Talk:War in Abkhazia (1992–1993)/Archives/2024/February

A claim that "Significant ethnic cleansing accompanied by atrocities occurred on both sides"
This source is used for the claim that "Significant ethnic cleansing accompanied by atrocities occurred on both sides". But the source itself does not says anything like that. There are only 2 mentions of ethnic cleansing, first one: Both parties have accused each other of engaging in "ethnic cleansing," a term that has gained currency during the war in Bosnia. and second one, on page 51, claim of Russian soldier that "ethnic cleansing" was occurring in Tkvarcheli. So, this claim about "both sides committing ethnic cleansing" should be removed and it should be added that both sides (Russian/Abkhaz and Georgian) accused each other of ethnic cleansing.

Moreover, the term "ethnic cleansing" has its own definition, not every violation of human right is described as ethnic cleansing. The ethnic cleansing of Georgia has occured in the region, which was recognized by the international organizations Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, United Nations and etc. No "ethnic cleansing by both sides" was recognized by any human rights organization (besides partisan Russian-sponspored ones maybe, which cannot be used because of NPOV rule). I will remove this false claim that "significant ethnic cleansing accompanied by atrocities occurred on both sides" - Bailer99 (talk)
 * Since there is a specific section about ethnic cleansing in the article within bigger section about human rights violations in general, information specifically about ethnic cleansing has been moved there, while information about the general human rights violations (not classified as ethnic cleansing) has been left in the beginning of the bigger section. - Bailer99 (talk) 01:20, 17 February 2024 (UTC)


 * The HRW report does mention it without calling it an ethnic cleansing explicitly
 * Page 22
 * The pattern that emerges from refugee testimony taken by Human Rights Watch is one of gross intimidation by Georgian forces for the purpose of terrorizing, robbing and driving the Abkhaz population out of their homes. While the Georgian forces appeared to be operating under no particular command, they did seem to have a clear agenda. They roamed through the city at will, especially at night, looting and pillaging.
 * Page 27
 * In addition to extensive acts of random abuse and personal profiteering by fighters, the conflict in Abkhazia has also been characterized by hostage-taking and forced movement of population groups ... there were efforts alternatively to confine ethnic population groups to ... areas controlled by forces of another ethnic group
 * So the old wording in the article is indeed not supported by sources, but we should mention that Georgian forces absolutely did expel the Abkhaz from the territories they controlled. Alaexis¿question? 13:29, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Writing in the article that ethnic cleansing occured on both sides, inferring that from HRW report while it does not says that would be an original research.
 * The fact that displacement and other violations occured on both side, is already mentioned by the article btw:
 * The violations accompanied by atrocities occurred on both sides with Abkhazians displaced from Georgian-held territory and vice versa. Many human rights abuses, principally looting, pillage and other outlaw acts, along with hostage-taking and other violations of humanitarian law, were committed by all sides throughout Abkhazia.
 * The article should not go beyond this and it should not just throw around term "ethnic cleansing" by claiming that "ethnic cleansing occured by both sides" since that is not supported by sources.
 * "Ethnic cleansing" is a specific term, just "displacement" may not be enough for it to be described as an ethnic cleansing, whether it is systemic policy, intentional (rather than consequential) may also be important, and we have a clear case of numerous organizations convincingly saying that ethnic cleansing of Georgian people has occured. As it has been clarified by sources:
 * The Abkhaz side has been singled out as responsible for deliberate, as opposed to consequential, displacement carried out as a military, strategic and political objective in itself. - Bailer99 (talk) 18:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)