Talk:Warcraft/Archive 1

Glad
I'm glad this page has started growing. I posted a map, and I'll write short summaries of the continents and etc. UED77 19:07, 2004 Jul 6 (UTC)

Influences to the Games & Derived from the Games
I think it's important to note that Warcraft & Starcraft derived a lot of the army styles, tactics, abilities, from Warhammer & W40k. The over-bulked deformed graphics of the humans and orcs is straight from the WH world. Even the way combat was resolved is very similar to the WH system (except the values were increased).

WC I/II/III & SC are Blizzards interpretation of a miniature-based strat/tact game in real-time.

What other influences are there?

Wasn't WC the first one to introduce the multi-click "annoyance" responses from units? Orc 6th click: "Will you stop touching MEEEEEE!!!!!"

--Duemellon 17:42, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * There are also some D&D influences, especially in WC3. Some magic items are taken straight from the Dungeon Master's Guide. Ausir 01:51, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure of the details but I understand that Warcraft: Orcs v Humans was initially meant to be a Warhammer game, but the deal was aborted and Blizzard fixed it up to look like something more original. I can't find any sources on this, but if I locate anything I'll add this. Since WAR is being released shortly (or has it already?) the whole "X ripped off Y" thing is getting really out of hand. Thee darcy (talk) 16:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization of the C
Minor point, but there seems to be some inconsistency on the various WarCraft pages as to whether or not the C should be capitalized. See for example, the links to the games at the bottom of the WarCraft II entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_II  the StarCraft links all have capital C's but the WarCrafts don't. As far as I know, Blizzard released the games with capital C's. User:24.103.176.173


 * There is no confusion. Warcraft is released with a lowercase c. StarCraft has a capital C. This is confirmed on Blizzard's website.  &mdash;Lowellian (talk)   01:29, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * This is old, but I will respond for anyone else. WarCraft and WarCraft Adventures were both officially spelt with a capital C, but when Warcraft 2 was released they stopped using it. - User:UnlimitedAccess
 * Technically, the trade name should be WarCraft, because that is how it is spelled on the logo. But, Blizzard Entertainment has made it so that it is marketed as Warcraft.  Of Starcraft, I do not know.  Epithanyseeker (talk) 23:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Small discrepency
I have a few questions about this article. One, is there any proof that Goblins originated on Draenor? It is clear that Goblins now live wholly in Azeroth, on the island of Undermine primarily but can be found other places. Secondly, I beleive that Draenor was once a temprate zone, but since the Dark Portal messed things up, I think now it's a barren red rocky zone. If anyone can find answers and proof, post back here. Omni gamer 21:48, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I don't remember the origins of goblins exactly, but for your other question: Draenor was always referred to as the Red World, whatever that might mean exactly. See map of Draenor in WC2 manual (or at least WC2BNE). The ingame tileset sure seemed pretty harsh from WC2:BTDP. It was relatively barren and red. The only vegetation seemed to be giant tree-like mushrooms, from which I deduce that the soil is fertile. But let's not forget that Draenor might not only include the Hellfire peninsula and lands in its immediate vicinity. Perhaps Draenor does have climate zones, we just have no knowledge of them. However, now that the portals have shattered it, only pieces of the Hellfire peninsula remain, which is pretty much a desert, altho the mushrooms do show up occasionally. UED77 06:00, 2004 Dec 19 (UTC)


 * I'm going to check my game manuals from WCII when I get home, but I'm pretty sure that the goblins, like the trolls, were native to Azeroth and joined up with the Horde because 1) General demi-human predjudice against greenskins 2) They thought the horde would win. Also, Draenor has it's own article, which is more complete than the section here. I will probably merge the articles when i get a chance. Jaxal1 18:18, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think any of the literature addresses it, but within WoW, I have read a book that clearly stated that Draenor used to be a world with grassy plains - Mulgore comes to mind in the description. If anyone wants to check, I am pretty certain the book was found in Scholomance very early on.  It claimed that the orc's demon magic TURNED the planet nasty.  The soil may or may not have been red, but they had grass. theflyingorc 22:16, 07 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * theflyingorc is right. Paraphrased from the worldofwarcraft.com site's lore pages:

Home to the shamanistic, clan-based orcs and the peaceful draenei, Draenor was as idyllic as it was vast. The noble orc clans roamed the open prairies and hunted for sport, while the inquisitive draenei built crude cities within the world's towering cliffs and peaks.

