Talk:Where the Angels Fall/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Nominator: 06:45, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Reviewer: 22:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Hey! I'm Sam. I'm excited to start reviewing your nomination! The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 22:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Initial comments: good job! This is a well-written article. I'm looking through for any possible errors. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 22:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm performing a source check currently to verify that there is no original research. Will be back soon. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 23:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Hey- we're getting close. I want to let you know I requested a mentorship for this GAN because I wanted to make sure I'm doing everything correctly. Feel free to check out their comments here. PSA raises some good notes. I already updated the NFUR for the song sample, but I haven't changed anything in the caption. PSA says that "most ambitious" isn't a very helpful descriptor- so maybe you could cite a review that notes its' sound? Ex) Critics noted "Owl" for its' blend of this and that. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 05:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * PSA also noted the two uses of "It was announced". (Both are under §Background and recording) The first could be changed to "" while the second could be changed to "" The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 06:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fixed overuse of "it was announced" per your suggestions.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 08:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I looked at the references for the "Owl" sample: you could note its African influences (per ref 1) and its large orchestration (per both refs). Something like: The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 17:39, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thank you!  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 00:05, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Good already

 * 1) Both the album cover and the song sample have non-free use rationales, and all images pertain to the topic and have precise captions.
 * 2) There are no edit wars, as seems to be pretty much the only editor.
 * 3) Grammar, writing, etc. is good. The article was written in a neutral tone.
 * 4) The article stays within scope and goes into detail on the background, composition, touring, etc.

Sourcing

 * I noticed that there are quite a few primary sources (Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, etc). Could you find secondary sources for these claims? I ran some cleanup scripts on the page, and it automatically tagged the primary sources with Primary source inline. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 23:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is my main concern at the moment. There are at least two claims with the tag, and I think you should at least find a secondary source for the ABC Radio National claim (section: Release and promotion), but the documentary claim just needs tweaking. Change it from to something like  That way the using Facebook as a source is more valid (in my opinion). Though- the sentence structure may need to be changed. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:24, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Reworded documentary claim per your suggestion. I'm working on finding a secondary source for the ABC Radio National claim, but I can't find anything - only other radio appearances later in the year.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 20:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I tried looking for a source, but couldn't find one. It might be better to just remove it. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ That was my thought too.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 04:30, 7 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Is there a source saying this specifically? If not it seems like OR. It is not verified in the body, so I would go ahead (if no sources can be found) to change it to something like "". The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 04:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The Touring section of the article cites the Cat Empire homepage multiple times, but I'm not seeing any actual content on that page, except for a blinking eye. Otherwise, it appears there were only 5 shows on the Australian leg of the tour, per Music Feeds. Also, the sourcing is pretty sparse in that section. Any sources to verify the North American shows? The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The information on the Cat Empire homepage is contained underneath the tour header. I noticed that there were dates on the band's website that weren't listed on the Music Feeds article, which was why I used their website as a reference. I'll admit that the band's website is definitely a primary source, so I might try to find one that's a little more independent.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 04:19, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out. I recommend just searching "cat empire australia six shows" or something similar on google to find a source. I recommend using this search engine to find reliable sources- it's been really helpful for me in the past. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 16:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've found a better source for the six Australian shows. I'm looking for sources for the North American shows.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 10:27, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm looking for sources right now. I found one that might be helpful: Do 617 - The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 14:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ The North American shows are now all sourced.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 00:18, 9 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm not finding a source for the quote "". It isn't from the Rolling Stone source referenced below, so is there another place you got the quote from? The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ This quote is from the Audio Technology interview. I wasn't quite as experienced with reference formatting when I wrote this article - thanks for catching that!  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 04:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for addressing my previous concerns! This is my first GA review, so I'm trying to look for the fine details. Anyways, I found another claim that needs a source: I am sure it's true, but I think it needs to be sourced. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 12:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I noticed you just did it- thanks! The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The Te Ao Māori News ref is down. I ran a bot on the page, which generated an archive link. You might want to look into possibly dead refs here and mark them with URL Status=dead. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 14:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Went ahead and did it. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * In the "Composition" section, sourcing is pretty sparse in the second paragraph. It appears that most of it is based off of the Music Feeds source though, so no worries. I would just reuse the citation earlier as well, perhaps insert it after the claim, to provide proper sourcing for the quote. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 14:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ I also added the citation there. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Possible copyright violation: A copyvio detector found a lot of connections between the article and one of its sources. Don't worry! You're not going to be fined or anything. We probably just need to directly quote less and paraphrase more, while avoiding close paraphrasing. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 17:22, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You're fine now: the same tool didn't find any possible copyvios. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 23:47, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Text

 * The caption for the "Owl" sample seems a little redundant. Perhaps change "". to something along the lines of "". That may need to be clarified as well because I'm not really sure what ambitious means in this context. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 01:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Changed to ""  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 09:37, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Near the end of the Background and recording section, there are two quotes from Riebl. It is a little unnatural reading to me to have the one after the other, so perhaps open the last paragraph with paraphrasing the "nine horn players" quote. We want to avoid overquoting. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Changed to ""  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 20:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Consider changing the section "Composition and sound" to simply "Composition" to avoid being redundant. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 13:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ It was such a small fix that I went ahead and did it. If you do not agree with that suggestion feel free to let me know. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Are there any more reviews for the Critical reception section? It looks fine, I'm just wondering if it's on anything like AnyDecentMusic?, Metacritic, Allmusic, etc. Otherwise that section is done. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 14:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I haven't been able to find any other reviews - this was actually the main difficulty I had when I originally wrote the article.  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 10:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You're good! I'm not going to fail this just because of the lack of reviews, I promise. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 13:39, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The charts section is missing a header. Perhaps add the line to the chart – per MOS:TABLECAPTION. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 14:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ I went ahead and did it, to be bold. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * does he state that the album is Two Shoes? It also seems like an easter egg. I'd just remove the link from "an album" to Two Shoes and leave it as plain text. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I might actually remove the quote and reword this sentence, so as to prevent overquoting (and for clarity).  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 00:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me! The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 00:39, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Changed to  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 01:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The album cover – and all other images as well – need alt text for accessibility. (for people with screen readers or visual impairments, etc.) See MOS:ALT for guidelines / instructions. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 16:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ – I went ahead and did it so you can focus on my other suggestions. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 17:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Per my mentorship mentioned above, PSA mentioned the lead. It needs info about the music itself. All you need to do is summarize the composition section and put it in the lead basically. Make sure to double check WP:LEAD if you need. + PSA suggests paraphrasing more in the reviews section rather than direct quoting. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 06:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ – Added composition info to lead section. I've shortened one quote and paraphrased another, but I wasn't sure what to do with the others. If you have any suggestions on how to further paraphrase the reviews, please let me know!  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 07:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the quote  can be shortened. Perhaps to  Other than that the section looks fine. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 16:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ –  Supreme Lord Bagel  (talk to me) 00:22, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Criteria

 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
 * a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail: