Talk:Wang Dan (dissident)

Untitled

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was support for move to  as primary topic.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Requested move
Wang Dan (dissident) → Wang Dan — As one of the major leaders of the Tiananmen Incident in 1989, this man is far more notable than the two athletes with the same name. — supernorton 03:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Wang Dan the dissident seems to dominate a google search; Wang Dan (dissident) gets more incoming links than Wang Dan (triathlete) and Wang Dan (swimmer) combined; Wang Dan (dissident) gets more than 1,000 pageviews per month (e.g. March 2009); Wang Dan (triathlete) gets 100 or less per month (e.g. March 2009), and when Wang Dan (swimmer) was Wang Dan (swimming) it also got 100 or less pageviews per month (e.g. March 2009).  The disambig page currently at Wang Dan should move to Wang Dan (disambiguation).  Baileypalblue (talk) 01:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Support, for the same reasons. L talk 08:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

teaching in Taiwan
on this blog http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/05/taiwanese-should-support-democracy-in-china/ they say that Wang Dan is teaching in Taiwan, not a resident of the US98.246.146.24 (talk) 16:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Recent edits of Wang Dan
Anonymous users, please explain why you want to change the article. I want to work with you, but we need to obey Wikipedia policy. If you feel claims in the article are false, or if you feel your point of view is better, please provide sources! We cannot use Wikipedia to conduct original research...all information in the article should be cited from somewhere else. If you have questions, please discuss here instead of editing the article right away. Let's come to a consensus.

Joren (talk) 12:49, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I have requested administrator attention here.Joren (talk) 13:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Wiki has become a political propagada machine hijacked by Wang Dan. If he is so great, why did President Ma of Taiwan refused to meet him in June 2009! We should also print what Taiwan newspapers published about Wang Dan. Wiki has been regligent in printing only one side of Wang Dan's story.

In Taiwan he drew lots of criticism so much so that President Ma refused to meet him. Recently www.antimoon.com quoted "Taiwanese people are against anti- China's pro-democracy activists"

In accordance with Taiwan's UN newspaper(聯合報),there are many people in Taiwan who have the negative feeling against China's overseas pro-democracy organizations, especially against one of leaders of these organization: Wang Dan.

It said most pro-democracy activists like to cheat money from Taiwanese people instead of loving democracy. Wang Dan, the one of the suspects who is intervening in Taiwan's former president Chen Shui-Bian's corrupt scandals. it said Chen gave Wang Dan's money for buying gay's parfume or stuffs or clothes. Chen also gave Wang Dan for buying certificate of the degree of Harvard University in History Major. It is to said that Wang Dan's degree from Harvard University is fake and is a cheating stuff!

The most important thing which mentioned on Taiwan's UN newspaper is mentioned that those pro-democracy activists always cheat those people in the world that they have strong influence in China but in fact not many people know them but many civil people hate them ,especially in Taiwan because they have cheated much money from Taiwanese people!

Taiwan's NEWS:

Why are those China's overseas democratic activists getting more and more isolated and even lose the popular support completely and now only depend on Taiwan's consumption of large amount of money to raise them?

The democracy actists declares yearns for democracy, but why does their organization operate so undemocratic?

Why are those pro-democracy activists suffering from funds scandal frequently?

Why do those pro-democracy activists say they have great influence in China but instead no one knows them and many civil people especially in Taiwan hate them?

Is it worthy or beneficial for Taiwan to spend money for those pro-democracy activists to buy the degree from USA's university

Those pro-democracy activists supports Taiwan just for wanting to cheat much money from Taiwanese people.

Why did those pro-democracy activists say that China would collapse, but instead China become more and more prosperous day by day?