Kil'jaeden the Deceiver enthralled the elder orc shaman, Ner'zhul. Using the cunning shaman as his conduit, the demon spread battle lust and savagery throughout the orc clans. Before long, the spiritual race was transformed into a bloodthirsty people. Kil'jaeden then urged Ner'zhul and his people to take the last step: to give themselves over entirely to the pursuit of death and war.

Frustrated by Ner'zhul's resistance, Kil'jaeden searched for another orc who would deliver his people into the Legion's hands. The clever demonlord finally found the willing disciple he sought - Ner'zhul's ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan. Kil'jaeden promised Gul'dan untold power in exchange for his utter obedience. The young orc became an avid student of demonic magic and developed into the most powerful mortal warlock in history. He taught other young orcs the arcane arts and strove to eradicate the orcs' shamanistic traditions. Gul'dan showed a new brand of magic to his brethren, a terrible new power that reeked of doom.

As more and more orcs began to wield warlock magics, the gentle fields and streams of Draenor began to blacken and fade. Over time, the vast prairies the orcs had called home for generations withered away, leaving only red barren soil. The demon energies were slowly killing the world.

Far, far later, after the epic invasions of warcraft one and two, and in the warcraft 2 expansion:

Ner'zhul finally opened his portals to other worlds, but he did not foresee the terrible price he would pay. The portals' tremendous energies began to tear the very fabric of Draenor apart.

Ner'zhul and his loyal Shadowmoon clan passed through the largest of the newly created portals, as massive volcanic eruptions began to break Draenor's continents apart. The burning seas rose up and roiled the shattered landscape as the tortured world was finally consumed in a massive, apocalyptic explosion.

Even later, after the invasion of warcraft 3 and in the warcraft 3 expansion:

Knowing that Kil'jaeden would not be pleased with his failure to destroy the Frozen Throne, Illidan fled to the barren dimension known as Outland: the last remnants of Draenor, the orcs' former homeworld.

Outland is a location in WoW, very bleak. Basically, it went from paradise to red, dying wasteland to blasted, barely-there wasteland. LieAfterLie (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Map of Azeroth
I think the map of Azeroth overlaid over Earth looks nice. However, is there any evidence at all that Azeroth has the same size as Earth? As far as I know, there is none; indeed, from World of WarCraft, it seems much, much smaller than Earth. Therefore, the map is misleading. So if no one can provide evidence that Azeroth is the same size as Earth, I am going to remove that map in a few days. &mdash;Lowellian (talk)  01:36, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)


 * I was the one who originally created this map, but I took it down not soon after, because of the same reason. Actually I was surprised as I saw it reappear on this page. Unfortunately, there is no information whatsoever about the size of Planet Azeroth, except what the actual gameplay of World of Warcraft suggests. And while I see that the game should be treated as canon (official source), it should be kept in mind that Azeroth seems smaller because the technology is not yet available to design a virtual world the size of an entire planet ;) But this taken with the discrepancies between climates at what are thought to be same latitudes lead to two possible conclusions: Either all the maps of Azeroth that were ever published are deliberately inaccurate in a sense, much like colonial-age maps of Earth, or the laws that govern our world simply do not apply in Azeroth. Yes, I know I'm taking this just a little bit too seriously, but that's what it boils down to. I will take the map down once again. I value the intensions of the unknown contributor who put it up, but since there is no fact behind it, it has to go. UED77 06:00, 2004 Dec 19 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's a safe bet to assume that our world and World of Warcraft follow very different "laws". Trying to use our world's physics and climate to compare just does not apply, and even if you tried to argue that they did, there's always the issue of magic...Realitychecksme (talk) 07:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Garona
Blizzard before they released Warcraft III, released a whole stack of promotional images, one of them was this one to the right. A lot of people online have said this is an image of Garona but I cant get any confirmation of that, does anyone know whether it's just a random female Orc or really is Garona? Thanks - UnlimitedAccess 23:28, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

---

The link is 404 now. Also there used to be a Garona in World of Warcraft beta, albeit short lived. Pics? ~PG

Draenor "humans"
Apparently Garona was changed to half-Draenei/half-Orc. So technically, since she's not half-human, there shouldn't be any humans on Draenor. It was confirmed by Caydiem on WoW forums.

