Talk:Werewolf/Archive 2

Nazi Werewolves
First, should this section be given a page of it's own, as it doesn't seem to have much do do with the mythological creature? Second, I recollect, although I cannot remember where I saw it, that the Nazi Werewolves were co-ed. The current description does not allow for this, as both the SS and the Hitler Youth were strictly male organizations.

IsaacSapphire 19:31, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

History of the Werewolf
In the Greek mythology section, the article describes two very different stories about werewolves from Greek myth, then proceeds to say "Probably the two stories are identical,"

Given that the two stories described are clearly not identical, what is that supposed to mean?

Further down, this section:

The werewolves of the Christian dispensation were not, however, all considered to be heretics or viciously disposed towards mankind. "According to Baronius, in the year 617, a number of wolves presented themselves at a monastery, and tore in pieces several friars who entertained heretical opinions. The wolves sent by God tore the sacrilegious thieves of the army of Francesco Maria, duke of Urbino, who had come to sack the treasure of the holy house of Loreto. A wolf guarded and defended from the wild beasts the head of St. Edmund the Martyr, king of England. St. Odo, abbot of Cluny, assailed in a pilgrimage by foxes, was delivered and escorted by a wolf" (A. de Gubernatis, Zoological Mythology, 1872, vol. ii. p. 145).

That quote seems to deal only with wolves; I don't think it has any relevance to werewolves. Kundor 15:41, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No one gave any reason why it might be relevant, so I'm removing it. Kundor 22:48, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

l00p 02:00, 14 July 2006 (PST) Cleaned up references to Norse beliefs in the article- provided reference to the Ulfhednar page, bridging the (notable) gap between berserkr and werewolf. Also removed the dubious reference to other Norse "were" creatures- the sagas and eddas are replete with stories of animal transformations, but unless someone can cite a reference I've never seen, it's a bit off to claim that lycanthropes or their analogues were present with any regularity in any form other than the ulfhednar / berserkr.

Werewolves in Art
Hi,

I'm looking for more references to werewolves in early art. The earlier the better! Similar to the print and the woodcut that are listed on the werewolf main page would be great. I'm just struggling to find much- when I google it I only get very modern drawings and film stills.

Thank you!


 * While it doesn't technically depict a werewolf, you may be interested in a pre-historic painting found in a cave called "Les Trois Frères" in Ariege, France. it is " /.../ believed to represent a shaman in ceremonial dress, or in the form of a shape shifter. The composite creature has the tail of a wolf, the body and antlers of a deer, the eyes of an owl, and the paws of a bear. /.../ "


 * Despite googling, I haven't been able to find any articles which aren't saturated in dubious New Agey stuff, but here's a link to get you started: http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsshaman.htm Jonas Liljeström 10:18, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Scottish Werewolves
I've added Scotland to the list of countries where there are werewolf stories from, and I've created an entry for a Scottish werewolf that is pretty unique. Lianachan 02:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Werewolf Powers and Abilities
Someone needs to do some research and come up with something. Werewolves are known for their superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, and senses. They are entirely predatory beings, basically. User:VanHelsing


 * that's only really true in certain modern media renditions of them. historically, they were seen as everything from predatory serial killers (Peter Stubbe) to ritual protectors of the community's fertility (Thiess). most historic conceptions were in between those. as for "powers", sometimes they are said to be superhuman, sometimes not. Whateley23 01:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

More on Silver Bullets
Can someone post information on the reasons why werewolves are particularly elergic to silver?ChuckDizzle 05:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * A cursory scan of the Internet indicates that silver is associated with the moon, probably because of the way it shines, and because werewolves are vulnerable to the moon, they are vulnerable to silver. I haven't found a source for this that can be used in the article.  [[Image:Tycon.jpg]]Coyoty 20:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Coyoty. I found this right after you replied:
 * "My one true passion in life (besides Radiohead and rootbeer, lol) is the legends behind Vampyres. All Vampyric legend begins with one thing: The First Evil. The First, as most call it, was largely seen as a Satan figure. It was he who created the first Vampyre. Some stories tell that he was a Vampyre himself, but most don't. I've got stacks and stacks of books on Vampyric legend and Vampyres. You ask me anything about them, and I'll answer.

