Talk:White Rabbit (song)

Covers?
the damned was just removed from the covers section.. their own website says that they performed a cover in 1980.. which throws into doubt the whole date order of the covers section, if 1980 in fact is referring to the damned. --81.178.97.223 21:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

ok, i think i've sorted that out to the best of my ability --81.178.97.223 21:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

LSD?
White Rabbit seems more to be about magic mushrooms than LSD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A.Arc (talk • contribs) 18:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Although note that the chord progression A-C--D occurs several times in the song.194.81.226.131 (talk) 12:46, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Origins
Several versions (live and studio) exist from the original version written by Grace Slick when a member of Great Society. Although popularised during her time in Jefferson Airplane, the song did not originate with that band nor was it first recorded by them. (There's a very nice vinyl reording from Great Society currently on YouTube that is studio. Concert performances pre-dating her Jefferson Airplane days exist everywhere.) Usually, when lead singers move bands, credits remain with the original band, making Jefferson Airplane's version as much a cover of the original as anything.


 * I've added a section on the history, drawn mostly from the Wikipedia sections on Jefferson Airplane, Grace Slick and The Great Society. I may not have entered it right, and no it doesn't have any references only because I haven't mastered that yet.  But I agree with the above poster, it needed *something* because as written, the article does read as if the song originated with Jefferson Airplane, which is grossly misleading.  Definitely they have the best known version, as The Great Society is pretty obscure in the grand scheme of things, but it's still pretty much a cover.  Nolefan32 (talk) 18:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the text should read the song is by the Great Society. It's not that obscure imo. I knew the Great Society's version before I knew Jefferson Airplane's cover. Stating that it's by Jefferson Airplane, like it does now, just because it's the more 'known' version would set a very sloppy standard for information on wikipedia. 98.212.132.73 (talk) 05:11, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Would be nice, if someone maight have the original single from The Great Society to put it's picture above the JA's vinyl. In addition, the original version has nearly 4 minutes "intro" which is very nicely psychedelic, wich in my eyes makes the original much better.

Lyrics
Are the Lyrics really needed for the entire song? I thought only a small portion,used to demonstrate a point or source would be.As per Lyrics_and_poetry 142.68.78.60 19:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It was a very recent addition, and contrary to the page you mentioned above. I've removed the section, thanks for the catch. -- nae'blis 21:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

One pill makes you Larger

and one pill makes you Small

and the ones that mother gives you

Don't do anything at all.. --CZ:Fatal 11:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrospective interpretations of lyrics don't necessarily reflect original intent. Different members of The Beatles argued for decades over the origins of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds", probably in part because memory cheats. Repeat something often enough, it becmes true for you. Different social conditions also makes different interpretations more acceptable (or useful) than others. Short of something contemporary and never intended for public consumption, claims should surely be treated with a measure of caution, as they can't be objective or tested.


 * "and the ones that mother gives you,


 * Don't do anything at all."


 * Theses lines are a reference to The Pill (contraceptive) - the mother doesn't want the teenage daughter getting pregnant so she gives them to her daughter without telling her what they are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.130.17 (talk) 13:00, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

wrong lyrics
I guess there must be several versions of this song, but I've got an original recording by JA, and the last line is definitely not "Keep your head", but "Feed your head". That's what most lyrcs-website say, too. Someone who knows where that "keep your head" idea came from, should maybe add that there are these two versions (or change it to "feed" entirely). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.20.43.155 (talk) 12:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Soundtrack
It comes to my mind as a faraway memory, but wasn't White Rabbit playing during one of the most stirring scenes from Coming Home (great 1978 Hal Ashby movie starring Jon Voight)? Gegetti 13:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Cultural references
In the first Matrix film Neo is also following a white rabbit (tatoo). I'm not sure but this also could be a reference to the song?


 * It may or may not be true, but I'm guessing that both the movie and the song take the White Rabbit reference directly from Alice in Wonderland. It just might be true that the Matrix refers to the song, but most allusions to this song also contain content dealing with drugs, as was the content of the song itself. -- Nervecenter117 19:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the mention of a supposed link with "follow the white rabbit" in The Matrix. I can't see how that possibly references this song. Good luck finding a citation. DanTheShrew (talk) 13:51, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with not listing The Matrix. Anyone wanting to list White Rabbit references need to be sure that what they're adding is indeed a reference to the song, not to Alice in Wonderland.  Or even if it's not clearly and Alice in Wonderland reference, it still needs to clearly be a reference to the song. Nolefan32 (talk) 19:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Also removed the following:

"In the episode Moe Baby Blues when Maggie asks Moe to read to her from the book Alice in Wonderland, Moe flips through the pages and reading references like White Rabbit (perhaps hinting Playboy bunnies) and chicks popping mushroom pills he decides against reading it to her."

