Talk:Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War – Dark Crusade

Untitled
i only saw the "Spoilers end here."...

Ending
When you complete the campaign you get a zoom out of Kronus panning to another planet that also appears to be at war, before the screen fades to black and the relic logo and the word 2007. Presumably another expansion or update. Should this go in the article?

No, I don't think it should... I've removed it. Those planets could be planets from the same system, or even the two planets from Winter Assault and the original Dawn of War.

then what does the 2007 mean?


 * I think that signifies the Soulstorm expansion, or is just another planet that is also being fought for by some races. Don't include it, though, as that's only speculation. Master of Puppets Care to share?  01:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Haha first guy was right. And that was before they announced Soulstorm. Kudos to you, the rest of you sucked serious ass. 217.209.112.38 (talk)

Faction Endings
Has there been any discussion of adding the endings of each particular faction? I've played through 4 of them, and could do fairly good synopses of each, unless thats already been voted down to put on the site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.64.2.77 (talk) 14:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of faction endings; at the moment, suffice it to say that the plot unfolds depending on which faction you're playing as. Master of Puppets Care to share?  01:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

slight inconsitency with Necrons
In the entry for Necron Lord of Kronus it says that "as more Necrons reawaken and continue their Great Work on nearby worlds", the way that whole paragraph is phrased sounds like the Great Work refers to exterminating all life, that is wrong and I'm wondering if the game itself says that (i.e. did game designers got it wrong or was it simply poorly phrased in this article). The Great Work actually is an overarching plan of Necrons to place a network of special obelisks throughout the galaxy to cut it off from Immaterium (i.e. the Warp) to kill all the psionic powers in the galaxy, which is the only thing that can hurt necron gods, the C'tan. Necrons don't want to kill everyone in the galaxy as the C'tan need other races as herds of cattle to feed on. (this comes from Games Workshop's official Codex: Necrons). Can someone with knowledge of what is actually said in the game make a correction and note if the game itself is inconsitent if it is. Keije 01:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * This is specifically mentioned in multiple places in the game and yes, it is contrary to W40K story. The game mentions the necrons desire to destroy all life in the galaxy and does not discuss their actual "great work". Maybe we should just note the inconsistency? The writing seems to be right out of the game description so it's hard to call it wrong even if it doesn't match W40K story. Mosc 21:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

reception section
I just added the sectfact flag to that section, specifically the new last paragraph. There's a lot of assertions in there that need references- pretty much the entire thing. --DarthBinky 14:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Considering that the issues mentioned in that section are nowhere to be found on the game forums, it is probably some frustrated user. The game has no copy protection at all and the box very clearly mentions "PC-DVD" on top of it and "DVD-ROM Drive" in the requirements section. I am deleting this. 62.1.166.196 20:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The original version of the box released in the US says 4xCD-ROM (I have it here in front of me), yet its clearly a DVD-ROM inside. Its just a small error in the system requirements and not something of too much note though as it has a big 'PC DVD-ROM' logo on the front cover and across the top of the box anyway... there was quite some fuss about it on the official relic[news] forums when it first came out though. --Quigabyte 00:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Other Updates
I think that it is somewhat misleading to say that "The Chaos Lord has a different dialogue altogether", as, if my memory serves me correctly, most (possibly all) of his comments could be heard on the original game. Someone with access to bot of the games should check this.


 * Some of the Chaos Lord's dialogue is indeed missing in DC when compared with the original DoW, such as phrases like "Back off!" and "We play it your way- for now...". Not sure that entirely justifies the comment "different dialogue altogether", though. Ifitmovesnukeit 18:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Notable Characters: Eliphas the Inheritor
After the Word Bearers defeat the Blood Ravens, the in-game explanation says that the victory is dedicated to The Warmaster Abaddon, not Tzeentch. The defeat of the Necrons is the one dedicated to Tzeentch. At least it did in my copy. Can anyone else verify this?

I've changed the section to omit the references to the Thousand Sons as these were not mentioned in the game. Oderic 05:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Honor Guard
Should there be a list of the different units? The wiki does mention them and gives some fairly misleading information about what they are. Should we just list the 12 honor guard for each race? I think that information would be useful to players of the game but I'm not sure that is the intent of the article. --Mosc 22:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No, as that is uncyclopedic. Maybe we can get a separate article for units, though, as there are probably enough to warrant their own article.