The Democratic activist boasted that he has the social impact, but why doesn't the public actually know them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.57.22 (talk) 13:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * At first reading, this is not convincing as a source, so I reverted the edit. These remarks need a second look at, and then some consensus can be reached. Only then should new statements be included in the text. -DePiep (talk) 13:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear anonymous user: Thank you for visiting the discussion board! I want to work with you, but you need to help us. We can't just add pages and pages of opinions...this is an encyclopedia. '''We can't accept something as fact just because you say it is. This is not a place for rumors.''' If there are specific facts that support your POV, it is of course important to include them! However, it needs to fit the tone of an encyclopedia. So... can you help with this? I think it would be great to make sure that the Wang Dan article has a neutral point of view, so if there is any way this article is biased, please let us know here. Thank you for posting here, Joren (talk) 13:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Did Ma refuse to meet with Wang Dan? Can you provide a URL to a specific article that says this?  I looked on antimoon.com, but it seems to be an English learning website!  I can't find anything about Wang Dan on there...please cite something specific.  If it is true that Ma refused to meet with him, I think that would make a great addition to the article.
 * Wikipedia is not for or against Wang Dan. Wikipedia doesn't care.  We are just an encyclopedia.  It doesn't matter if a person is for or against Wang Dan...if they don't have a source, they should not add it.  this is not a place for editorials or arguments.  Only cited facts please.
 * We don't live in Taiwan, so we don't know what "Taiwan's UN Newspaper" means. Please give us a URL to a specific article.
 * Don't remove other people's edits. We need to work together.


 * (editconflict): My second look:
 * RE: "Wiki (...) hijacked by Wang Dan": not me. The article does not even state any of his opinions, let alone a propagandistic one. If there are biographical facts incorrect, please propose an improvement.
 * RE: "President Ma of Taiwan refused to meet him": Should be published then. Was there a request for a meeting? Is the reason for the refusal published or seriously described (e.g. by journalists)? Is not on both, then it seems more like a rumour, which we cannot use here.
 * RE: "www.antimoon.com quoted "Taiwanese people are against anti- China's pro-democracy activists"":please give the link to the antimon-page, I find only pages related to speaking English. The article with that title does not exist (anymore). If reliable: could be a source and fact for this, then, on the page on Chinese dissidents?
 * RE: "degree from Harvard University is fake": Can we check this? Would be bad indeed. If verified, the fact of faking could or should be mentioned.
 * RE: "negative feeling in Taiwan for oversees ... organisatins", "cheat money": well, thats very general, and not mentioning Wang Dan. Anyhow: "negative feeling" is not usefull in an encyclopedia. We prefer verifyable facts.
 * RE: "suspects who is intervening in Taiwan's former president Chen Shui-Bian's corrupt scandals": if he is in a scandal, a former president involved: there should be sources describing this to verify?
 * RE: questions, e.g. "Why are those pro-democracy activists suffering from funds scandal frequently?" - Its not to us to solve these questions. That would be unwanted original researcch. If there are publications, researches, court-cases: then we have facts to write down here.
 * Summing up: IMO: Most entries here are not towards encyclopedic facts, but original research, rumours etc. In general if the pro-democraty-movement is having a serious presence in Taiwan, then this could be described (whatever the qualifications), in the article of the movement (not Wang Dan's here). Still: good sources needed then. And at least two statements could produce a noteworthy fact (scandal/process; Harvard fake), if we can find verifyable and reliable sources. -DePiep (talk) 14:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment I'd like to point out that not everything needs a web cite, you can use print citations, but then the issue of verification would be a problem. ηoian  ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers  22:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If it is a print citation, of course to help with verification there should be something along the lines of (for example, in the case of a newspaper) a full newspaper name, the date, the author who wrote the article, etc... as much info as possible. Joren (talk) 23:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment I can read Chinese (and translate into English for Joren et al if necessary), but there needs to be links provided. 聯合報 is United Daily News. As for Ma meeting or not meeting with WD: Ma is known to be strongly allied with Beijing, so meeting or not with WD (with whom Ma has met before) should be viewed in a political light.