It is my belief that the 'Cultural References' section of the article should list only cultural references to the subject of the article. DanTheShrew (talk) 13:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup. I think the first time I heard this song was in Grace Under Fire. She's been exposed to some gas and it's playing on the radio. On hearing it she says "it's hard to believe these are the guys who went on to do We Built This City" or some such. Thing is it's been in so many things maybe the list should be scrapped.--T. Anthony (talk) 11:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * --Been thinking this *exact* sentiment for Years, but never actually heard someone express it... Finally started watching Grace Under Fire for the first time on reruns, and there she says this... Frankly, this sentiment *is* a cultural-reference, regardless of whether it was stated on TV... The fact it was should remain-noted, if not on the song-page, then at least here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.147.221.11 (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:WhiteRabbit.ogg
The image Image:WhiteRabbit.ogg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --04:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Slick said...
The article says, without any reference whatsoever, "Grace Slick has always said that White Rabbit was intended as a slap toward parents who read their children stories, such as Alice in Wonderland (in which Alice uses several drug-like substances in order to change herself), and then wondered why their children grew up to do drugs."

I heard Grace Slick say the song was intended as an anti-drug song despite being misinterpreted otherwise, and here Wikipedia repeats what may be the misinterpretation without a reliable source.


 * I can hardly image that Grace wrote an anti-drug song as she was quite high while writing it. And, in addition, the wonderful lady tried to drug Nixon (unfortunately it failed), so where is the use of an anti-drug song when you feel quite happy with them....at least at that time.

Something should be done to either add a reliable source to what's there, or get it out completely. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 07:27, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

I seem to recall a radio broadcast, probably from the mid- to late-'80s, with a quote from Grace Slick about the lyric "feed your head" meaning something along the lines of stimulating your imagination naturally by reading fiction, instead of consuming psychoactive substances. I wish I could remember the source, because it's probably a "reliable" one according to Wikipedia standards; if someone wants to try to look it up for the article, I think it was from some sort of themed musical retrospective with commentary, since I think they actually played "White Rabbit" just before or after that; but it could have been from a Top 40 countdown show Rick Dees (or possibly Dick Clark or Casey Kasem) broadcast at a time when Jefferson Starship had a hit song. B7T (talk) 16:25, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Trivia Section
This is just a list of unreferenced banality. It's a classic song, but so what? Of course it is going to be used in a lot of places. BUT what is the significance of that. None as can be seen from the junk in this list.