Who Did Eliphas
I'm glad to see the Voice Cast section is growing well. One major problem is that it doesn't say who did Eliphas the Inheritor. Who did? 67.160.13.149 04:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

same guy who did gabreal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.154.76 (talk) 17:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ripped in half?
I have owned three separate copies of Dark Crusade--two of them from the US, one from the UK, no less--and all of them, without exception, featured a Space Marine being impaled by a Necron Wraith in the opening movie. Now, the article, as it stands as of June 27, says that this only occurs in the PAL version (which is a misnomer, as PAL and NTSC apply to televisions, not to PC games, but I'm going to assume here that the original writer meant to indicate copies of the game from PAL regions), and that the US version's opening cinematic features the Wraith tearing the Space Marine in half. I've not seen this in any of my copies, nor my friends' copies. I have, however, seen it on GameTrailers.com listed as the official opening cinematic. Could someone clarify this a little bit? Is the rip from an old edition of the game and the impalement just from new ones or what?

ChampionHyena 19:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Odd. I think it was presumed that the opening cinematic was edited to remove the "tearing Space Marine in half" bit in order to lower the rating in other, presumably non-American markets. But is that really the case? Nerva 15:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed it is *not* the case, all versions were edited the same way, GameTrailers is wrong. I have corrected the article. --Quigabyte 00:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just remembered though that the demo had the original cinematic in it, only once the game was released was the cinematic replaced with the censored version. --Quigabyte 00:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Necron Information
Why was the necron information section removed from the main article? It was removed with the edit "26 August 2007 144.137.94.210 →Necrons". I thought it might have been moved to a subsection (if that was the case the tau should be moved too), but I can't find any links for if it it was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.110.98 (talk) 15:26, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

How is it a Seven-Way War?
Are the Imperial Guards fighting against the Space Marines? If so, why? Do they think they're both chaos/heresy-tainted or something. MonkStar 05:52, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. The Space Marines ordered the IG to evacuate the planet, who was ordered by the Adeptus Mechanicus to protect the fallen titan at all costs. Since the IG won't leave, the Blood Ravens have to drive them off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.64.2.77 (talk) 14:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite
I rewrote the article; primarily the new races section, which I tried to simplify as much as I could. I also rewrote the campaign section and removed the New Units section. If anyone thinks of anything else we could do it improve this, let me know. Thanks! Master of Puppets Care to share?  05:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, as is happens I'm one of the Assessment Captains over at WP:VG. I've just finished assessing Nintendogs, and as I'm still in Assessment Mode I'll give you some Assessment-esque hints...

This article is still Start-class: the good news is that it means that a lot of the things which need doing to get to B-Class and beyond are quite simple, the bad news is that there's quite a bit of it. Your recent edits were definitely a step in the right direction: Wikipedia is not a game guide, so in-depth descriptions of aspects of the game such as the races are a big no-no. Age of Mythology is a Featured Article which also describes a game with several races. Though Dark Crusade is an expansion pack rather than a big game in itself, you can probably learn a good number of things by looking at that article.
 * When looking through the article several things stick out at me: the first is a lack of screenshots. You could probably add one or two (remember that adding two screenshots showing two different aspects of the game will always be better than adding ten screenshots showing two aspects of the game), and any you do add will require fair use rationales. The fair use raionale for the box art raises a few eyebrows: for one, it does need to be of a lower resolution (the longest side wouldn't need to be bigger than 350-400 pixels long) and the template hasn't been filled out correctly.
 * This article needs more references - see WP:CITE. Current references aren't formatted correctly: the in-line citation method is preferred over simply listing them at the end - see WP:CITE.
 * Video game articles usually take a particular structure:
 * Gameplay section: what are the game mechanics? How do you complete objectives? What different game modes are there? Elements of the Races and Campaign section will go here.
 * Story section: this is where information regarding the game's setting, characters and plot go. Be careful in this section and the Gameplay section to not go into too much detail per WP:NOT.
 * Development section: this is where information concerning the game's development cycle goes. The development section at Age of Mythology is a bit light, but gives you the general idea of what to include.
 * Reception section: give an overview of what critics thought of the game. This is also where information on awards received comes.
 * External links section: this section is fine as it is.

So that's quite a bit! But seriously, if you did all of that you'd have a pretty sweet article. If you're ever stuck, have a look at other articles at WP:VG and/or ask here, and I'll be more than happy to help. Hope this helps, Una LagunaTalk 08:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks a billion for those tips. If I take screenshots in-game can I use them under the fair use license on this page?
 * Just a few questions, also;
 * What would I reference? Aside from E3 previews and whatnot, most of the information is pulled from the game.
 * You need to cite pretty much everything, using secondary sources to show the game is notable. Use of primary sources, such as the game and its manual, should only be used as a last resort. Una LagunaTalk 07:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Gameplay section: as this game is an expansion of Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War, it has the same gameplay mechanics, which are explained there. Should I add them to this page regardless?
 * As this is an expansion pack, you can say the gameplay is very similar to that of Dawn of War, linking to that article, but still giving a brief overview, then going into slightly more detail about the gameplay unique to this expansion. Una LagunaTalk 07:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Story section: The campaign of this game is not a regular linear campaign, therefore it has no plot. Well, there is a plot, but it varies depending on which of the seven races you pick. Should I make a note in the Campaign section about the various plots and describe how they are formed by the game?
 * In which case, there's little point in having a plot section. Simply noting that the game has a non-linear campaign should be enough, noting anything which is significant (eg does each race have their own set of cutscenes?). Una LagunaTalk 07:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Development: I'd have to perform some research to find this, I guess.
 * Reception: should I read over reviews from various critics and see if I can spot a pattern? For example, "race A is overbalanced" as criticism, "balanced races" as a compliment? I'd probably just say "The game was well recieved, with critics citing..." and go on from there.
 * Have a look at some of the articles at WP:VG. Looking through the articles and learning by example will probably be more effective than me trying to explain it. You basically need to summarise what critics have said: overall how did it do (use Metacritic for this one), which good points were identified, what were the criticisms, were there any exceptions to this consensus? Una LagunaTalk 07:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, is there any way to, say, create a page (List of races from Warhammer 40000 games and fill it with all seven races? This would enable me to shorten the Race section on all articles, and expand on it in there. Or is that uncyclopedic?
 * Unless there's a really significant difference in a race's method of gameplay, you'd probably be better off just stating that different races have different units, strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you need to have an entire section devoted to the races. Una LagunaTalk 07:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the help! I'll get started as soon as I have some time. Cheers, Master of Puppets Care to share?  16:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll see what's doable if I condense the races into a short summary. Thanks. Master of Puppets Care to share?  13:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Three weeks on and I realise that I neglected to give additional comments; "whoops" doesn't quite cover it. Having glanced over the article in around thirty seconds (and forgotten what's already been discussed above) I'll list some points which need fixing:
 * The main thing is sourcing: you can use reviews, the manual, features and game guides which come from reliable sources.
 * Might want to fix the formatting of the review score table to something like Empires: Dawn of the Modern World. You don't need the Comments column - just put 87% (34 reviews) for the aggregates.
 * Removed comments, also threw the reviews table to the right side.


 * It would be a good idea to turn the bulleted references to in-line citation thingies - this will allow for more specific sourcing.
 * This is a bit of a problem; I didn't add those references, and I'm not quite sure what they are citing, as I don't have those texts. I'll try to figure that out, I guess.

That's all that immediately jumps out at me and I can be bothered to write down. I'm going to get some sleep and give a more robust list of things which need doing tomorrow. This is currently a high-level Start: simply having more references would elevate you to B. Una LagunaTalk 23:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, currently most of the in-line citation thingies are not formatting consistent with WP:MOS. It should be new content "[breathed] new life into the game".[10], for example: no space between the punctuation and the note (game".[10] instead of game". [10]) and coming after the punctuation (game".[10] instead of game"[10].).

Now for some more...
 * Lead section needs some re-working: the second and third paragraphs are too short, and there's no information regarding the game's reception. One sentence ought to cover it, something like "the game was generally well-received, praised for its non-linear campaign structure" or something.
 * I had The expansion was praised as an "excellent real-time strategy game" [10], with its overhauled single-player campaign, stabilized multiplayer and additional features. in there before, I guess you missed it. I tried to integrate that with the strong points and flaws of the game to give the section a bit more flow; is that a good thing?


 * Development seems a bit light, but if that's really all there is then it'll probably do.
 * I couldn't really find much on that. Would it be possible to email the developers and see if they have any information they could share?


 * One- and two-sentence paragraphs are generally frowned upon as they hurt the quality of the prose - avoid where possible.
 * The Awards should be sourced and converted to regular prose. Either tag it on to another paragraph or find some more awards it won to beef it up as a paragraph in its own right.
 * I added it to reception.

