Talk:Whey protein/Archive 1

Untitled
Added forms and usage information for whey protein supplements (ie: where it is commonly found in stores, and what it’s used for) Name: Jordan Chall, User: tuj63550Tuj63550 (talk) 16:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Reference 21 has a link
Wasn't sure how to add it to the main page and didn't want to mess it up, but the consumer reports reference in 21 does have a URL if someone wants to post the link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2010/july/food/protein-drinks/overview/index.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.8.7 (talk) 22:38, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment on removal of external links/spam
MM, why is it that wheyprotein.com cannot be on the page? It has relevant research information, new information and doesn't hock any products or services. There are two small banner ads on the site but I didn't consider them to be an issue..
 * MM, Noted your comment on the removal of external links... specifically for Whey protein. Dated May 9. Is it standard policy that all external links are to be removed now? Or are all links being lumped into "spam" through some association with clearly promotional sites? SupplementData.com has sustained as a resource link for many months and I'm curious why you felt it spam... it's a resource and knowledge base, not a spam or promotion site. thank you, Shawn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.188.50 (talk • contribs)
 * Hi Shawn. I originally removed the link because I suspected it violated External_links, specifically:
 * # 2 "does not provide a unique resource"
 * # 3 "Links that are added to promote a site."
 * I don't see it as a unique resource because the information at your link could/should be included directly into the article. Also, an editor should not link to his own website or websites he/she is affiliated with since it is seen as an attempt to promote a site.  Your site is very clean (no advertising, easy to read) and does have good information but I'm not sure it warrants inclusion in this article.  I've added your link back for other editors to review though.  [[Image:Monkeyman.png]]Monkeyman (talk) 13:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

MM, Thank you. Sorry for the delay in response. I did see the change in reference to outside links after my note to you. Also, I was unaware of the author, reference peice. I thought that since SupplementData.com was built for the purpose of "unbiased" (my intention and belief not statement of fact) knowledge sharing, it wasn't so much a reference of "my work." Moot point, I'm sure at this point but worth clarifying.

I do hope that the link to the the "wheyprotein.org" site which is a paper thin commerical coverup is also removed. Thank you! ~Shawn
 * I recently added a link to a whey site (wheyprotein.org) that has some great free recipes for whey products, it's a unique resource. -Mary
 * wheyprotein.org is apparently a site promoting BioPro whey protein products. In April 2009, whey protein article was viewed 52,601 times. At least 1% of those visitors click through to wheyprotein.org which would be 526 vists and its probably even more than that. To be honest, I have used links on wikipedia.org to help jumpstart a web site. (I don't any more.) There are hundreds of articles on whey protein in peer review scientific and medical literature.  Some are cited in this article, but THEY ARE NOT LINKED TO THE ARTICLE!!! (Sorry for shouting.) Citations should link to these references, not to some web site that doesn't even appear to have references to medical and scientific literature and seems to have a mostly commercial intent. That is one of the main problems with this article and I'll start shifting links to the better validated sources if nobody else has time to do it. (Entropy7 (talk) 20:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC))

Amino acids
"Whey protein is loaded with the essential and non-essential amino acids with few carbohydrates and little fat content." What are the amino acids? --Abdull 12:15, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Someone should mention that Whey protein doesn't contain all 20 essential amino acids. --Mandom Rix 07:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Composition of whey protein varies quite a bit depending on how it is processed. Whey does contain all 20 proteinogenic amino acids, (that is amino acids specified by the standard genetic code.) Of these, 8 are generally considered to be "essential". That is, the body is not able to produce them in any significant amount. Perhaps what MandomRix is referring to is the fact that on all amino acid lists that are included in nutritional information, you will see only 18 amino of the 20 proteinogenic amino acids. That has to do with the process by which protein is converted to amino acids called hydrolysis. This process breaks down two of the amino acids: glutamine and asparaginine into glutamic acid and aspartic acid. So the standard procedure used to assay amounts of amino acid in food protein does not even provide accurate amounts for 4 of the 20 proteinogenic amino acids! Nor does it distinguish between the amino acid cysteine and its dimer cystine. The amount of cystine in whey protein has a lot to do with its ability to increase levels of glutathione. Further down in this discussion I refer to a study done which attempts to define the relationship between protein composition and effectiveness of a whey protein powder as a glutathione supplement. (Entropy7 (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC))

D-Forms of Amino Acids
I have read claims (Dr. Mercola, for example) that whey protein isolates are very high in reverse-form (right-handed or D-) amino acid isomers, whereas whey protein concentrates are not. Is this true? Has anyone actually done the analysis? I'd like to see this issue addressed in the main article. (D-Form amino acids are not biologically active and they accumulate in the body, so if true, long-term use of isolates may not be good.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.195.11.31 (talk) 17:32, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Facts?
"Excessive use of protein can cause liver problems." -- I am almost sure that the liver problem dilemma is not valid anymore.