"I'm going to clear something up about the use of Silver ONLY on werewolves:

"Silver, or the Metal of the Moon, is the bane for all unholy. If you were to believe in such, that means that silver is more effective than cold steel or iron on a Vampyre or a Zombie. This is not true with Faeries. Faeries were born OF the moon, meaning that the Metal of the Moon cannot harm them. If you ever run in with a psycho faeire, use iron. lol. Most vampyres cannot be defeated with just silver bullets. You'll usually need to take out the heart and head to off them completely. If it is a newly risen vampyre, then they usually die after the heart is removed.("who says you can kill a vampire with a silver bullet?lol!unless your talking about the original movie "dracula"with bala lagousi i have never heard of "metel of the moon"not to mention you can't kill a werewolf with a silver bullet either! it is simply any wound that destroys the heart or decapitates it! now back to the whole vampire thing..in some books vampires have there hearts removed so they become...how should i put this"unstakable?"like for exaple there was a an episode of "angel"(wich is one of the more accurate tv shows that are vampiric in nature)where a vampire had his heart removed so that he could avenge he girlfriends death..long story short..from the time his heart was removed he had 48 hours left to do whatever!but in other books vampire have ther hearts taken out so no one can kill them!and since vampires are said to be immortel they would be undying and unkillable but thats just my opinion to each his own!agl243)

While I can't site a specific source, I do recall reading somewhere that the effectiveness of silver is do to it's perceived "purity", thus it's association with religion, as well as werewolves and vampires. The "evil" entity theoretically has an abhorence for all things pure. I'm sure that psychological elements have some bearing on the effectiveness, as was mentioned above. Rhyianon

"The reason that crosses can ward off vampyres, is, quite frankly, because they are unholy monsters. If anyone has read 'Salem's Lot by Stephen King, then they will know that only a cross weilded by a pious man can do any good. Holding a cross without faith is like trying to shoot someone with the saftey on. >.>

"By the way. Vampyres bleed if you shoot/stake them. Don't ask me how." "but i heard that when you kill a vampire it turns to dust!is that true or should i stop putting my money on"buffy the vampire slayer"being acurate? "Actually I recently read a book(Wish I coudl rememebr the name) that revealed the Cross was actually the symbol of the Roman God Mithras, from which much of Christianity's symbology and rituals derive. Mithras was, amongst other things, a Sun God. So the Cross, being symbol of a Sun God, suddenly makes sense as being the bane of Vampires. Take this with a grian of salt though. There's alot of controversy(big surprise) over any claim that Christianity's version of the Cross is anything but the absolute truth. And many still argue over how much, if anything was stolen from Mithrism.


 * very little of Mithraism seems to be related to Christianity. see here for some discussion of this issue. Whateley23 01:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This isn't really related to the topic of this article, but that's a pretty biased source. DreamGuy 12:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Source: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10404&st=15

ChuckDizzle 14:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC).


 * I don't know how related this is.But, in the 1530s, French writer François Rabelais mentioned in his novel Pantagruel and army whose soldiers wore "fairy skin" jerkins, and led by a Captain Loup-Garou, obviously playing on the belief that fairy skin, like the werewolf, were impervious to ordinary weapons. --Svartalf 12:23, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

vurdalak ?
It is stated in the article that a Russian name for the werewolf is "vurdalak". Could anybody point me to a creditable source for this? I know that a number of legends do a lot to blur the distinction between various monsters, but AFAIK, that term applies more to a vampire like being (taste for blood, fully human appearance) than to a werewolf type of creature. --Svartalf 13:36, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

"Werewolf" in different languages
Does the list in the "History of the werewolf" section serve any purpose? It basically says that pretty much every european country has stories about werewolves (is that even true?), which could be stated without naming every single country and what "werewolf" means in that language. If no one disagrees, I'll go ahead and remove the list altogether soon. --Conti|&#9993; 17:38, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * While I am not sure it is under proper label, or that all the terms in the list do belong there, I do tend to agree that no article on that kind of subject would be complete without a list of the various names under which the creature is known throughout the world. --Svartalf 18:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why such a list would be useful for the article. Actually, the interwikilinks on this article are quite a nice list of what "Werewolf" means in different languages. It's not really part of the article, but those who really want to know this kind of information can get it. --Conti|&#9993; 15:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

war info and other extras
I dont think anyone has entered anything on the war between the more powerful lycan against the blood suckers. ill shed some light on the subject then.

