Talk:Westminster Theological Seminary

Criticism
I deleted this sentence from the criticism section:
 * The SPLC links the seminary's teachings with the beliefs of graduate Neal Horsley who sees the day when "when Christians [are] going to be looking down the barrel of a gun shooting abortionists."

This rests on a misinterpretation of the cited article, as a lengthier quotation demonstrates:
 * Years later, Horsley would write an odd account of his religious experience in the form of a fictional conversation between himself and "an invented Church elder."


 * In it, he describes his anguish at realizing "the full horror of [his own] sin" and mocks as utterly inadequate the nonviolent opposition of many mainstream churches to abortion.


 * "I've been to seminary," Horsley sneers in his novelistic account. "What'd I learn? To play the angles, that's what."


 * Horsley graduated from Westminster Theological Seminary in 1985 — but not before shocking fellow students by suggesting the day would come "when Christians [are] going to be looking down the barrel of a gun shooting abortionists."


 * Neal Horsley, anti-abortion extremist, had arrived.

The article clearly contrasts -- not "links" -- Horsley's views with those of WTS.

I also moved the bits about the Da Vinci Code website out of the "Controversy and criticism" section since it seemed to be neither controversial nor critical. --Flex 18:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree because the title of the article quoted claims it has recieved criticism. Also don't downplay and add in personal opinion on the other criticism. WTS is a bastian of rabid anti-abortion beleifs, Horsley is anti-abortion. Maybe he is more extreme, maybe not its not stated either way. Southern Poverty Law Center makes the link between his education and his beliefs. CaliEd 00:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Shame on you for taking the quote out context above to delete it. The full quote read:
 * "Due to the conservtive ideology, SPLC links the seminary's teachings with the beliefs of graduate Neal Horsley who sees the day when "when Christians [are] going to be looking down the barrel of a gun shooting abortionists."[4]


 * It seems you mislead the reason as to why SPLC linked the two just to delete it. CaliEd 00:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Re the "criticism" section: The title also says "praise." Therefore, I think a separate section is appropriate.

Re the SPLC quote: I did miss that they do "link" it (however dubious the link may be when the rest of the article is brought in), but I didn't do so intentially as you suggest. Please be more generous in attributing motives to things (cf. WP:CIVIL). In any case, I restored my changes but added this part back in. I also added citations as requested. Westminster is certainly against abortion, but they're not "rabidly" against it in the same way as Horsley, whose methods (and theonomy) they reject. --Flex 13:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Redux
I just re-read the above discussion and the SPLC link in question, and I don't see the "link" that CaliEd claims is there. If I am right, this link is original research (not to mention guilt by association), and the reference to Horsley should be removed. (The part about WTS being "a bastion of theological conservatism" could stay except that it's not really even criticism.) --Flex 18:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Redux redux
I deleted the entire section because the fact that the SPLC has criticized the Seminary is not notable. The SPLC has a very broad base of attacks and tends to criticize non-left wing groups on a regular basis. A more substantial group that tends to do a better job of avoiding constant criticism of groups with differing viewpoints would be more appropriate and wouldn't be as unfair to the school itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.82.243.71 (talk • contribs)

Category and template
I changed the category to Colleges and universities in metropolitan Philadelphia and changed the template box at the bottom as well. There is a Westminster College in New Wilmington, PA, about 60 miles north of Pittsburgh, so perhaps that's where the confusion arose. The two institutions are not related. — Ortin19 22:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Addition of Conferences and Symposia section
I added this section because Westmisnter Theological Seminary is often host to important conferences and meetings that are of interest to many beyond its walls. Verification information for the first conference I posted can be found at the seminary web site. Trappermark 22:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I deleted this section because it does not appear to be notable or encyclopedic, the external links to blogs are in violation of WP:EL, and the external links to Theopedia should rather go to Wikipedia pages (whether or not they currently exist). --Fl e x (talk|contribs) 16:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Texas
why is this a part of WikiProject Texas? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Harlock jds (talk • contribs) 17:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Because it has a small branch campus there. I asked about it a while back but got no response. --Fl e x (talk|contribs) 19:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * but that's not even mentioned in the article, Unless someone actually adds Texas info to the article in the next week or so i'll prob remove it.Harlock jds 13:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * the Dallas, Tx, campus is mentioned in the intro to the article Trappermark 03:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Academics
I added "trustees". And re-worded "subscribe" to match the language the seminary uses in their literature ("Westminster Theological Seminary - The Whole Counsel of God, (c)2006, WTS."). Because of the controvesial nature of "subscription" in some circles, it is best to use the seminary's own language. Gjh tx 06:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I added a "distinctives" paragraph. When repeated in WTS literature, and by faculty and alumni, these distinctives are mentioned along with (1) a commitment to the authority of the Bible, and (2) commitment to the Westminster standards, both of which were already mentioned in the lines above. As for urban mission... someone needs to write a Harvey Conn Wikipedia entry. Gjh tx 06:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Feel free to add a Conn article! That's what WP is all about. --Fl e x (talk/contribs) 18:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Substantial deletions?
Several paragraphs were removed from the article in July: The edit summary says "nn text". However, notability is not a criterion for text. Relevance is, and, knowing nothing about the college yet, the text looks relevant. Please elaborate further on the reasons for deletion.

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 10:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The only substantial text removal was in the Academics section (the other changes were mostly sentence and paragraph rearranging). The removed text was not neutral (WP:NPOV), was not sourced to RSs, was unverifiable, or some combination. ("Westminster has a worldwide reputation...", "Westminster has historically prized its stringent academic standards...", "a commitment to presuppositional apologetics as developed pre-eminently by..."). WP:BOOSTER. And I think removing categories listed in the "see also" section is pretty self-explanatory. I also removed the photo of the president as violating WP:UNDUE. It might be fine if the article were much longer, but there is not even a copy of the logo or photo of campus or anything; it makes it seem like the president is the most important aspect of the place. Another editor replaced it yesterday. I won't bother to re-remove it, but it seems out of whack to me. Novaseminary (talk) 13:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't comment on your other changes which you explained adequately in your edit summaries. I now see the peacock words, and see that the paragraph on branches was moved and not deleted.  Could the "Academics" paragraphs be restored with the peacock phrases omitted?
 * By the way, I don't see why the campus or logo are any more important than the president.
 * --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but what was removed didn't actually say that much of substance and wasn't properly sourced. I see only three facts that were removed (the school's language requirement, counseling studies being offered in conjunction with the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation, and that "roughly a third of its student body (is) from Korea."). I would focus first on getting independent RSs for this article . The ATS compiles student body and school stats (here) which may support and put into context a discussion of the student body. The language requirement seems border-line irrelevant on its own and seems to have been inserted to "prove" the rigor of the school. The counseling fact could go back in if sourced to something (subject to WP:UNDUE) . The school itself notes the relationship here, but it'd be good to get from a news article or the like.
 * And I don't think the logo is more important than the president, but the school's "brand" might transcend one president's tenure. Per the photo policy, the photo must be "significantly related to the article's topic." It is, of course, related, but there is only one line mentioning this person in the entire article (which seems right in light of the brevity of the article). Having the headshot photo of the president seems disproportionate, making it seem like this is a one man show, which of course it is not. Even if it were a photo of him engaging with students or faculty, it would be better (and better illustrate the subject of the article which is the school--even his nametag in the photo has a different school listed since he wasn't even at WTS when the phot was taken). Harvard University, or maybe more analogous, Princeton Theological Seminary, do not have headshots of their presidents, neither does Dartmouth College which is an FA (the first one off the college FA list I picked).
 * Novaseminary (talk) 15:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

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