Actually, that's not nearly as many as I thought I would've found. That's a good thing, I guess... Una LagunaTalk 17:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, good to know that I'm not butchering the article. Thanks again for the help, it is truly much-appreciated. I'll try to fix it up; care to check back every once in a while and update me? Cheers, Master of Puppets Care to share?  23:09, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

List of units in the Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War series
I'm creating an article at List of units in the Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War series. If anyone feels like they have some time, feel free to come by and help out in creating it. I'm aiming to make it as comprehensive as the List of units in the Age of Mythology series, which I'm using as a guideline. Anyway, I look forward to seeing anyone there! Cheers. Master of Puppets Care to share?  00:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Mods
I don't think mods should have be mentioned; almost every game nowadays has a plethora of user-made mods trailing it. I'd suggest that the article remain only about the official expansion. Thoughts? Master of Puppets Care to share?  02:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Ladder ranking system
Source number 25

All of the races have won over 50% of their games. So, on average, 54% of games were won and 46% were lost. Isn't this impossible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.1.34.131 (talk) 05:35, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Reception section
"also, one critic found that the AI never attacked his homebase" - this is completely incorrect - Space marines attacked my home province. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.154.133.219 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 11 January 2008


 * They attacked mine, too, but apparently not for some critics. The article is just saying the flaws critics found in the game. Cheers, Master of Puppets   Call me MoP! ☺  23:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Souce for the cannon ending
I was reading the article and saw "Canonically, the Imperial Faction (notably the Imperial Guard) recieves victory following the events on Kronus." Where was this stated? Was something said about this in Soulstorm? 12.202.236.233 (talk) 05:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I say we delete that section. We can't know the canon ending because Soulstorm isn't out yet (and even that might not give us it). All we can be 100% sure of is the survival of one commander (Gorgutz). All other evidence is circumstancial. In fact, the section itself gives conflicting informantion on what happens in the trailer (eg. Victory Bay does not look like the battlefield shown in the trailer, and the Tau's commander is not the DC commander). I say the "Canon Ending" section of this article should be deleted and stay deleted until we get a proper source. Sgt. Hydra (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Unlocking DoW/WA races
Do you have to have the original game and Winter Assault installed somewhere on the same drive in order for the two games to show up under Dark Crusade's "Game Manager"? If not, what's the trick to making them show up, so you can input the CD keys from those games and unlock all the races? If so, why isn't it mentioned in the article that you need more than just CD keys to unlock them? 214.13.173.15 (talk) 01:00, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The second paragraph of the article is generally incorrect, as the previous poster on this thread has pointed out. In order to unlock the races from the first two games, you must own the games and enter in the CD codes at the time of installation.  There may be a way of doing this after the game is installed, but I can't speak on this from personal experience.  -- Silverhand Talk 15:18, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

TWO canon endings?
It is stated that the canon ending of the Dark Crusade is with the Blood Ravens. However, I think that there is a slight twist to that. Here is why:

In Soulstorm, if the Blood Ravens win, it states in the ending cutscene that the Blood Ravens "acquitted themselves." This implies that they were guilty of something before but redeemed themselves. Now, we also know that if the Blood Ravens win in Dark Crusade, the Segmentum Command accuses the chapter of heresy, but the Inquisition drops the charges. We also know that if the Kronus Liberators level the Space Marine headquarters, Lucas Alexander finds evidence that the Blood Ravens are somehow connected to Chaos. (Indeed, Eliphas hints at similar things at times, too)

So, my conclusion is that Soulstorm and Dawn of War 2 Do not follow the same storyline. Rather, the two are a sort of fork in the road following the Dark Crusade. Fusion7 (talk) 18:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Canon wise the only 3 races could have won the Dark Crusade are the imperial guard, tau, or the eldar as even if captain Thule was technically killed in the last stand at their fortress the blood ravens defeat is canon according to one of the campaign banner war gears as it states that it was recovered from the remains of the blood ravens base after the campaign. no Thule could easily have survived the battle as space marines can survive anything other than from being vaporized or suffering Tank busting wounds. finally the end soulstorm for the space marines states that the blood ravens atone for some loss or heresy possibly losing this campaign but that ending is non canon according to dialogue in Dow 2 --64.105.34.75 (talk) 04:33, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

In-Universe endings?
This article contains alternateve endings to the Game's plot, described in an n-universe style. This is not apropriate for wikipedia. They will need to be re-written, and in my opinion, reduced. I must say that the descriptions of the defeat of the different armies are very good, but they would be better suited to something like relicwiki or something like that. Rustyfence (talk) 20:27, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

How to unlock the races on Steam/Digital Download Programs
Someone might want to note that on most Digital Download programs, including Steam, they did away with the CD-Keys. To activate the Dawn of War and Winter Assault Races, you simply need to install and run the respective game. Once they've run at least once, the races will automatically be available in multiplayer just as if you'd entered the CD-Key.

Might be worth adding to the article as, generally, these games are being sent through digital download instead of retail these days -173.88.114.82 (talk) 20:42, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Change to multiplayer to use Steam
Changes to the multiplayer component would be of interest :


 * changed the online system from Gamespy to Steam )
 * removal of other multiplayer capabilities — Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.1.49.229 (talk) 09:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

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