fisrt, vampires do not want a more powerful race, the werewolf, to be around. the try to assasinate them, while the werewolfs are trying to create a were-vamp hybrid. when the vampires found out, they, of course, wanted to destroy any further experiments. werewolfs hid there experiments in secret, heavily gaurded places. the hybrid would have the power and stratagic skills of a lycan, and the ability to fly and other vamp powers.

the under world movies portray this theory very well.

here is some mixed info which i have learned

alpha wolves are the leaders of the pack. they are bigger and have a greater power than regular werewolves.

the whole full moon legend started whenever, but it should be adressed that a full moon does transform a werewolf, but that is not the only time it can transform. if it transforms previous to a full moon, by free will, then a moon arises, it will increase the lycan's power.

more info is to come, but i got to go Eric aka Shade


 * This is a plot summary of Underworld (2003 film), not relevant to folklore werewolves. Try adding material to Lycan instead. Please sign your comments in the future. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 06:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

extra's which should be known
lycans are much more stronger than vampires. they also hate the vampires. they are only increased in strenght when a full moon is out. they control the wolf form too. alpha wolfs are the strongest and lead the "pack". they try to make a vamp/ lycan hybrid, which is why vamps hate them, they dont want another, more powerful race. people say the only way to kill one is to hit it with some good old silver, but you could kill one when its in its human state. also, it u shoot it in the head or chop it in half or burn it, itll die, pretty fast! a scrape that has werewolf drool on it will turn yourself into a lycan, not just the bite, because its actually the drool that turns you into one. their power ranges from high leaps to super strength.ill be back with more information later.

eric —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.22.198.233 (talk) 01:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC). Did you get that from van Helsing? Tridentdc24 16:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)tridentdc24Tridentdc24 16:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)]]


 * This is all straight from Underworld (2003 film). Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 06:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like you need to study some more... 76.177.56.8 01:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Fixed
I am the unknown entity, only known by my IP, but I fixed whatever that vandalism was. It's now back to how it was before. You're welcome, kids! (74.115.32.107 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC))

The possible truth of Werewolves
Werewolves have obviously sprung from old folklores. But even tough technology have poisoned our minds, these folklores remain to shiver the spines of many who were able to listen to it. As on movies, these beasts change to their lycan form during full moon. And then roam around for possible ill-fated victims on which they drand the blood. Whatever these characteristics they may have, they are very hazardous to the human environment if true. Several fiction materials expressed that the only thing that can kill them are Silver bullets.

Obviously, some people may be debating if they are true or what. Scientists, of course would deny this thing because they found nothing to proove this.

Shamans, of course can explain this, and that their main reason of course and possibly would be demonic possession.

So, for me, werewolves are true because of demonic possession. Although Science would deny a hundred times, that these things are mere fibs, we can really say that there is a presence of Good and Evil in our world. Just GOD vs. SATAN. To fool the peole, Satan would create his army of beasts toconquer the world and to cause panic upon us which would make us forget about God.

(doesn't everbody know that only new werewolves turn in conjuction with the lunar cycles?

and that werewolves control when they turn?the only other thing that can turn a werewolf invoultarily is the howling of another lycan!some times i wonder where people come up with this stuff "demonic possession"when i think of someone being possed i think of "the exorsist" not "the wolf man"...agl243)


 * We don't need to add any of this, because speculative non-verified theories do not belong on Wikipedia, religious or otherwise.--BoyliciousDarian 13:00, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Wolf man disambiguations
The disambiguation page Wolf man does contain a link to this article, but not as an alternate meaning of that (it's mentioned in the description of a horror book about werewolves). And the article that Wolf-man redirects to has no mention of Werewolves or Wolf Men that I saw (I posted a comment on that page as well). I usually use the term to refer to Werewolves, but it might also be used to refer to Cynocephaly (illumi 00:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Infobox
That paranormal creatures infobox is causing me a headache. Werewolf legends originate in only some particular regions, not "worldwide" as the infobox says; there aren't wolves worldwide. But one could also say that the legends have now spread worldwide, or one could also say that there aren't any real werewolves anywhere. So what does this entry actually mean? There's no indication on the template page itself. Also, the status is listed as "unconfirmed". Werewolves as depicted in every legend or work of fiction that I know of are physically impossible; you just can't shapeshift as rapidly as that under the laws of physics and biology as we know them. So "unconfirmed", while perhaps technically accurate, is understating the case. But again, the template page doesn't say what the standard classifications are for this. I'm not sure whether it's really an appropriate template to be using on this article at all, really, it seems more oriented towards animals that are thought to possibly be real (like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster) rather than legendary creatures like unicorns and vampires. Oh, and using a screenshot from Van Helsing is possibly not fair use here, while I'm at it. This is not "for identification and critical commentary on the film and its contents". Bryan Derksen 23:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I killed the infobox as inappropriate here. DreamGuy 01:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd guess this is nonsense
"They are also very common in Omeath and Sligo.

