Talk:Wayne State University/Archive 1

Article Bias
With such statements as, "Wayne State University has a strong commitment to making higher education affordable," this article seems more like a recruitment pamphlet than a neutral wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.152.117.129 (talk) 03:21, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Wayne State Academic Ranking in first sentence
Seems odd, no? I do a lot of national recruiting and if I am not directly familiar with an applicant's listed school, I will always visit said school's Wiki to gauge the quality of the candidate; so far, Wayne State appears to be the first I've seen which lists its ranking in the first sentence. If this is some "Wiki movement" which I am not familiar, please pardon my ignorance. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.221.38 (talk) 07:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Adding to my argument -- I just referenced UofM, MSU, Central, Western, Northern and Oakland U and all do not contain the information in the first sentence. Again, please inform me of my ignorance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.221.38 (talk) 07:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Spelling Error in embedded image
Under History, the picture titled "Kresege/Purdy Library" is incorrect. The correct spelling is "Kresge". I'm not wiki-competent enough to change the title of this image. Someone please change and/or remove this image title. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.114.81.198 (talk) 06:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Good catch, I'm a little annoyed I didn't see that myself. In any case, it's fixed, and thanks for pointing it out. Unforgiven24 (talk) 15:23, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Listing of Dean Strauss in the infobox
I've removed Dean Strauss from the infobox - he's the Dean of Students, and listing him as "Dean" is 1) not consistent w/ the organizational structure of WSU, 2) not even a proper title, and 3) inconsistent with all of the articles for the other MI universities. User:Hansj102 19:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Pepsi v. coke
Should the Pepsi thing really be included?

I question this too and will remove it. --User:Kushboy 17:29 July 15, 2005


 * I don't like Pepsi. I would much rather have Coke. That's my POV. But the fact is, WSU has a contract with Pepsi, and this is as relevant to an article on an university as much as athletics and other non-academic stuff. Dmetric 21:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure, it's a fact, but every university has a contract with some beverage vendor, it's just not important enough for Wikipedia I think. I don't attend the school, so maybe it is more important than I assume. If so, a better statement such as "In 2002, WSU negotiated an agreement with Pepsi Co. as its sole distributor of soda products" or something, but even that just sounds too random to be mentioned. I just think it's not important enough. Kushboy 02:43, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

It isn't important. It's subtrivial sodacruft. &mdash; Phil Welch 02:53, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * what pop the campus sells tells me more about a school than who graduated from their. 141.217.173.54 23:40, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I think judging a school based on a drink is somewhat POV AND irrelevant. Kushboy 04:30, July 29, 2005 (UTC)


 * The list of notable graduates is important and should not be removed. The list of honorary graduates is also important. That WSU gave Carl Levin an honorary degree is entirely characteristic, I can't picture WSU giving an honorary degree to Bill Frist.


 * But the paragraph about Pepsi, which also lists some of WSU's other business ties, is also important and highly relevant. We should not guide what we include in Wikipedia by WWEBD? Robert Happelberg 21:09, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * what other colleges list the corporate chains on campus? non-notable issue Iammaggieryan 22:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the soda thing should be taken off. it is unimportant and also factually incorrect (i am not about to go to all the restaurants to check what they sell, but am a participant in the coke boycott and know that jimmy john's sells coke). Any responses? Iammaggieryan 22:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

As there are now at least 2 confirmed restaurants that don't sell Pepsi, but instead Coke (Hillel Society and Jimmy John's, I have finally removed this reference in the main article. Please discuss here before reverting without reason. scsgoal31 16:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * check where my IP address comes from before making assumptions. I'm in a position to know, believe me. 141.217.173.182 22:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, this is Wikipedia, and the fact that you're on a WSU computer means nothing to me. Find some documented information that says that Jimmy John's does not sell Coke, and we can put the Pepsi thing back up. scsgoal31 16:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Further, how can we use the word "exclusively" and then have a "but". It just doesn't make sense...and at that point, why bother putting it at all?  I wouldn't say "WSU is exclusively a commuter campus.....except for the 5,000 people who live there."  You're no longer making a point because the original fact is no longer true. It just seems like trivia now. scsgoal31 16:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Bookstores
what is the point of saying that barnes and noble provides most books (excepting nursing)? why is this information (that b&n is the primary bookstore) even relevant? Iammaggieryan 22:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

It isn't. In fact, the whole Campus section is loaded with POV and BS. I received 2 degrees from Wayne State, and spent a great deal of time on campus. Not once would I have ever described campus as "beautiful". At best it's a mediocre oasis in the midst of an urban nighmare. IMO, the entire Campus section is full of opinion and useless information, and should be entirely re-written or scrapped. westmt01, 23 May 2006

The mediocre oasis urban nightmare comment is completely unnecessary. It is not a typical campus in any way but it is still great by ANY standard. It's in the middle of a metropolis obviously some people can't adjust to that, still it is not a reason to completely shoot down the whole campus and its community with your comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.91.89 (talk • contribs)

Your claim that the WSU campus is great by "ANY" standard is completely unsubstantiated and false. It is not great by my standard; it is not great by the standard of MANY people I attended classes with. Have you ever been to other campuses? Yes, my comment is subjective as was yours, which is why I posted it here rather than the text of the article. I am entitled to my POV just as you are. But POV does not belong in the article. It's just another attempt by Detroit apologists to deny that the city has severe problems - which is a major obstacle to ever solving those problems. Oh, and I'm guessing you aren't an English major? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.209.142.225 (talk • contribs) 11:51, August 4, 2006 UTC.