As for WD's MA/PhD from Harvard being fake: Seriously, who puts this stuff out? A simple search finds record of WD being a student and degree candidate at Harvard throughout the years: 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, and 2007. That said, I'm doubtful that National Chengchi University would have hired him without relevant documentation as to his degrees and related work. L talk 05:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * RE: President Ma (Taiwan) meeting/non-meeting WD: OK it would be politicaly important, and thus mentionable here. But I think we need sources for both the invitation and the rebuke of it. Could be in a newpaper, we can handle a translation. Nor a one-sided action (not noteworthy as far as I can see) nor speculation (important - yes maybe, but WP:Original research). At this moment, we have not even one out of the two steps. So no mentioning at all, I conclude.
 * RE: Wan Dan Harvard-fake?: I pointed at that above, not to give it weight by repeating but because it is a checkable fact/nonfact. Then we check, as L did, thanx. Conclusion: not a fact, not to be mentioned.
 * Conclusion for now: from the introduced remarks in this section, none stands scrutiny. None to be mentioned in the article. Not the rumours/OR, not the two non-facts. -DePiep (talk) 11:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Is linking to Facebook pages appropriate?
Currently there's an external link to a Wang Dan fan page on Facebook. The page includes the statement in English that it is "A page setted up by a girl who likes and appericiate Wang Dan for long long time", so we know it's not official. Recently someone edited the article to include a link to what appears to be Wang Dan's personal Facebook profile (e.g. not their fan page). This edit got robo-reverted, and I was considering whether or not to restore it...after thinking about it, I'm not sure there should be any Facebook link at all.


 * Is it appropriate to link to an unofficial fan listing on Facebook?
 * Alternatively, is it appropriate to link to someone's personal Facebook profile?

My instinct is "no" on both... what do others think? Joren (talk) 03:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Note that besides the fan page, there is another Facebook page which appears to be official, since it was mentioned in a press interview with him by Radio Free Asia. See citations in article.--Larrybob (talk) 15:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Picture requested
An anonymous editor added a request for a photo. I agree... do we have any pictures of Wang Dan during the Tiananmen Square protests that we can use? Joren (talk) 07:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikileaks Board Membership
Wikileaks board membership needs verification - if you read the Wikileaks article, Mother Jones magazine says that Wikileaks listed some people on their board without permission. Nothing specific about Wang Dan. The link from Wikileaks to the page with their board info didn't work for me, but maybe it requires a login.--Larrybob (talk) 15:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Sexual orientation
Not that I have anything against them, but isn't it worth mentioning that Wang Dan is a homosexual, and was expelled from "中國人權理事會" for it?

http://diary.wenxuecity.com/diary.php?id=0&yearID=2007&monthID=5&dayID=28&c_lang=gb2312&currdate=200705&pid=43422&page=1

Don't know if it's legitimate, but here you go.

Shimo1989 (talk) 14:47, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Attempted assassination
IN the text we can read:

"While teaching a class in November 2010, a woman carrying a knife entered the lecture intending to stab Wang. He was able to remove the knife from the woman before she had a chance to stab him. He believes “this was the first time he faced what looked like an attempt on his life.” The woman had allegedly been stalking Wang for three years.[11]" But we have no information in the text about the backgronund of the women who tried to stab him (expect that she was after him for several years). Who is this women? Was there a lwasuit? Is she from mainland? or Taiwan. I think this is an important information. ++--84.73.123.149 (talk) 20:03, 31 December 2012 (UTC)--++

2023 sexual harassment allegations
According to Radio Free Asia, on June 2nd, 2023, a man named Lee Yuan-chun (李元钧), accused Wang Dan of sexual harassment on Facebook. According to Lee Yuan-chun, in 2014 in Flushing, Wang Dan kissed him, attempted to rape him, and later continued to say sexual things. On Facebook, Wang Dan wrote that this did not happen. Li Yuan-chun told Radio Free Asia that he has some evidence related to the allegation.

Other sources: China Times Sanlih

Later, according to multiple news media, a Master of Taiwan's Tsinghua University also accused Wang Dan of sexual harassment.

Sources: Apple Daily China Press United Daily News

There was another reply by Wang Dan: source: HK01 CTS AAAAA143222 (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Attempted rape is assault not harrassment so Im changing the category name Softlem (talk) 11:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)