 Legacy and influence in popular culture With time, the song has become a cultural icon of sorts, and is often referenced when drug use or an ethereal atmosphere is to be implied. While Wikipedia discourages simple lists of trivia, no other format seems appropriate here.
 * On the radio show Lex and Terry, the song is played in the background while the bit Rx Lex is taking place
 * In an episode of The Soup, Joel McHale makes a reference to the song regarding Al Roker's weight by saying "One pill makes you larger, and one staple makes you small..."
 * The drug-themed novel Go Ask Alice takes its name from this song's lyrics. The book's protagonist is never named, but reviewers generally refer to her as "Alice" for the sake of convenience.
 * "On The Right Side Of My Mind," the 11th track on the 1999 Queensrÿche album, Q2K, contains the following reference to White Rabbit:
 * " 'Re-engineer your head' is really what the door mouse said."
 * The song has been used three times on The Simpsons in episodes; "D'oh-in In the Wind," Midnight Rx, and Mona Leaves-a.
 * The song was featured once on Daria, in the episode "The Road Worrier".
 * The song was featured in an episode of The Outer Limits entitled "Vanishing Act."
 * The song was used in an episode of Samantha Who? in which the amnesiac protagonist was in the clinical trial for a type of memory-recovering pills.
 * The song is featured at the end of the 1997 thriller The Game and in the scene where the film's main protagonist discovers his house has been vandalised.
 * Richard Nixon's Head sings this song in the Futurama episode "A Head in the Polls," while making his futuristic presidential bid, telling his audience, "I'm meeting you halfway, you stupid hippies!"
 * The song was mentioned in Hunter S. Thompson's book Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas in a scene in which Dr. Gonzo (the attorney) asks Raoul Duke to throw the tape deck into the bath with him during a bad acid trip:
 * ""White Rabbit." I need rising sound … And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to throw that fuckin' radio into the tub with me!." The scene is also featured in Terry Gilliam's 1998 film version of the book.
 * The song and part of its lyrics are mentioned in Stephen King's book Insomnia in the surreal scene at the beginning of chapter 3.
 * The song was featured in Oliver Stone's Platoon; it is played in the background of the "Feel Good Cave" as the soldiers are getting high.
 * In 2005, "White Rabbit" was featured in a delicate drug-related scene in Atom Egoyan's movie Where the Truth Lies.
 * "White Rabbit" played in the background on the popular hit TV series Blossom during the episode where Blossom's Dad had a nightmare that Blossom and her friend Six were in her bedroom smoking a joint.
 * A "White Rabbit" cover portion has been a consistent part of Blue Man Group shows since their inception, and was released on their 2003 album "The Complex," with the song featuring the vocal talent of Esthero
 * The song was played during the "Down Neck" episode of HBO's The Sopranos during a scene where Tony Soprano takes Prozac for his panic attacks. It is also played again at the end of the episode.
 * In the movie Stoned (2005), the song is played when Brian Jones takes LSD for the first time.
 * The song is played during a drug-related skit on an episode of The Daily Show.
 * The song was played in the background in the 3rd Rock from the Sun episode "The Dicks They Are A-Changin'" when Dick comes to Dr. Albright's apartment to remember the sixties.
 * The protagonist of Tithe: A Modern Faerie Tale, Kaye, listens to this song whilst lying in her bedroom letting her pet rats roam on the shelves with her old dolls.
 * The song was featured in "Hunted," an episode (season 2, episode 10) of The CW's Supernatural.
 * The song is used as the base beat for the song "Rabbit Hole" by the Underground Hip-Hop artists Living Legends.
 * The song both serves as an opening and is discussed in episode 2 of VH1's Drug Years series, which tells of the 1960s counterculture.
 * In 2006, excerpts from the song were used in a show entitled Volume 2: Through the Looking Glass performed by The Cadets Drum and Bugle Corps, which is filled with references to Alice in Wonderland.
 * In Zero Skateboard's Dying to Live skate video, the song is skated to by Lindsey Robertson in his part.
 * A cover of the song, performed by Collide, plays in the ending credits of the film Resident Evil: Extinction in regards to the main character whose name is Alice.
 * The intro to the song is played in several episodes of Scrubs, although usually as filler music and not in reference to drugs.
 * The opening lyrics of the song are sampled towards the end of the song "El Camino" by Ween on their album GodWeenSatan: The Oneness.
 * An edited version of the song is featured in a commercial for Mistwalker's video game Lost Odyssey for the Xbox 360
 * The song can be heard briefly in the film Purple Haze
 * The song is also featured in Shaun White Snowboarding
 * The song is also heard in the video game Conflict: Vietnam
 * Oakland Athletics starting pitcher Trevor Cahill uses the song while warming up before each of his starts.
 * Marvel supervillian White Rabbit sings part of the song in Dark Reign: Mister Negative #1.
 * Roy Zimmerman tells you that "You're a psychedelic relic" (song title) if you are the only one on your ward who remembers what the dormouse said.
 * The song was played in an episode of Warehouse 13, where a mirror containing the spirit of a deranged young woman named Alice escapes and takes control of the body of a main character. The mirror is said to have belonged to Lewis Carrol, the author of Alice's Adventures In Wonderland.
 * The instrumental version is the menu theme for Battlefield Vietnam. This version includes audio of Hanoi Hannah and Richard Nixon.
 * In the American Dad episode 'In Country... Club', played when Steve gets immersed in a Vietnam re-enactment.
 * In 'The Devil and Sam Oliver', the final episode of the series Reaper (CW network), a cover of the song by Audra Hardt is played after Sock drinks from a slushy containing a psychedelic frog.
 * John Constantine sings it a few times in "DC's Legends of Tomorrow" just before they depart for Woodstock.


 * I don't mind the list of references. I have one more.

Many sites on the Internet state that this song was used with a video mashup of scenes from various Star Trek Original series episodes. I haven't been able to find out who did it. And I hear the line, "Tonight, tonight, tonight", which isn't in the lyrics. That turns out to be from "Revolution Song", apparently from Standing on the Shoulder of Giants, the fourth studio album by English rock band Oasis, according to Wikipedia.

