Talk:Weather Machine/Archive 1

Copy edit
Hi, I've volunteered to copyedit Weather Machine (sculpture). None of my edits are law; please feel free to revert anything I've done that you disagree with, and feel free to contact me with any concerns that aren't solved with a simple revert.

I think it would be nice if the article could have an explanation of 'Terence O'Donnell and his "funny Irish jig"'—this line seemed to me to pop out form nowhere and left me scratching my head. Also, the infobox states the structure is 30ft, but the body states it is 25–30ft. Curly Turkey (gobble) 04:30, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the copy edit. I agree with your edits. Much appreciated. I agree re: the jig. I thought the same thing myself, but alas the source does say just that... I am still conducting research and hope the connection becomes more obvious. I am not sure what to do about the 25-30 foot height range; sources indicate both, so in the prose I reflect the range but this is not possible using the infobox parameters (as far as I know). I went with the larger of the two numbers for the infobox. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think I'm done with this copyedit. As I said already, feel free to revert anything you disagree with.  Also, I haven't checked sources, checked for comprehensiveness, etc etc, or done anything beyond simple copyediting.  You might want to double-check what I've done to ensure I haven't introduced any errors, or worded things so that they contradict what the sources say.
 * If you're really aiming at GA with this, then I think you'll probably have to get the height thing straightened out. At the very least, it needs an explanatory endnote.  The infobox is more problematic—I don't think we can really just choose one height over the other.  Maybe you can find help at the template's talk page—maybe they either can show you how to display it, or they can fix the template some way.  Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Your edits look fine to me -- thanks again! -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Update: I found a source that says the sculpture is 33 feet tall, which widens the height range even more. I posted a comment on the infobox talk re: ranges for measurements. In the meantime, I left the height parameter at 30 foot, and the prose mentions the range from 25 feet to 33 feet. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. The infobox now displays the height range. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:14, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Use of non-free images in this article
This article currently (14 Nov 2013) uses three images, and all are tagged as free images. However, since they may be seen as derivative works of the copyrighted sculpture, all are nominated for deletion on Commons. (See for the centralized deletion discussion on Commons, and see this talk page discussion for further details.)

Even if they are deemed non-free derivative works and are deleted from Commons, we can still upload the images to en.wiki and use them under our non-free content policy, so long as they fulfill all our non-free content criteria. I have no doubt that using a single image of the Weather Machine would be acceptable under Wikipedia policy. My questions are: would our policy allow two non-free images of the sculpture, so long as they are showing different aspects or configurations? Could three ever be acceptable? And which image or images should we use? (Note in particular NFCC#3b, which states "Multiple items of non-free content are not used if one item can convey equivalent significant information.")

The article currently uses:
 * File:PioneerSquareWeatherMachine.jpg is probably the clearest image, showing a "sun" top.
 * File:Weather Machine - Portland, Oregon (2013) - 02.JPG is a close-up, showing more detail, with a "heron" top.
 * File:Occupy Portland (Downtown PDX).jpg gives a good sense of scale, seen with a crowd of people.

In addition, we might consider File:Weather Machine, Portland, Oregon (2013) - 3.jpeg, which shows a very different angle.

Comments? Opinions? – Quadell (talk) 14:15, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Just to give my own opinion, I think File:PioneerSquareWeatherMachine.jpg definitely should be in the infobox, even if the image is non-free. Further, I think it would be acceptable to also include File:Weather Machine - Portland, Oregon (2013) - 02.JPG, which shows a different "top". I am skeptical as to whether any other non-free images of the work could be included in this article. – Quadell (talk) 18:23, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed re: the two images you mentioned. Personally, I hope the Occupy Portland image can be kept because I do not believe the sculpture is the main focus of the image and I think it provide a sense of scale. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:05, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I just uploaded File:Weather Machine plaque (2013).jpg, which should be appropriate for Wikipedia. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 03:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Naming of article?
OK, so I see that this article is scheduled to be the Featured Article for 1/6/2014. First, thanks and congratulations to all who made that happen. However, I do need to ask - Is it purposeful that this article be named Weather Machine (sculpture) instead of just Weather Machine, which is currently a redirect to the article? There are no other articles that share the Weather Machine name, and it looks like the redirect I just mentioned was originally pointing to the article Weather modification. Also, the redirect Weather machine, with a lower-case "m", still points to Weather modification.

I would like to suggest the following:
 * Change the name of this article from Weather Machine (sculpture) to Weather Machine
 * Change the redirect Weather machine so that it points to this article
 * At the top of this article, add a template that points users to Weather modification if that is what they were looking for.

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed elsewhere. Thanks, and please let me know if any comments. KConWiki (talk) 03:40, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You're right---we only disambiguate when necessary. The page should be moved to Weather Machine. Curly Turkey (gobble) 04:08, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Works for me. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 04:11, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Do one of you guys want to pursue that, or do you want me to? (I assume it would be a "rename" template or something? On my view, the "move" tab is not present on the regular article.) KConWiki (talk) 05:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I am going to go ahead and add the request to this talk page. KConWiki (talk) 05:28, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * All right - on these three points:
 * Change the name of this article from Weather Machine (sculpture) to Weather Machine - I have requested this.
 * Change the redirect Weather machine so that it points to this article - I have done this.
 * At the top of this article, add a template that points users to Weather modification if that is what they were looking for. - I have done this.
 * KConWiki (talk) 05:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 06:38, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Should the FA review page also be moved? -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe it was moved as a subpage of the article. bd2412  T 20:50, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the GA page was moved, but not the FA page. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:55, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I see. I'm not sure there's any point in moving that. bd2412  T 21:36, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok. I will let others decide; I just figured it was good practice to keep related pages named consistently. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page speedy moved by User:BD2412 Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Weather Machine (sculpture) → Weather Machine – The article that is currently named "Weather Machine (sculpture)" is scheduled to be the Featured Article on 1-6-2014. Per discussion at the talk page, there is no reason that it should not be Weather Machine, without the need for a parenthetical suffix. Due to the prominence that this article will achieve in less than 24 hours, I would think that this should be done as soon as possible. Thanks. KConWiki (talk) 05:32, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Support as the only topic by this name. Given the circumstances, and the above discussion which clearly supports such a move, I will implement an immediate move of the title, with objections to be sorted out after the main page experience has concluded. Cheers! bd2412  T 15:26, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.