While some say that Garona was changed to half Draenei half orc, my friend asked Metzen about this and Metzen said that we'll still need to find out. Seeing as Metzen has greater authority than Caydiem, we can guess that her race is still unknown. Mecheon --144.137.44.60 01:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Tabletop games
World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game is the successor to the Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game series (essentially it's version 2.0) thus I removed refernces to WC:RPG, since WoW:RPG is backwards compatible. As for Warcraft: the Board Game and World of Warcraft: the Board Game, they are two separate games, as shown here:

Warcraft: the Board Game

World of Warcraft: the Board Game --Kaziel 19:50, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Corrupted Blood
This article has been added to the AfD, please go to Articles for deletion/Corrupted Blood and give your vote on the subject. Thank you. Havok (T/C/c) 22:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Universe vs. universe
I think it should be Warcraft universe and not Warcraft Universe (as the main article that is, seeing as I know it redirects). Any thoughts? Havok (T/C/c) 07:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused
Is WoWWiki dedicated only to World of Warcraft or Warcraft in general? Pece Kocovski 06:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Generally, it's just WoW-related (hence the name), but some general Warcraft info is there as well. RobertM525 01:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

So is Wiki better for Warcraft info or Is WoWWiki better? Pece Kocovski 02:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * That is like comparing apples to oranges. I think Wikipedia has less "bias" and more "encyclopedic" content, while WoW Wiki is more of a strategy guide. They are both good in their own way. Havok (T/C/c) 06:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * WoWWiki is largely a strategy guide for the MMORPG, however, their "lore" section, infomation from written sources and the games, is quite extensive, and goes into deeper detail than the information here. --Ragestorm 02:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The About WoWWiki page (on WoWWiki) should answer this question quite well now :) It covers all of Warcraft now and, as Ragestorm says, it's more in-depth than wikipedia. I would disagree with the 'bias' comment, especially these days. Kirkburn 04:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Basically if you're familiar with World of Warcraft, WoWWiki is a more helpful resource, as it has much more in-depth, game relevant information and guides, as well as actual player posts. Being that World of Warcraft actually has a more dynamic and actively changing storyline, it is thus less reliable than say, the Warcraft RTS games, as far as the lore is concerned.  The RTS games are pretty much scripted, in the MMORPG World of Warcraft sometimes follows different story arcs and players can affect events (e.g. either faction can raid the opposing faction's cities and kill their leaders, they can kill legendary dragons, etc.)  Realitychecksme (talk) 07:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Locations in WoW universe
Just a note to watch out for. Someone appears to have it out for the location pages, as earlier he targeted almost all of them for deletion, under the definition of "Game Guide." These articles are unsourced, and a few of them are scant on information. But for the most part, I believe large portions of these articles constitute an encyclopedic reference to the *mythology* behind the geography of warcraft, not a playing guide. Based on that, I reverted the tags, but be aware that they may soon be targetted for a deletion discussion. --Josh


 * Not just the locations pages. Wikipedia is a hostile place for World of Warcraft in general. See WoWWiki and don't waste your time here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 (talk) 19:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Troll links
The troll pages have been merged into one page, detailing all of the different subsets. The links here have been updated to reflect this.

09:37, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Alterac Valley (prod) 09:37, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Kirin Tor (prod) 09:37, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Dalaran (prod) 09:36, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Caer Darrow (prod) 09:36, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) The Scarlet Monastery (prod) (top) 09:36, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Undercity (prod) 09:35, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Khaz Modan (prod) 09:35, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Gnomeregan (prod) 09:35, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Azeroth (world) (prod) 09:34, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Ironforge (prod) 09:33, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Quel'Thalas (prod) 09:33, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Azeroth (kingdom) (prod) 09:33, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Dark Portal (prod) 09:32, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Molten Core (prod) (top) 09:32, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Stormwind (prod) 09:31, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) The Sunken Temple (prod) 09:31, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Deadmines (prod) 09:31, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Blackfathom Deeps (prod) 09:30, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Azuremyst Isles (Redirect to Locations_in_the_Warcraft_Universe - there's way more info on this location there) (top) 09:28, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Orgrimmar (prod) 09:27, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Thunder Bluff (prod) 09:27, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Darnassus (prod) 09:26, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Northrend (prod)

In universe writing
This article could be good, if it was not written in an in-universe style. I'd like to correct it, but English is not my first language and I would do mistakes/inelegant sentences. There is not much to change. "In Warcraft 2, Draenor is descripted as..." or "The manual of Beyond the Dark Portal says that Azeroth..." etc etc... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.70.252.111 (talk) 12:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I think that the in-universe writing contributes to the understandability and simplicity and detail of the universe article. It eliminates the need for repetitive and space-consuming notations like you refer to. After all, that's what citations are for, right? Warcraft is a fictional universe with a number of role-playing elements. In-universe writing is the perfect way to depict most EU's. LieAfterLie (talk) 04:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

whitespace
There is whitespace after "Azeroth" in IE7. Can someone fix it? --71.121.159.122 06:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

This article is a mess
Looking at the Geography section here isn't very nice on the eyes, the squashed text between the Contents and "Warcraft Universe" especially. Otherwise this is just full of meaningless lists which could be reorganised into informative paragraphs better describing the geography and locations of the listed items.