"However, Whey protein that has been sufficiently diluted will not be absorbed by the body. The ideal ratio of water to whey protein changes from person to person, so balance must be found on an individual basis." -- What? So too much water in my shake will worsen the uptake? I have never heard of that. Where can I find more information? --81.216.196.144 22:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Water does not affect whey protein in any way.
 * The liver "dilemma" was never a problem. There was some mention in the past about high-protein diets and kidney strain, but nothing about the liver. I can't see how whey protein specifically can cause liver problems when numerous other foods also contain protein. I've removed the paragraph until someone can provide a verifiable source for such a ludicrous statement. Same with the water statement. It looks more like vandalism to me. Yankees76 21:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

You could have liver problems if you constantly have too much protien and not enough carbs/fat so your body is forced to use proteins for energy, which is toxic and strains the liver. I don't have sources Elie 21:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Gluconeogenesis is a natural function of the liver - however I'm interested in seeing sources for what you're saying. Yankees76 21:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Also i think this page can be merged with the page about whey most of the text is repeated anyway Elie 21:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I came here specifically for information about whey protein, specifically the concentrate / isolate / hydrosylate distinction, the effect of temperature, and the specific form of the proteins in each. This article proved precisely on-target for what I think is not a too-uncommon set of questions, so I think its independent status is useful. The parts that are redundant with whey could be replaced with links, which might help reduce the effort needed for updates.Inhumandecency (talk) 16:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Whey is not lactose-free
The source for this article is questionable and does not give much information regarding the production of whey protein. There are various methods used to produce whey that provide important insight. Specifically there are 3 methods used to produce whey isolate, each with its' own pro's and con's. This article should be pulled. Most of it has been directly copied from the cited source. -Unsigned
 * Well, I'm lactose intolerant, (allergic to milk, especially in tea/coffee but lactose in general) and I use whey protein to supplement my diet with no problems whatsoever. Maybe it depends on which whey protein brand name you use? 72.68.200.244 22:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You are probably not lactose intolerant but have a problem with the fat in milk and the tianin in coffee/tee. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.151.130.58 (talk) 09:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

"Whey protien isolate" is ok for lactose intolerant people. --Raygunfun (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Whey protein concentrate has higher cholesterol than Whey protein isolate
Whey protein has high cholesterol. In fact, one serving of GNC's Whey Protein powder mix has almost 25% of your daily intake of cholesterol. My doctor warned me that it is one aspect in my diet contributing to higher levels of cholesterol (Which, in turn, can cause heart attacks). Does anyone have any references which show this particular risk in whey protein? It should be mentioned in this article. I won't edit the article until everyone is in consensus about it. Thanks 72.68.200.244 22:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Whey protein concentrate often contains a substantial quantity of cholestrol, while whey protein isolates usually do not. In addition, it is a matter of open debate in the medical community whether dietary cholestrol intake is harmful to otherwise healthy individuals (ie, those not already diagnosed with hyperlipidemia or metabolic syndrome). --Bk0 (Talk) 00:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "by 2002, the lipid hypothesis was accepted by the scientific community as proven,[14] or, as one article stated, "universally recognized as a law."[15]" from Lipid_hypothesis -- Joe2832 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe2832 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Whey protein report
Below is a link to a study that I did on whey protein products wherein I attempt to evaluate performance of various whey protein products as glutathione supplements in a manner as scientific as possible given the extent of available research. Some people would like to use an affordable whey protein powder product as a glutathione supplement but there is little guidance on the pros and cons of such use or characteristics to consider in selecting a product. Therefore, a resource such as this report might be helpful if included in the external links. (In a section called "quantitative validation" I describe a simulation that, as of this date has not yet been completed. The report as a whole is still a rough draft.)

report. Any comments? Entropy7 (talk) 03:41, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like original research to me. Rought drafts of school papers or amatuer research isn't really encyclopedic and shouldn't be included on Wikipedia. See our policy on reliable sources --Yankees76 (talk) 21:59, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Further reading list
I've moved the list of "Further reading" from the article. This is the sort of laundry list of journal citations which at best are ignored and at worst provide an erroneous air of legitimacy to some of this article's more outlandish and poorly sourced claims. There may well be good, useable encyclopedic material in these sources, but it's our job to find that material and distill it rather than dumping a laundry list on the article page. If these references actually contain useful, encyclopedic information about whey protein, then they should be cited individually, in the article text, along with a summary of that information. I've brought the list here so that it's not lost, and so that anyone interested in undertaking such a project will have a starting point. Thoughts? MastCell Talk 17:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me. I've refactored the list out of your comment to permit ongoing edits to it below.LeadSongDog come howl  19:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Health and Whey Proteins at PDRHealth.com Article
 * Bell S J. Whey protein concentrates with and without immunoglobulins: a review. J Med Food. 2000; 3:1-13. (primary source)
 * Bounous G, Batist G, Gold P. Immunoenhancing property of a dietary whey protein in mice: role of glutathione. Clin Invest Med. 1989; 12:154-161. (primary source)
 * Bounous G, Gervais F, Amer V, et al. The influence of dietary whey protein on tissue glutathione and the diseases of aging. Clin Invest Med. 1989; 12:343-349. (primary source)
 * Eason RR, Till SR, et al. Tumor-protective and tumor-promoting actions of dietary whey proteins in an N-methyl-N-nitrosourea model of rat mammary carcinogenesis. Nutr Cancer 2006;55(2):171-7 (primary source)
 * Ellis MH, Short JA & Heiner DC: Anaphylaxis after ingestion of a recently introduced hydrolyzed whey protein formula. J Pediat 1991; 118(1):74-77.  (primary source)
 * Kennedy RS, Konok GP, Bounous G, et al. The use of a whey protein concentrate in the treatment of patients with metastatic carcinoma: a phase I-II clinical study. Anticancer Res. 1995; 15(6B):2643-2649. (primary source)
 * Lothe L & Lindberg T: Cow's milk whey protein elicits symptoms of infantile colic in colicky formula-fed infants: A double-blind crossover study. Pediat 1989; 83(2):262-266. (primary source))
 * Laoprasert N, Wallen ND, Jones RT et al: Anaphylaxis in a milk-allergic child following ingestion of lemon sorbet containing trace quantities of milk. J Food Protection 1998; 61(1):1522-1524. (primary source)
 * Papenburg R, Bounous G, Fleiszner D, Gold P. Dietary milk proteins inhibit the development of dimethylhydrazine-induced malignancy. Tumor Biol. 1990; 11:129-136. (primary source)
 * Tong LM, Sasaki S, McClements DJ, Decker EA. Mechanisms of the antioxidant activity of a high molecular weight fraction of whey. J Agric Food Chem. 2000; 48:1473-1478. (primary source)
 * Vandenplas Y, Hauser B, Van den Borre C, et al. Effect of a whey hydrolysate prophylaxis of atopic disease. Ann Allergy. 1992; 68:419-424. (primary source)
 * Wong CW, Watson DL. Immunomodulatory effects of dietary whey proteins in mice. J Dairy Res. 1995; (primary source)

Reviews:
 * (review)
 * (review)
 * (review)
 * (review)
 * (review)

bioactive compounds
In the Major forms section it mentions the differing levels of bioactive compounds is different types. What are these and why are they relivent? Raygunfun (talk) 12:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Health section
Under the health section it states:

"Health experts have criticized protein shakes as being unnecessary for most people that consume them, since most users already get enough protein in the normal diet."

However, the phrase "health experts" is the same phrase used in the cited article and it is vague. Also, "normal diet" is also vague but clearly some persons will benefit from additional protein if building muscle. A person who has a purpose of building muscle probably requires higher protein and this distinction should be made so as not to confuse readers who consider extra muscle a health benefit (clearly this is true for rehab programs). I can find citations if needed for the assertion that extra protein is needed to build muscle efficiently. Also, it would be useful to include the name of the brand that contained relatively high levels of toxins and when they were manufactured. I think this info. may be included in the cited article if anyone has it.

I've never posted here before so if any suggestions didn't make sense, I would be interested in knowing what the policy is so I can read it.