Most of the sites I found which have the video, have the version with "Revolution Song", but they still identify it as a mashup with "White Rabbit".

Youtube has a version with "Revolution Song".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUA35XQxxw8&feature=player_embedded#!

And this site has the version with "White Rabbit."

http://starcrossedgirl.livejournal.com/290985.html?mode=reply

But that link takes you to a site where you have to register and sign in to see the video. And, I don't see much connection between "Revolution Song" and the video.

Immediately after posting this note I went back to the starcrossedgirl site and found this other link, where you don't have to sign in. So you can see the video here. Sorry 'bout that.

http://blip.tv/starcrossedgirl/white-rabbit-musicvid-2319989

99.9.112.31 (talk) 20:11, 1 March 2012 (UTC)NotWillRiker

Whose interpretation is this?
''While the Red Queen and the White Knight are both mentioned in the song, the references are incorrect in detail. In Lewis Carroll's original text, the White Knight does not talk backward and it is the Queen of Hearts, not the Red Queen, who says "Off with her head!" The movie Alice In Wonderland (1951) often refers to the Queen of Hearts as the Red Queen. It may be interpreted differently due to the hallucinogenic effects referenced in the song, which may explain why the White Knight is speaking backwards.''

The sentence "It may be interpreted differently due to the hallucinogenic effects referenced in the song, which may explain why the White Knight is speaking backwards" is totally unsourced and sounds like someone's rather unimpressive attempt to justify the lyrics. Do we need this little explanation, which is almost an insult to the intelligence?

203.169.48.225 (talk) 13:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Relation to Carroll text
As the song does not claim to be an exegesis of the original text, it is POV to suggest that it is incorrect. I hope this version helps solve this problem.Leutha (talk) 21:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Genesis
The entire "Genesis" section, besides not being about the genesis of the song, is commentary, and not even very interesting at that. It should be properly sourced or removed altogether. 86.41.45.3 (talk) 19:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that Genesis is a poor title, but I don't see what needs to be sourced. The section makes factual statements about Lewis Carroll's book, a movie, and the song's lyrics.  Readers can consult those works to verify or examine context.


 * The only opinion or original research I see would be the very last sentence. On the whole, I think the section does offer information of interest.


 * Yeah, gotta get a different title, though.


 * Willondon (talk) 11:56, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Just like to add another vote for the removal of the Genesis section whatever its title. I found it pointless and boring. HappyGod (talk) 15:31, 2 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Done . Willondon (talk) 01:48, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Lyrics and Composition
This section compares the crescendo in the song with Ravel's Bolero, going on to say the latter is on Miles Davis and Gil Evans' album, Sketches of Spain. Bolero doesn't appear on Sketches of Spain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.222.127.213 (talk) 10:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe it has to be read differently: Miles Davis and Gil Evans use an impressive crescendo on their record, too. It doesn't mean the Bolero is on it (I don't know Sketches of Spain).--Wosch21149 (talk) 08:50, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I checked Sketches of Spain and there is definitely no Bolero on it. I also double checked the interview and Slick does say "the Bolero on Sketches of Spain" (avoiding obvious jokes about the effects of psychadelics on long term memory). I updated the article to be accurate, I think its still a good quote because I never thought of it before but the song really does show the inspiration of Bolero, they both are one long crescendo and there is a similar underlying rhythm. I changed the article to be accurate, to make it clear that Slick mentioned Bolero even though its not on that Miles Davis album. (I've looked to see if Davis did do a version of Bolero and couldn't find one, it sounds like it would be great if he did).  Mdebellis (talk) 12:59, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't have any real musical knowledge unfotunately, but if 'bolero' is not just a specific Ravel tune, but a type of music tune, then perhaps she means the 'Solea' track on sketches of spain - that is maybe 'the 'bolero' on sketches of spain' - listening to it on youtube at about 2:00 onwards, I can just hear the vocal fitting over it 'and if you go chas-ing rab-bits..'- ace music, whateverSayerslle (talk) 23:41, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Bolero is a specific work by Ravel. Ravel's Bolero is actually one of the best known pieces of classical music, its almost a cliche like The Nutcracker. I think Grace was just mixed up, was thinking about two different influences, that she was listening to Ravel's Bolero and Sketches of Spain. One reason I think that is the opening beat of White Rabbit and the way it builds really is a lot like Ravel's Bolero. Its funny I never noticed it before but once I read that and thought about it I recognized the resemblance right away.  I found a web site that actually says just that -- that the Airplane were listening to Miles and Ravel --  but it has no references or credibility. But thanks for the heads up on Sketches of Spain. I'm getting a CD from the library and will listen to it. Perhaps if it makes sense I'll revise the text and indicate that Solea was what Ms. Slick was probably referring to. Mdebellis (talk) 00:49, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The song's title is not mentioned in the lyrics. The closest to it is the line: "And if you go chasing rabbits/, and you know you're gonna fall."?. Alice does chase the White Rabbit into a cave, slips on some pebbles inside and falls over thousands of feet to the bottom. Also, there are deliberate errors in the song's lyrics, where the characters from the "Alice" books are mixed up. First of all, the White Knight does not talk backwards, it's the Jabbarocky character from "Though the Looking Glass" who speaks in reverse. The White Knight repeatedly falls off his horse.Secondly, the Red Queen does not say "OFF WITH HER HEAD", Those lines are sternly spoken by the Queen of Hearts from "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland." The Red Queen was tough, but not that stern as the Queen of Hearts. Finally, the Dormouse, in the Mad Tea Party chapter, also from "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", never said the repeated line that concludes the song: "FEED YOUR HEAD". Nobody in the "Alice" books quoted that line either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.220.86.220 (talk) 23:50, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

