Talk:Walt Disney World Railroad/Archive1

Lilly Belle's return
The Lilly Belle had come back in July 21, 2016 last month right now. Here's the link: Reference: http://www.burnsland.com/disneyrailroads/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5213 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 23:23, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Discussion boards are not reliable sources. Sundayclose (talk) 02:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Under rolling stock, remove the current note for Lilly Belle "Presently being rebuilt at the Strasburg Rail Road in Strasburg, Pennsylvania[1]" as the Lilly Belle has since been moved back to WDW as of late July 2016. After deleting the note above, add "Currently at WDW in the roundhouse but not operational as crews are completing final refurbishment fixes and testing on the locomotive. Reference: http://www.burnsland.com/disneyrailroads/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5213 Ctimberlake17 (talk) 21:04, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The source you cite is not reliable. Sundayclose (talk) 21:37, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Try these links, I'm sure they're reliable sources: http://blogmickey.com/2016/07/lilly-belle-steam-train-returns-magic-kingdom/ and http://www.digitaldisneyworld.com/2016/09/ddw-pic-1844-lilly-belle-steam-train.html?spref=fb — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 22:42, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Both of those sources only state that she is back on property and that she is still being prepared for being put back into service. When we get a legit source actually showing her looping around the main line pulling a train with actual passengers onboard, then we can officially update her status in the article.  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 3:07, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

But the "Lilly Belle" is not out on the tracks, because the "Roy O. Disney" pulling the "Lilly's" 200 series green coaches and the "Roger E. Broggie" are out on the tracks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 13:48, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * First, what was the legit published source where you got the info you just posted? I shouldn't have to remind you, because several other people have notified you about this many times in several of the talk pages of the various IPs you have used (for anyone interested, see the related sockpuppet investigation page for more info), but I'll do it anyway. Online forums, hearsay, rumors, and "I'm an expert and I said so" are garbage in terms of using them as sources; and if you just arrogantly assume that you don't need to cite a source, that's even worse. Second, the info you posted even with a legit source is completely unrelated to the Lilly Belle locomotive's operational state. She has to be officially out on the main line pulling passengers to have her status changed to "in service." Third, the grammar in that statement you posted needs a lot of work to the point that it is almost incoherent. Unsourced, unsupportive of the specific topic at hand, and poorly written. Ever wonder why so many of your edits get reverted? This is why.  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 4:43, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

I DON'T CARE!!!! Because the "Lilly Belle" is still doing a test run with the "Roy O. Disney's" 400 series blue coaches. Here's a photo: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c182/burnsland/lilly%20belle%2004.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 00:45, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I would caution against using all caps and multiple exclamation points to state your opinion. People may mistake you for being emotionally unstable and decide to not take you seriously. Also, the picture you posted is most likely showing Lilly Belle in a test run as you say, but there's no date and no description for it and the gallery in which it is located is set to private. Because its authenticity can't be independently verified, we can't use it.  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 13:08, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

I've found a photo of the Lilly Belle on Flickr, she's back in service and is now pulling a train full of actual passengers around the Magic Kingdom. Here's the link and please change her status from "Not in service" to "In service": https://www.flickr.com/photos/95909967@N06/31350495455/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 21:07, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Please tell us how a photo supports your claim that it's back in service. If I link a photo of someone who died a couple of years ago, does that mean they came back to life!?!? As noted by others here, you have a serious problem understanding what a reliable source is. I'm not sure whether it's because you don't want to understand it because understanding it would mean you couldn't continue with your bad edits, or because you're not competent to edit. Click the blue link and read it. And if you don't understand what you read, come back here and ask. Until then, stop editing. You're headed for a block. Sundayclose (talk) 16:01, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Observe the new images I added to the article, in particular the new infobox image. I took all of these myself today while visiting Magic Kingdom (my family and I live only 90 minutes away from it) in an effort to put this outstanding issue to rest permanently. I have officially seen and heard (and smelled) the Lilly Belle back in action; however, note that I have not changed its status to "In service". We still need some sort of legit source in written form to update that, and to that end I have contacted the admin for steamlocomotive.com to get its database updated accordingly (it's the current source in use for the current statuses of the locomotives). Once that is updated, we can update the article!  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 02:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

The 2017 Refurbishment
The Walt Disney World Railroad will be close for a refurbishment on early 2017 from January 9 to February 16 and reopen to the guests on February 17. So change the ride's status from "Operating" to "Undergoing Refurbishment" on January 9, 2017 until February 17 that year.

