Talk:Wee-Bey Brice/Archive 1

Revert
Why did you revert this page? The old version was very poorly written. ThatGuamGuy 04:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)sean
 * I can't speak for other users but I reverted your edit again because you removed a lot of information from the page with your edit. If you feel the writing has room for improvement make constructive edits to the existing text - starting afresh and reducing the information content of the article is not the best solution.--Opark 77 18:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * First off, every edit I made was based on the existing text (though some were less directly based). I don't want to get into a big reversion war, but I am curious. What information did I remove which belongs in the article? To my eye, the information which was removed was tangential to the subject of the article, Wee-Bey Brice. It discusses the murder of Kresson from every point of view *except* Wee-Bey's, for instance. It reads as if its written by a fan boy raving about why Wee-Bey is awesome, jumping back and forth between biographical information, character background, and plot points, with no distinction. The information I removed was irrelevant, and most of the information is still there in my version, it's just more coherently structured. I would also point out that the goal of an encyclopedia entry on a television character is not to simply list every single thing which they did on the show, but rather to explain, quickly, why they were important to the show and what major things they took part in, and (if relevant) how they shaped the character.
 * I think the best solution would be to identify the information from which you think is missing from mine -- as I had no intention of removing important information -- and we can incorporate it into my more structured revision.
 * PS: For the record, the initial reversion was because that editor has a strict policy that any edits not explained in the comment box are automatically reverted. It had nothing to do with what I'd written.
 * ThatGuamGuy 18:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)sean

Here's my cleaned up version. Please tell me what you think it is missing which is important to Wee-Bey. Note that your reversion also ruined all the links I updated:


 * Character history

Wee-Bey was the primary soldier of the Barksdale Organization. Among the numerous murders he committed on behalf of Avon Barksdale was Avon's ex-lover Deidre Kresson. Wee-Bey was also responsible for more mundane activities including driving and picking up money. In contrast to his long list of crimes, Wee-Bey is good-natured towards his friends, and has a passion for keeping pet fish. He has a son, Namond, by a woman named De'Londa.


 * Season one

As one of Barksdale's main soldiers, Wee-Bey comes in constant conflict with the police. He was once pulled pver by Detectives Hauk and Carver, who seized 20,000 dollars of Barksdale's money from the car. Later, when Avon was eliminating various outstanding evidence of wrongdoing, Wee-Bey killed Nakeesha Lyles, a witness they had bought off. Wee-Bey was twice involved in gunfights with legendary stick-up man Omar Little, after torturing and killing Omar's lover and partner in crime Brandon. Their first encounter ended with Wee-Bey shot in the leg, but he later defended Avon against Omar, shooting him in the arm and forcing his retreat. He was also linked to the body of a dancer from Orlando's strip club, who died of a drug overdose after sleeping with Wee-Bey at a party. He wrapped her body in a carpet and dumped it.

Wee-Bey's eventual downfall came when he and Little Man killed Orlando for snitching to the police. During the incident, Little Man shot Detective Greggs, who was undercover. Stringer ordered Wee-Bey to kill Little Man and flee town; D'Angelo was responsible for driving Wee-Bey to Philadelphia (and taking care of his fish). When D'Angelo was arrested, he tipped them to Wee-Bey's location, and to the fact that Wee-Bey had killed Dierdre Kresson. Once in custody Wee-Bey confessed to countless murders, including several he had not committed (such as William Gant) to protect other people in the Barksdale Organization.


 * Season two

Wee-Bey was imprisoned with Avon, serving life without parole. He continued to keep fish and enjoyed an easy life under Barksdale's protection. One guard named Dwight Tilghman bothered him because he had confessed to murdering a relative of Tilghman's. Once Wee-Bey complained to Avon, the problem was swiftly dealt with.


 * Season three

Wee-Bey appeared briefly to help Avon approach legendary prisoner Dennis "Cutty" Wise to offer him a position within their organization. Both Wise and Avon were paroled, leaving Wee-Bey to serve his time without them.


 * Season four

Wee-Bey's son became involved with the drug trade while still in middle school. Wee-Bey encouraged his son to apply himself in his work as a runner for his old colleague Bodie Broadus. Namond is also responsible for his fish. Ultimately, he is confronted by the fact that Namond is incapable of participating in the drug world, and allows his son to move in with Howard Colvin, on the hope that he can live a good life that Wee-Bey never had the chance to.


 * Sorry for my mistake, with the extensive nature of the rewrite I thought you had begun from scratch. Having taken on board your comments I concur that my inclusion of the information about Deirdre Kresson is outside the remit of this article and should be rewritten to simply state that he killed her rather than explaining the particulars of the investigation.