The first supposed sign of someone being a werewolf is a scratch on the left arm, and an odd blemish near the left breast." (from the etymology section)

I don't have time to go back in history and see if this actually makes sense somehow. At the very least, it should be moved to some other section than etymology. Cheers. 194.213.87.193 15:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Box
What sort of silliness put that box on this page? "Last Sighted"? Goldfritha 03:54, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I just now deleted that part. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 00:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Warriors of God?
I added the Theiss comment. It says it needs Citation. Not sure how to provide it, but a simple websearch for the words Thiess, Livonia, and Jurgenburg should probably bring up a few different sites that mention the story. Also, there's a really thick book found at most libraries(Which I could remember the name) that has a huge assortment of werewolf myths and legends, and the account of Thiess is amongst them. I've often theorized that when Whitewolf went with their idea of Werewolves as the warriors of Gaia, that they were inspired by Thiess's claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRedFear (talk • contribs)

Removal of external links
DreamGuy just did removed some links that I think of as the best (see diff ). What does everyone else think? Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 00:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Why does it not surprise me that you think those links were the best, after the links you had on Dragon that you liked the best were removed by me and confirmed as inappropriate by the overwhelming consensus of responding editors. It seems like your view of what is good and bad doesn't take questions of reliability and so forth into account. DreamGuy 01:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

History of the werewolf
I think 'history of the werewolf' should be merged with 'theories of origin', as they seem similar. Although 'history' doesn't seem very chronological and could be really neatened with more clear-cut information and wording. --Wselfwulf 01:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Salmon and trout?
Removed this line from the first paragraph of the History of the Werewolf section: ''Of course, if people turned to bats, that would be proof of vampires, who are, in fact, werewolves mortal enemies. Along with salmon and trout.'' I assumed it was vandalism. Nothingbutmeat 11:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Adding new section please
There should be a section on the main page called "Removal of Werewolves" and it should be expanded. --

Fire and Silver are only Sonic. in the movie Ginger snaps is about werewovles and is a VERY great film on werewovles.

- Currently there are two paragraphs in the "Becoming a Werewolf" section that actually would be more appropriately placed here (i.e. the reference to wolvesbane). I advize seperating the content of "Becoming a Werewolf" and "Removing a Werewolf"

Also, I tried to add to the wiki (but I am unauthorized) with a fact from an old folklore book about removing a werewolf: If a werewolf is at your doorstep, when the home owner throws their house key at the werewolf, it will be compelled to leave.

I understand that this is a popular subject and the site must be protected from people randomly adding their two cents, but I have more information such as this that I think the article could benefit from.

Ryceratops 14:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)Ryan Sept 19, 2007

Structure
Right - there is an FA of Kitsune which would be a good model for this one. It is a bit rough but I'll be somoothing it out. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Renaming
I've proposed renaming Category:Werewolves in fiction as well as its subcategories. (See banner above). Discussion is here. - Tobogganoggin talk 02:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm, can't get to the discussion. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Above link to discussion should work now. - Tobogganoggin talk 02:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Discussion was closed as Keep. There may be a better template for this, but I used the standard results template above. -- Kesh 23:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The website - Loup-garou.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.65.165.93 (talk) 15:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Comprised Of
"were comprised of" in the "Other Uses of the Term" is incorrect English grammar. The correct phrase is "and comprised members...." The whole comprises the parts, while the parts are comprised by the whole. Please change this grammatical mistake as the article is blocked and I cannot do so myself.