Here's the link: http://www.doctordisney.com/2016/10/03/walt-disney-world-railroad-set-refurbishment-early-2017/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 21:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2017
The Walt Disney World Railroad is now close to be refurbish: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/attractions/magic-kingdom/walt-disney-world-railroad/ 24.88.92.254 (talk) 01:42, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * When you learn what a reliable source is, when you learn how to find a source that actually confirms what you think it says (i.e., you learn to read English), when you learn how to write with some semblance of English grammar, and when you learn not to throw temper tantrums when you don't get your way, your request might be taken seriously. Sundayclose (talk) 03:25, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Will you please change the WDWRR's status from "Operating" to "Under Refurbishment" until March 3, 2017? Because the WDWRR is currently closed for refurbishment: http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions/walt-disney-world-railroad/news/12dec2016-early-2017-walt-disney-word-railroad-refurbishment-extended.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 00:49, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Being closed for routine maintenance that will only last one or two months is not significant enough for its status to be changed in the article. If it were closed for non-routine maintenance lasting for a long or indefinite period of time, as is currently the case with the Disneyland Railroad, then it would be appropriate to change its status. As an example, take a look at the article for the Millennium Force roller coaster, which has featured article status. Cedar Point, the park in which it's located, is currently closed for the Winter season and doesn't typically reopen until May. Despite this, the status for the Millennium Force roller coaster is still marked as "operating". What you're asking for is one step above asking for the WDWRR's status to be changed to "closed" each night when the railroad closes for the day and to have it changed back to "operating" each morning. That's not what Wikipedia articles are for.  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 03:36, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I said change the status from "Operating" to "Under Refurbishment" until March 3, 2017.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.88.92.254 (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * "Closed for routine maintenance" = "under refurbishment".  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 02:28, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Please change it from "Operating" to "Under Refurbishment until March 3, 2017. Because like I said the WDWRR is under refurbishment until March 2, 2017, look at the website: http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/rehab.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:1301:40B9:D128:445:3125:CB52 (talk) 13:50, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
 * See comments above. Sundayclose (talk) 00:56, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2017
According to the "Walt Disney's Railroad Story" book on Pg.332, Imagineer Roger E Broggie didn't like the sound of bell of the #3 locomotive (before it was named after him). Because he said "sounded like a hammer hitting an old frying pan." So George Britton decided to swap out one of the riverboat's bells (which it's still under construction) and today the #3 "Roger E. Broggie" ended up having the clearest-ringing locomotive bell on the WDWRR. 2606:A000:1301:40B9:9C8B:D69C:124C:4241 (talk) 13:20, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Please give a complete and specific description of any requested change. Specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. The request must be of the form "please change X to Y". Sundayclose (talk) 16:17, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I looked up that fact in my copy of the book and I can confirm what you stated; however, do you truely believe that this fact is notable enough to be included in the article? I personally think it is not. Including too many non-essential details about the subject in the article can make the article tedious to read, lower the article's overall quality, and could potentially lead to its status as a good article being revoked (that's a bad thing). In other words, and literally in this case, we ought to avoid adding too many bells and whistles.  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 13:56, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
 * That was actually according to the early edition "Walt Disney's Railroad Story" book: https://www.amazon.com/Walt-Disneys-Railroad-Story-Small-Scale/dp/1563420066/ref=pd_sbs_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1563420066&pd_rd_r=DAPG27PKHYRQE6C9C3RZ&pd_rd_w=Et30Y&pd_rd_wg=qo2Gh&psc=1&refRID=DAPG27PKHYRQE6C9C3RZ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:1301:40B9:6857:F431:8512:B690 (talk) 03:02, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2017
The last sentence of the opening paragraph contains an incorrect word - specifically, the word "Amtrak". The specific factual support is as follows: the article correctly cites the years of sponsorship as 1976-1977. Checking the cited source reveals that the sponsor was the "Auto-Train Corporation". Cross-reference to the current Wikipedia article for the Auto Train (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Train) confirms that during the 1976-1977 period, the auto train service was, in fact, provided by the independent Auto-Train Corporation. Only after its bankruptcy in 1981 did Amtrak acquire the service, beginning in 1983. Thus, the statement that Amtrak, in whatever form, was the sponsor, is incorrect. Amendment to simply remove the word "Amtrak" will make the article factually correct. There is little need to clarify further; anyone interested can take the link to the Auto Train page and read the history there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.219.81.210 (talk) 18:11, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ Request implemented. Good catch.  Jackdude 101  ( Talk ) 18:21, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Railroad crossing in Frontierland
I'm not sure if this merits recognition, but there is a railroad crossing just beyond the Frontierland station. A swing bridge connects the track for the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad roller coaster (which is inside the perimeter of the WDWRR track) with Big Thunder's own roundhouse (outside the perimeter of the WDWRR). When Big Thunder is adding or removing its trains, trains on the WDWRR are halted at the Frontierland station so the bridge can be swung into place (it is an elevated bridge positioned above the WDWRR tracks).

