Talk:Walter de Clare/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 19:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy to offer a review.


 * "and founder of Tintern Abbey" Was he the founder?
 * Unclear. ODNB just states "and that Walter founded Tintern Abbey on 9 May 1131" and "baron and founder of Tintern Abbey"... which is why I worded the article that way. Heads of Religious Houses just states that Tintern was founded 9 May 1131, not by whom. Monastic Order in England doesn't say anything about the names of the founders - it dwells on the architecture almost exclusively. Monastic and Religious Orders in Britain (while having a bit I can expand with towards FAC (detail not anything more substantial)) doesn't mention any other founders but doesn't say "sole founder" either. English Church 1066-1154 just says that Tintern was founded "in the wilder areas"... which is picturesque but... Tintern isn't even mentioned in English Church Under Henry I... Ealdgyth - Talk 22:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "a Norman lord who also held Clare and Tonbridge in England" Why "also"?
 * Because Normandy is on the continent? Ealdgyth - Talk 22:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I read it as "a lord who was also a Norman"- surely there were plenty of Normans around in England at this point without land in France? Could it perhaps be rephrased to something like "a Norman lord who, in addition to estates in Normandy [or more specific], held Clare and Tonbridge"? J Milburn (talk) 23:30, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually most of the Normans rewarded with land in England also had land in Normandy also (because if they didn't, they didn't have the ability to be a knightly retainer/etc). Now reads "a Norman lord and landholder who also held" Ealdgyth - Talk 23:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Is Rohese de Clare the correct Rohese? That article (unless I'm confused...) gives different parents.
 * Blast. Wrong one. I've always gotten the Clares mixed up... unlinked. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Not nearly as reliable as the books you're citing, but this book mentions that he is buried at the abbey (and gives a different date of death). Perhaps something worth pursuing and/or adding to a footnote?
 * Ouch. Err.. no? I think if we knew for sure (rather than just guessing) ... we'd have confirmation in another source. This one dates from 1870 and appears to be what you and I would call a "tourist book" - something sold to people who came out to the abbey ruins so they could take home a souvenir. ODNB is very very good about telling where people are buried if at all known. I'd guess that the writer of the 1870 booklet just assumed that the founder would have been buried there. Note that this site (which isn't RS according to Wikipedia but is pretty decent in my experience as far as accuracy) doesn't list Walter as a burial. As far as I know, there are no cartularies or memorial books surviving from Tintern (I could be wrong - my copy of Texts and Calendars has gone walkabout somewhere in my library - but my copy of Bibliography of English History lists nothing for TIntern at all.) so we don't have the obit or anything saying who was buried there. (I've never been to the ruins - but my understanding is that there isn't much left as far as memorial stones.) Ealdgyth - Talk 23:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Happy to defer to your judgement! J Milburn (talk) 23:30, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Category:De Clare family?
 * Added. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Does the page perhaps belong in a subcategory of Category:Barons?
 * I threw him in Category:Barons in the Peerage of England - which sorta fits. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Sources are great- no real issues. I made a few fixes; please double-check them. J Milburn (talk) 19:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review. I think I've addressed most of them. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:21, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm happy that this is ready. J Milburn (talk) 09:28, 24 January 2015 (UTC)