It's a nice campus, in the middle of a metropolis, which has several problems. Also, all this discussion has become off topic. GenericPeter 04:21, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Neighborhood
Though north Cass Ave. cuts through campus, the Cultural Center is not referred to as being part of the Cass Corridor. The Cass Corridor is usually thought of as Cass south of Warren Ave. (the southern border of most of campus). Case in point, the Detroit Public Library and the old GM Bldg. (now Cadillac Place) are both on Cass north of Warren (indeed the Library is directly across Cass from campus). Neither of these locations would be described as being in the Cass Corridor. They would be in the New Center and the Cultural Center, respectively. Wayne State is in the Cultural Center. Just because it’s on Cass, doesn't make it the Corridor.

Junior Year in Munich
There is no mention of the Wayne State University Junior Year in Munich program. For those of us who studied in Munich in this program, it is Wayne State's claim to fame.

129.55.27.4 21:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Fencing
From what I understand, and from this page, WSU competes D2 for fencing, and all division are combined for its national championship. I've provided my source, now you must provide documentation that provides a source that WSU is D1 before reverting back. I'll leave the Championship info up there as they did win them, and as far As I can understand the only National championships WSU has won. If there are others, D2 or otherwise, I'd like them added as well. scsgoal31 19:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Wayne's contributions to the world
Many important events have happened on the Wayne State Campus.

Edmund Gettier's refutation of the "justified true belief" theory of knowledge upset at least 2500 years of epistemology. Wikipedia has an entry of Professor Edmund Gettier.

Should there be a place on Wikipedia for contributions of the faculty of Wayne State, or other universities?

Thanks

Wayne (State) University, c. 1933
In the section on History, the story of how the various parts of what were to become the university became the university could use a little more detail. Apparently the Detroit School Board was somehow involved, and according to an article in The South End, dedication plaques at the Pewabic tile fountains credit Laura Freele Osborn as "a founder and trustee" of the university. Apparently 1933 is a key date. Personally I don't know much more but would be interested to know. TIA. --A12n 01:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:WSUWarriors.gif
Image:WSUWarriors.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:18, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Reputation
There needs to be a section discussing the reputation of WSU which is poor by any standard. If you cite US news and world report you can easily find it near the bottom. Blonde Knight of Germany 09:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * So it's not just me and my classmates saying it. Huh. Cholerashot 15:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If I were you I'd transfer out, even U Windsor is much better. You are looked down upon if you goto WSU, that's a fact. Blonde Knight of Germany 06:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think that US News and World Report is a good publication by which to gauge the quality of a university. I think there should be a section detailing how needlessly pessimistic Wayne students are about their school, and instead of taking advantage of the hundreds of opportunities afforded to them, they instead chose to complain and belittle their university. A school is only as good as its students. WSUCO08 05:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's tier 4 according to US News, period.Blonde Knight of Germany (talk) 14:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but when their ranking means little to nothing then you aren't saying much. I didn't question your accuracy in reporting WSU's US News rank, I question the manner in which that rank was derived. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WSUCO08 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This discussion is completely uninformed and subjective. Such biased information does not belong in a Wikipedia article. US News Rankings are to a large part based on student selectivity. Wayne State is traditionally a broad access university, i.e. not highly selective. The reasoning is that it gives opportunity to students from many diverse backgrounds, as well as non-traditional and first-generation students. This severely depresses its rankings in the US News rankings. Depending on the methodology, WSU is ranked much higher in other surveys. For example, at topuniversities.com (2018) it is ranked 88th(!) in the US. In terms of WSU students being pessimistic, that has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Most WSU students have a positive attitude towards their university. See, for example: https://www.niche.com/colleges/wayne-state-university/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yapete (talk • contribs) 18:15, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