I thought this might merit mention in the description of the WDWRR's route (the Ride Experience section of the article) and inclusion on the template showing features along the route. Jnmwiki (talk) 23:27, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ I added this info you suggested to the Block signals section. The source used, which is already present in the article, mentions this info in the same spot where the WDWRR's block signaling system is discussed. The picture in that section shows the part of the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad's track that connects to the swing bridge, as well. As for the template, there is no icon available for this very, very, unique crossing type, which I believe may be one-of-a-kind. That, combined with the fact the template doesn't really have room for any other features, is why I did not add this crossing to it. Jackdude 101  talk cont 02:12, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Max mph
Is there a source that says how fast the trains run? They make the 1.5 mi round trip in 20 minutes, for an average speed of 4.5 mph, but this does not count the dwell time at stations. One presumes that on a straightaway section far from a station they pick up a bit of speed. Abductive (reasoning) 23:57, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I have read that they are driven at a max speed between 10 and 12 mph, so the trip time does include the time stopped at each station. The locomotives have the capability of going much faster, but they never do because of safety reasons. Because their speed isn't that impressive (and because I can't recall where I read that info, or whether it was from a reliable source), I didn't include it in the article. The length of the line and the round trip time are sufficient, imo. Jackdude 101  talk cont 00:10, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I've found this max speed information from this link; I hope this would work: https://allears.net/magic-kingdom/walt-disney-world-railroad-magic-kingdom/ Trains13 (talk) 21:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Image for Fantasyland Station
The fantasyland station received a major overhaul as a part of “New Fantasyland” from 2010-2012, so the current photo is no longer accurate. Could someone with admin please change the picture or add a “before 2010” in the subtext of the image? Reasonable Doubt24 (talk) 03:22, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * There's already a picture of Fantasyland Station taken after 2012 (December 10, 2016, to be exact) in the Walt Disney World Railroad stations gallery in the Ride experience section. If you are referring to the picture in the Opening to present day subsection, that is there for historical context and is noted as such in the caption. Jackdude 101  talk cont 03:55, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Jackdude101 Thank you, totally my bad. Reasonable Doubt24 (talk) 04:10, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

1970s D Tickets and Frontierland parade crossing
I've found this really interesting information; just like the Disneyland Railroad in the 1950s, which required guests to have C tickets for them to ride on, the Walt Disney World Railroad originally required guests to have D tickets to ride on back then in the 1970s. Here's some proof that I've found: https://allears.net/2014/04/13/the-evolution-of-disney-tickets/ & https://allears.net/walt-disney-world/wdw-planning/1970s-walt-disney-world-tickets/ Trains13 (talk) 01:53, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If that info were to be added, I would use the second source only, as the info in question is not in text form and only in pictures in the first one. I would also caution against relying too much on allears.net. If the info is not super critical to tell the general story of the subject, and it's not from a formal, high-quality traditional article, sometimes less is more. Jackdude 101  talk cont 13:19, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jackdude101: Off topic question, should we mention about the Frontierland parade crossing being used for the annual Walt Disney World Marathon with one of the WDWRR locomotives being idled for photo ops of guests along the Marathon course? It was similar to how the Disneyland Railroad's roundhouse was being made available for the runDisney guests passing there. Here's the link: https://www.disneytouristblog.com/walt-disney-world-marathon-report-part-1/ Trains13 (talk) 18:49, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, since it's something temporary. If it were permanent, and the marathon was routinely routed by their roundhouse year after year, yeah that would be something notable to add, but if it's going to disappear after the railroad reopens...meh. Jackdude 101  talk cont 22:49, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jackdude101: I've looked closely at the Disney Tourist Blog source, and I've realized it was a fan site powered by Wordpress and it's not a reliable source whatsoever. Here's the proof: https://web.archive.org/web/20150121031503/https://www.disneytouristblog.com/walt-disney-world-marathon-report-part-1/ Trains13 (talk) 01:48, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * About the 1970s WDWRR "D" tickets, I've recently added this new info with these two suitable link sources here: https://allears.net/the-history-of-walt-disney-world-tickets-part-1/ And there: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/disney-world-50th-anniversary/os-prem-et-disney-world-50th-anniversary-1971-costs-and-today-prices-20210331-y4vowrdyynggjj235mzkxy3ov4-story.html Trains13 (talk) 20:34, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, seems alright to me. Jackdude 101  talk cont 21:50, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to hear that. :) Trains13 (talk) 23:30, 24 August 2022 (UTC)