Externalmonologue (talk) 04:01, 17 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Welcome to Wikipedia. Please put new discussions at the bottom of a talk page.
 * I have made an attempt at re-wording that paragraph. The applicable guidelines here are:
 * Manual of Style (words to watch); see the sections on weasel words and puffery.
 * Reliable sources - it is important that sources for the claims you want to make be considered reliable.
 * Verifiability - it is important for the sources to be verifiable (for example, while your personal trainer at your health club may be a reliable source of information, that source isn't verifiable by the general population like a book or news article would be).
 * Hope that helps. ~Amatulić (talk) 05:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

What type of Whey protein is best for vegetarians
I've heard the isolate is the best? Anyone know? Also, is it true that whey protein is not a complete protein source with all the necessary amino acids? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.95.185.139 (talk) 17:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Whey protein does possess all 20 amino acides, though I'm not sure about the relevance to vegetarianism. The Cap&#39;n (talk) 19:37, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Refimprove
Most of this article lacks reliable citations, instead citing the "Whey Protein Institute" (an industry advocate), "Davisco Foods" (a vendor with an obvious vested interest), and "BodyBuilding.com" (ditto). There are ample journal articles, now listed under Further reading. It should be a simple matter to support any of the assertions ftrom these and dispense with the advertisers.LeadSongDog come howl  17:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

"In particular, leucine plays a key role in initiating the transcription of protein synthesis.[21]" This sentence doesn't make any sense. Does leucine contribute to transcription initiation (first step of RNA synthesis), or to translation initiation (the first step of protein synthesis)? Since it's an amino acid, and amino acids are the constituents of proteins, I would assume the latter, in which case the word "transcription" doesn't belong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.199.93 (talk) 05:16, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Controversial Health Benefits
The Whey page is neutral whereas this Whey-protein page is not. I seems to sound like a large advertisement for whey protein. Stateing, "preclinical studies in rodents have suggested that whey protein may possess anti-inflammatory or anti-cancer properties" in the first paragraph is not neutral. The rodent study could easily be finished and correlated with numbers of other rodent studies to be verified. Making these claims without one reference is marketing at best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BryonV (talk • contribs) 06:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree this article seems biased. There is also quiet a bit of use of the word "some" as in "some people" and "some studies". The particular studies should be stated and the statements about "some people" should be clarified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soirat (talk • contribs) 17:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Whey protein and muscle building
I've been reading the summary of the article '16', and i think the quote that has been choosen is kinda misleading. If we take the line before, it states "Results showed that protein supplementation during resistance training, independent of source [they are comparing whey, soy and placebo], increased lean tissue mass and strength over isocaloric placebo and resistance training (P < 0.05). We conclude that young adults who supplement with protein during a structured resistance training program experience minimal beneficial effects in lean tissue mass and strength." I'm not a native speaker so maybe i don't understand correctly (please forgive me in that case). But the quote in the article seems to suggest whey protein has no effet and the longer quote says the contrary to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.178.15.156 (talk) 21:44, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Whey protein and muscle building Visual and Effects sub sections?
The visual section cites a personal video as proof of the efficacy of whey protein in regards to muscle building. This video is purely circumstantial and provides very little if any scientific evidence.

The effects section goes off-topic and discusses the risks of Gynecomastia in men which is completely irrelevant to the main topic and is simply cherry picking one of the many health problems that can occur if you live an unhealthy lifestyle.

Suggesting either a rework of these sections or possible removal entirely, while merging the "benefits" subsection into the main paragraph as it contains valid research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.200.82 (talk) 20:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Whey protein in animal feed
Although I'm sure most people know this cheese waste product as an over-priced body building supplement, it might be pertinent to mention that most whey protein is/has always been utilized in the animal feed production industry, and this sector likely has much better studies on nutritional qualities than some of these dubious studies citing exceptional health benefit claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.171.204.45 (talk) 18:40, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Reference 17 Hulmi et al (2009)
The link I provided to the full article actually goes to the library database of Rowan University (my alma matter) and access is limited to current or matriculated students. I was wondering if anyone could provide an alternative link to the full-text which can be accessed publically? --Sanjev Rajaram (talk) 19:35, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Never mind I rectified the issue. --Sanjev Rajaram (talk) 19:39, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Please convert this article from "servings" to understandable units.
Wikipedia now says: "Whey has approximately three grams of leucine per Serving and the Threshold for optimal protein synthesis is three grams".

How does one define a "serving" here?

And what about the "Threshold"? For average sized man, is 3 grams optimal or is it just a threshold for minimum benefits, with more benefits with a bigger "serving"?

ee1518 (talk) 14:30, 28 August 2016 (UTC)