 * Thank your for posting you version as a reference but I was able to review it in the page history.


 * Thank you for your suggestion. My main problems with your rewrite:
 * 1. I'm opposed to the recent addition of "Character History" subsections to character articles. Surely biography and character history are interchangeable? If an overview is needed it should be placed between biography and Season 1 with no new subheading necessary or more appropriately in the lead of the article which is supposed to introduce the subject and provide an overview.


 * 2. I believe the list of characters Wee-Bey is known to have killed is notable and a useful reference tool although it appears to have already been cut down from what I recall.


 * 3. Wee-Bey's involvement in the death of Keesha is significant to the wider story and should be included in his article.


 * 4. You've introduced some elements of informal tone that should be avoided - for example stating that Orlando was killed for "snitching"


 * Perhaps you could explain the difference between the three types of information you mentioned - character background, biographical information and plot points? To my mind both the character background and plot points pertaining to the character would be considered biographical information about that character. I can see the logic in separating out the background of the character from the characters role in the plot of the show but I'm not clear that there needs to be a third subset of information. The majority of the character articles were written by taking an episode by episode approach so I can understand where the problems you have with the structure have arisen and would be glad to lend a hand in addressing this.


 * Please refrain from personal attacks - I wrote this article initially and I am a huge fan of the show but being a wikipedia editor means I can write here without being labelled a "fan boy." I should be a little thick skinned as I am aware I submit anything here to merciless editing but I take exception to that comment. I'll admit that I also wasn't pleased to see something I have spent a lot of time on described as "poorly written" which is a perfectly acceptable comment here on wikipedia. I find that a little tact goes a long way when collaborating on an article. To clarify I am a fan of the show as a whole and Wee-Bey is far from my favourite character. His actions are repulsive but Hassan Johnson's performance and the writing humanises him to some extent. I do not believe I was "raving" about how awesome I though the character was when I wrote the article and was aiming to add the structural backbone of summarising his role on the show. I welcome your effort to make the article more readable.


 * I followed your discussion with the other editor before reverting the page and while he requested that you include an edit summary he did not state that was the sole reason for his revert. Edit summaries and this kind of discussion are crucial to the collaborative aspects of wikipedia so thank you for taking the time to discuss your edit.
 * --Opark 77 20:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * First off, let me say I'm sorry; if I had actually thought one person had written it, I wouldn't have insulted the writing. I honestly thought it read somewhat pastiched, and, based on the nature of Wikipedia, took it for granted that collaboration had led to clutter. So I'm sorry about that. Based on the history, it does look like a lot of people tweaked it after you, so I blame my problems with the article on them.


 * On to the article:
 * 1 - Character History - that sounds reasonable; I was just matching the other articles, but I actually thought it was a bit redundant too, if the first thing after "Biography" is "Character History". To my mind, the distinction should be that "Character History" -- whether an official sub-heading, or just referring to stuff in between "Biography" and "Season One" -- should be stuff that happened prior to the series, family information, etc. So, for instance, Dierdre Kresson was murdered by Wee-Bey off screen months before the show, so it's "History".
 * 2 - What I did with the list was put the ones he killed prior to the show under "History", and the rest of them in place in Season one. This was because I felt a lot of these articles seemed redundant, by listing every character a person killed, and then citing the specific times they killed them as well.
 * 3 - I'm not sure how to make Keesha's death bigger in the article, because it impacted Wee-Bey so little. There was no previous mention to her larger importance, but I could see it, like:

He was also linked to the body of a dancer from Orlando's strip club, who died of a drug overdose after sleeping with Wee-Bey at a party. His callousness disposal of the body swayed another stripper to give information to the police, beginning the collapse of the Barksdale criminal empire.
 * 4 - Fair enough; seemed like "snitching" was one word that explained better than ten what they felt he did, but that's what collaborative editing is for.
 * For the record, I think Wee-Bey is a great character, and well-worth celebrating. ThatGuamGuy 21:14, 28 January 2007 (UTC)sean


 * Thanks for your kind words, although I think many of the problems were my fault!
 * 1. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees some redundancy in a character history heading, perhaps background would be preferable if anything. Your separation of the information in this way is logical and I'll try and apply a similar approach to the other articles when I edit them in future.
 * 2. Again now that I follow your thinking this makes sense and I support the edit.
 * 3. That reads well. I'll action the changes after I post this.
 * --Opark 77 23:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)