No mention
No mention anywhere of the incredible bass playing by Jack Casady? Shame. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.83.108.242 (talk • contribs) 09:49, 1 February 2016
 * The personnel should be listed... but we would need a reliable source for "incredible". Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:08, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Comments on key signature
It may not be correct to state that 'White Rabbit' is written in the key of F sharp minor (F#m). The sheet music referred to in the citation has a key signature of three sharps, which can indicate the key of F#m, but also its relative major, which is A. The song begins with a bass figure on F#, but the final chord, which is a more reliable guide, resolves emphatically to A major. All the chords in the song appear to be major, which they would not be in a minor key. The opening chord is given as F# major in online chord charts, not minor, and playing an F# minor over the F# bars doesn't sound right. The root notes of the other chords, A - C - D - E - G, suggest a pentatonic/blues scale in A. If the song was written in the key of F#m, the other two chords of the I-IV-V triad, Bm and C#m, would be expected to appear. The probability appears to be, therefore, that 'White Rabbit' is in the key of A major.194.81.226.132 (talk) 14:13, 26 June 2021 (UTC) (with later additions: also 194.81.226.131)


 * In the Guardian “How we did this” for the song, Grace Slick explicitly said: “ The song is in F sharp”. 45.72.174.147 (talk) 04:37, 5 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The overall structure seems to point to the key of A major rather than F sharp minor, with the F# - G bass riff consisting of the 6th and flattened 7th of an A major scale. The use of a flamenco-style F# Phrygian mode has also been suggested. 194.81.226.131 (talk) 14:55, 5 October 2021 (UTC) (with later additions: also 194.81.226.132)


 * We are not here to figure out the key signature or chord sequences. Rather, our collective job is to summarize for the reader what has been published about the song. If publications talk about the key or chord sequence, we can quote those. Otherwise, leave it alone. Binksternet (talk) 17:29, 29 October 2021(UTC)


 * The discussion arose because the song was originally stated to be in the key of F sharp minor, but the source (sheet music) was found to indicate that either F#m or A major was possible. It was decided for the reasons given that F#m was unlikely, and the statement was amended to read "key of A major". If this goes beyond permissible limits, delete. (As someone has already pointed out, the key is irrelevant anyway.) 194.81.226.131 (talk) 12:57, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * It was specifically you that I was speaking to when I said "we are not here to figure out" the song through a process of analyzing the sheet music, or listening, or whatever else. That job is for the media. We are here to summarize the media. Binksternet (talk) 16:53, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Point taken. Edit was made in good faith. 194.81.226.132 (talk) 11:58, 1 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Insisting that Slick could have meant F# minor, and therefore probably did, might possibly be interpreted as speculation. (What happened to "We are not here to figure out the key signature"?) And it is not clear how a piece of music that appears to consist entirely of major chords can be in a minor key. 194.81.226.131 (talk) 11:21, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The debate could perhaps be resolved if the chords used in the song were all fifths (root-fifth-octave). With no third, they -- and presumably the key -- would be neither minor nor major. 194.81.226.132 (talk) 15:07, 15 February 2023 (UTC)