I think there needs to be a section about safety and security around campus. No fear-mongering, nothing alarmist, just some relevant information about the frequency with which students are mugged or assaulted. Sure, relatively statistically rare, but I personally know several people who have been mugged at gun point, and there is an email alert every few months about the latest run of stolen cars, sexual assaults in stairwells, and the like. Bottom line, most college age females would not feel safe walking around the campus alone after dark, and many males would feel the same. Others have no problem and roam around as they please. You never know.69.14.27.0 (talk) 20:09, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Statistically speaking, Wayne State has a safer campus than that most other schools in the state. This is a much touted fact during their orientation and a fact that their police station is very proud of. You are made aware of any muggings or stolen cars on campus because they are required to send a report out to all students, as is every other school. This leads to the perception that it is less safe than other schools, but if you went to those other places you would be getting similar reports, but with more frequency because it happens more often there. The fear is a product of perception. You wouldn't be afraid to walk around main campus at Michigan at night, even though, statistically speaking, they have a less safe, less patrolled campus. So no, there shouldn't be a section for campus safety, it is alarmist for no reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WSUCO08 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I know it's six years later, but such information needs to be sourced from reliable secondary sources. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Motto?
The article states that Wayne State's motto is "World Class Education in the Real World (tm)." However the University's seal plainly includes the Motto "Industry Intelligence Integrity." As far as I see, the "Real World" phrase is just an (unfortunate) advertising slogan the ad department came up with in 2001. I'll leave this for someone else to change however. Thank goodness that cheesy and sort of depressing slogan isn't really WS's motto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.225.172.223 (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC) What do you think of the new slogan "Aim Higher"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.217.84.106 (talk) 18:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

They have the worst financial system ever created for a college. first off they charged me to drop a class, not a small charge, a $200 charge. Then they gave me no notification that I had a charge. Three years later I get a pre-collection letter. We think we get it figured out, then months down the road I try to get a transcript from them and I have a hold on my account because "I haven't paid my balance". Well they gave me no notification that I owed again. So, at this point my pre-collection is getting closer to collections. When I call to figure it out they tell me that I have to pay all $200 by 5:00 pm or I get charged a $40 collections charge. So I say I will pay, then they tell me that to pay over the phone (since I no longer live there, and don't plan to drive there from Washington) that I get a 3% charge (of the $200) to pay over the phone because they don't do that. WHAT!?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.209.163.75 (talk) 20:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Helen Thomas Controversy
A new editor has inserted material in a new "Helen Thomas Controversy" section. I've removed the material as it isn't really related to this article. In fact, the only cited source linking this controversy to Wayne State was a very brief article that only said that the institution repudiates Thomas's remarks but intends to keep awarding the award named for her. There was otherwise no evidence presented that this controversy has close ties to this institution.

If someone can produce evidence clearly linking this controversy to Wayne State, please do so. Otherwise, the controversy has no place here. Editors are reminded to review WP:NPOV and WP:OR before readding this material. ElKevbo (talk) 21:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Please see the direct quote from Ben Burns. And many others I can quote if needed. The decision was that of the University's - not of Helen's. The University has caused this specific controversy. They are the one's responsible for the name being retained. --Ahmedalla (talk) 23:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * None of the references provided speak of a controversy in regards to Wayne State not changing the award's name. The references mention WSU has an award named after Thomas, but none speak of any controversy. — X96lee15 (talk) 00:20, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Please see definition of controversy. If it is the title, than call it Diversity Award Issue - the issue has resulted in clear controversy or their wouldn't be a deliberation removing name.


 * Again, none of the sources provided speak of anyone protesting the award. The only "controversy" here is Thomas' remarks, and even then, is there really a controversy? She said them then resigned.  — X96lee15 (talk) 16:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

There is no reference in title to Controversy. This is a decision the UNiversity has made to associate with Helen Thomas. This is not Helen Thomas' decision and completely irrelevant. This is the University's decision to associate with her. The remarks are egregious enough to warrant this as a comment. If you would like to edit and come to a consensus I am open to listening. But deleting is not an option. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahmedalla (talk • contribs) 17:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You have only provided one reference that even mentions Wayne State University. That reference is five sentences long.  It does not mention a controversy or that WSU has even come under fire.  The only "controversy" associated with Wayne State is you trying to include it in this article.  You are placing undue weight from a single point of view on a very minor story (judging by the number of references on the subject). The section should be deleted. — X96lee15 (talk) 17:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Please note that Ahmedalla has been blocked by an uninvolved editor for numerous violations of policy and community norms, including WP:BLP and WP:NPOV.

Personally, I remain open to the possibility that we may need to insert something about this topic into this article. But I believe that the case has not yet been made. If someone can make the case - with high quality, reliable sources - then please do so! ElKevbo (talk) 04:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Whence the name "Wayne"?
I don't see that the name of the university is explained. What person, place, or thing named 'Wayne' is the university named for? CountMacula (talk) 15:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That'd be General "Mad" Anthony Wayne. There's a street on campus named after him as well, and the county Detroit is in is called Wayne County, as well. - Unforgiven24 Talk|Contribs 16:09, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

SPA accounts
There have been some Single purpose accounts (SPA) which have added very specific and/or non-encyclopedic information to this article. There were revisions to their edits, but no attempts had been made to notify these users of their problematic edits on their talk page or through pings.

One user reverting them more or less told me that he had received a personal attack from one (I do not have a revision that points to the personal attack), and he argued that it's "bad advice" to let these SPAs know of the problems with their edits, solely on the basis of this personal attack and the fact that these users are SPAs.

I strongly disagree. If we do not let SPA accounts know exactly what is wrong with their edits, they will have no opportunity to correct their mistakes and they may think we are being unfair in reverting their edits. Some of them may have good intentions, so they can be educated on how to write in an encyclopedic style and how Wikipedia works. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)