The list of Cities and Towns is pretty random also, Darrowshire is a minor city but all the other small towns are ommited? Much of the rest of the article is similar to this with random places and races ommited. I think many of these lists can be combined.

I'd really like to rewrite the geography section, mainly because I spent alot of time playing world of warcraft and i was always interested in the lore/geography of the game.

However what do i put as my sources? Can i just say "The following games and their instruction manuals: World of Warcraft, Warcraft 1..." and so on? I'm also worried about Origonal Reasearch.

Anyway i guess i'll make a test edit somewhere and see what people think :)

No mention of Blizzard?
Anyone else find it weird that Blizzard isn't mentioned anywhere in this article?--Mullon 01:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Warhammer, D&D, and Warcraft
I believe that it should have been commented that many stuff of the Warcraft universe has been taken from both Warhammer and several D&D settings (in fact, it's said that Blizzard offered the first Warcraft game to Games Workshop as a game based on the Warhammer universe. Basically, they (GW) said "no" and we know what happened after. Also, in the preface of the Warcraft RPG manual of monsters -the one of the first RPG game, not the one based on WoW- Metzen recognizes they were heavy D&D players and that they took elements of there). Examples: the dwarven riflemen, who existed before in Warhammer, the high elves who seem to have been inspired by their Warhammer equivalent, creatures like the gnolls, and winks (Silvermoon exists also in "Forgotten Realms", the name "Sylvanas" probably was derived from Dragonlance's Sylvanesti, the interesting similarities between night elves and Dragonlance's Kalinesti, and other examples). The Warcraft setting is quite nice and i like it (if not, i'd haven't bought the RPG), but it's far from being original (PS: sorry for having to re-edite so many times my comment, but i'm a newbie).

-Does it really matter wether it is original or not? Anyway a few of those things like Gnolls were from real world legends not           just from other games - Joeking16 16:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I assume any word or name starting with "Syvlan" ultimately originates with the Latin Sylvus. A lot of the elements in both these games from AD&D, and before that Tolkien, and various myths, legends & folktales before that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thee darcy (talk • contribs) 16:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Alot of the things in Warhammer were also put into WoW, and When Warhammer online comes out, im positive there will be some WoW jargon in there too. Who cares, to be honest, its a good game, i enjoy playing it, and I think everyone has that one MMORPG they like. Warhammer and WoW will probably go side by side in the MMORPG area. Warhammer will be more PVP based while WoW will be PVE/PVP based, there, everyone is happy. Grimreape513 (talk) 17:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Major rewrite upcoming
I am working on majorly rewriting this page to bring it more in line with the world as presented currently in World of Warcraft and to flesh out the sub categories and give them information as well as lists. Kestrana 19:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

K'aresh
Just added K'aresh to the known planets in the Warcraft Universe since it was not only mentioned in several different conversations, it is also related to a majority of the Ethereal storyline which makes K'aresh a more notable place as it is than, say, Xoroth. - Russ

What happened to Organizations in the Warcraft universe
I noticed that the article "Organizations in the Warcraft universe" was there any perticular reason for this? Whoops forgot to sign my post. Joeking16 15:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose creating article Warcraft (series)
There needs to be an article covering all of Warcraft. -- Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I would of thought that this page should cover all of Warcraft, the games, the books and everything else. Joeking16 (talk) 10:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * From the way this article is written, it seems as if this article was intended to be about the fictional universe in which Warcraft is set, not the franchise that is Warcraft.

So what do people think? Make this article into the franchise article with a section for the story, or make a separate article called the Warcraft series to cover the franchise? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:32, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Since this article is currently meant to about the fictional universe, there doesn't seem to be any major reason not to keep it that way. Judge is right that a series article would be a good idea. Might as well create it and see how it and this one turn out after a while. If one or neither are not doing well, we can simply merge them together down the road. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC))


 * I swear there used to be a series article.... I really don't understand what happened to all this stuff. See my section below. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LieAfterLie (talk • contribs) 04:41, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge Quel'Thalas here
The Quel'Thalas article is currently up for deletion, and we're trying to find an appropriate place to selectively merge its more notable content to. Any thoughts? (Guyinblack25 talk 16:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC))

Warcraft being a Warhammer game
Is there any evidence of Gamesworkshop ever talk to Blizzard about a game? I have seen this claim many times but nobody ever provided any proof. The claim is made dubious by the fact that there seems to be many differnet varients of it.Chovin (talk) 03:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)