Talk:Whiggamore Raid

False etymology?
Oxford English Dictionary defines Whiggamore as Hist
 * Originally, One of a body of insurgents of the West of Scotland who in 1648 marched on Edinburgh, their expedition being called the ‘whiggamore raid, road, or inroad’; later (contemptuous), = WHIG n.2 2.
 * Whig, n.2 and a. 1. A yokel, country bumpkin. Obs. rare.

The Oxford English Dictionary gives a different etymology for whiggamore
 * The form whig(g)amore, used by Bp. Burnet in the often cited passage given s.v. WHIG n.2 ... which is prob. f. WHIG v.1 + mere, MARE n.1

and comments:
 * The word whiggam adduced by Burnet as a term used in driving horses is unsupported by evidence

The OED states that WHIG as a verb is "1. trans. To urge forward, drive briskly.". So whiggamore means to drive a mare. So according to the OED it has nothing to do with so sour milk. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 13:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Note the OED also has the word "whig, n.1"
 * Now Sc. and dial.
 * Variously applied to   (a) sour milk or cream,    (b) whey,    (c) buttermilk,    (d) a beverage consisting of whey fermented and flavoured with herbs.

With an etymology
 * [Of unascertained origin, but presumably related to WHEY. (The variation of whig and wig in Sc. is remarkable.)]

The OED specifically mentions in the etymology of "Whig, n.2 and a" :
 * The supposition that this word is identical with WHIG n.1 (cf. the following quots.) has no historical foundation.

And quotes authors making such a supposition as 1717 DE FOE Mem. Ch. Scot. III. (1844) 68/2; 1721 WODROW Hist. Suff. Ch. Scot. II. ii. I. 263; a1734 NORTH Exam. II. v. §10 (1740) 321

--Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 14:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello Philip. Yes, there are several etymologies... It would be nice to list them all. Do you need a hand with this? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 15:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Even false etymologies, can be listed if notable.... ≈ jossi ≈ (talk)


 * I think that the word as a word would be better in Wiktionary. What I propose instead is that we turn the redirect Whiggamore Raid into an article and redirect Whiggamore and this article to that one. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 17:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, that may work quite well. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Done ... ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Some more sources for the raid
A Google book search on "became known as the Whiggamore raid." returns lots of books that could be used to write more on this subject --PBS (talk) 20:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Stevenson, David. Revolution and counter-revolution in Scotland, 1644-1651, Royal Historical Society, 1977 ISBN 0901050350, 9780901050359 p. 115
 * "News of Hamilton's defeat led to open revolt in the west of Scotland against the Engagers; within a few days several thousand men from Ayrshire and Clydesdale were moving towards Edinburgh in what became known as the whiggamore raid. They were led by Loudoun, Eglinton, Leven, and David Leslie, and Cassillis soon followed with men from Galloway. Whether they had led the revolt from the start, or simply put themselves at the head of a spontaneous rising, or one encouraged by lairds and ministers, is uncertain. The anti-Engagers later claimed that the rising had been planned and the date for it fixed before Hamilton's defeat in England, but this may have been an attempt to restore their credit by suggesting that they had not ingloriously awaited the defeat of the Engagers by English Independents before rising in arms to support the kirk."

Paterson, Raymond Campbell. A land afflicted: Scotland and the Covenanter Wars, 1638-1690,, J. Donald Publishers, 1998. p. 168
 * "This time there was no lack of leadership, Loudoun, who had long since abandoned the Engagement, Eglinton, Leven and David Leslie placed themselves at the head of several thousand men from Ayrshire and Clydesdale. From Galloway, the Earl of Cassillis joined with still more. The insurrection spread from the Solway to the Firth of Clyde, as the local ministers urged their flocks to join. By 28 August the Committee of Estates had received word that the western army was advancing on Edinburgh. This was the beginning of the Whiggamore Raid. The term Whiggamore is of obscure origin. According to Bishop Burnet, it comes from the term 'Whiggam' which the country people of the south west are said to have used to urge on their horses, although the word 'whigg' appears to have been in us in the north west of England to denote a country bumpkin. Whatever the origin, the label was to be a lasting one, eventually abbreviated to Whig to describe, first of all the extreme Covenanters, and afterwards, as a term of abuse for an English political alliance that grew up in the Restoration to oppose the policies of Charles II. ..."

Roberts, John Leonard. Clan, king, and covenant: history of the Highland clans from the Civil War to the Glencoe Massacre, Edinburgh University Press, 2000 ISBN 0748613935, 9780748613939 p. 104

Copyright problem removed
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 * From the history of the article:
 * (cur | prev) 16:31, 15 April 2009‎ PBS (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (4,189 bytes) (+2,533)‎ . . (copied from Battle of Mauchline Muir)
 * [snip around a score of edits] ...
 * (cur | prev) 21:12, 17 August 2013‎ Moonriddengirl (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (1,641 bytes) (-4,084)‎ . . (replacing copyvio; the article was split from an article that was deleted years ago following a copyright complaint) (thank)
 * Whoops! I have now filled in the article with text from a copyright expired source. -- PBS (talk) 10:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, PBS. :) This is an unusual situation, but it sometimes does happen. :/ --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC)