we are better occupied adding knowledge to Wikipedia than moving existing material around. Wallingford isn't broke, so please let's not expend effort "fixing" it. Motacilla (talk) 00:16, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Re #3 and 4, the specific target name would depend on the naming convention in current use. Whether that name is wrong or not should be a matter to be discussed at WP:NCGN. If counties are really unstable in the UK, maybe the UK editors should come up with a different naming convention. However, the proposed target name is consistent with the Wikipedia UK place naming convention as currently written. --Polaron | Talk 01:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Primary topic
Various metrics are used to decide if there is a primary topic. These include number of Google Book and Google Scholar hits, numbers of incoming links, and page view statistics. Here are page view statistics:


 * Wallingford has been viewed 17266 times in 2009.
 * Wallingford,_Connecticut has been viewed 17000 times in 2009.
 * Wallingford_(disambiguation) has been viewed 1232 times in 2009.

The disambiguation pages gets a rather high number of page views, compared to the ambiguous base name page, and that page does not get a majority of page views. --Una Smith (talk) 23:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wallingford in Recent Centuries
There is too much emphasis on Wallingford Castle in this article. Later history is provided, but the narrative keeps going back to the castle. Perhaps greater reference to the area surrounding Wallingford might be in order. --Oldontarian (talk) 15:28, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Parking spaces
Surely, in an encyclopedic article, there need not be any reference to the number of parking spaces in different locations in the town.--Brenont (talk) 01:56, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed Brenont. I will remove the unsourced section. Location is for a Geography section. WP:Settlement applies.SovalValtos (talk) 08:32, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Discussions regarding inclusion of Pictures in article
I beleive that the inclusion of the Pictures with the aritcle benefits the reader in terms of breaking up content and making the page easier to read. This is particularly true with the History page. I however understant that my view is not consistant with everyones. Does anyone have any thoughts on specific images that would be considered bloat and that do not improve the page? Regards Jhv.wilder (talk) 11:40, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Jhv.wilder Thank you for continuing the discussion on images in a new section. However you have not reverted your replacement of images as asked, so they will be removed shortly. It is up to you to convince others that they should be included with arguments based on policy and compliance with guidelines rather than simply saying you like them. WP:IMAGEPOL, as advised to you previously, is central here. The images removed by User:Lyndaship that you replaced in this edit with the edit summary "I disagree, the use of images makes the content accessable" are just some that are some specific images that are likely to be removed. I am sorry if you are disheartened by having edits reverted, but it is something that can happen to all of us and should happen less often as policies and guidelines become more familiar. Editing is not always easy. Best wishes.SovalValtos (talk) 02:38, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Hydraulics Research Station
In about 1959 I was one of six secondary school students who were taken to the Hydraulics Research Station in Wallingford as a prize for writing a good essay in a Christmas Lecture from the Institution of Civil Engineers.

Shouldn't it be included part of contemporary history? And also addition about Howbery Park?

46.69.62.55 (talk) 18:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC)