Talk:White Terror (Spain)

Error on Pablo Picasso
Pablo Picasso was NOT exiled by Francisco Franco. He lived in France during AND AFTER the Spanish Civil War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.153.115.152 (talk) 16:33, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Definition of exile accordin to the Britannica online: "prolonged ABSENCE from one’s country IMPOSED by vested authority as a punitive measure. It most likely originated among early civilizations from the practice of designating an offender an outcast and depriving him of the comfort and protection of his group."

Definition of exile according to Wikipedia: “Exile means to be away from one's home (i.e. city, state or country), while either being explicitly REFUSED PERMISSION TO RETURN and/or being threatened with imprisonment or death upon return. It can be a form of punishment and solitude. "

According to the Birmingham University, Pablo Picasso was a exile. Picasso was not expelled by the francoist government, but he could not live or even visit Spain. How many times Picasso visited Spain between 1939 and his death in 1973? Sorry, about my poor english.Ajfernandez2001 (talk) 19:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Look
There is plenty of info on the Francisco Franco page relating to persecution after the Spanish Civil War. Someone should have a look, I have to go...

Liquidcentre (talk) 17:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

High number of inline citations
The article rightly has many inline citations but I'd like to suggest that where an item has more than one citation to it, we can reduce this number by removing the Spanish-language ones, as the English ones probably suffice. Obviously where there is no English reference, we can keep the Spanish one.

I don't want to start removing anything without consensus first, especially from the two main editors of this article as they have put a lot of work into it, but I think that to better comply with Wikipedia referencing guidelines, we should keep the Spanish-language references to a minimum. Feedback? --Technopat (talk) 03:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

NPOV
At a brief glance, the introduction needs some attention, as it loses some of the required neutral encyclopaedic tone. &bull; \ / (⁂) 12:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Any suggestions for solving it?--Technopat (talk) 13:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Having a quote bolded in the intro goes against MoS, but seems to push the viewpoint that the coup was designed to threaten the population. Words such as 'atrocities' in the intro, however accurate, aren't neutral. Try rewording it into three short introductory paragraphs. The first paragraph to describe what it is, the second to describe what happened, and the third to note the modern analysis and understanding of the event. The first sentence could be:
 * In Spain, White Terror (also known as Represión Franquista) refers to the acts of the Nationalist movement during the Spanish Civil War and during Francisco Franco's dictatorship.
 * It's the last paragraph that has me concerned, it explicitly states the goals of the acts without giving significant context. &bull; \ / (⁂) 21:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for suggestions - fully agree. Just one doubt: when you refer to your concern over the "last paragraph" do you mean the last of the three introductory paras. or the last para. of the article? --Technopat (talk) 22:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above issues have been addressed. Are there any other issues outstanding? Do "we therefore leave the NPOV tag up until there is a consensus that it should be removed."? The subject is necessarily controversial but that doesn't mean the article needs to have the NPOV tag up if/when it no longer comes across as non-encyclopedic. Feedback, please. --Technopat (talk) 14:16, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Nice work!
Simply to drop a thumbs up here, neutrally written and well referenced.Nice work! :) Dr Benway (talk) 22:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Seriously? This article doesn't seem to be at all neutral, starting the problem of Spain's democratically elected government and not noting that it barely had a plurality when it started to rock the boat and turned assassination squads loose on the Catholics, and ending with leaving out Stalin's henchmen who were as interested in assassinating Spanish Anarchists as they were Franco's followers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.3.44.12 (talk) 07:32, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

If this article is what passes for objectivity in wikipedia, no wonder wikipedia is considered such a joke. This is a totally biased article, written in a persuasive style. It's just terrible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.246.162.76 (talk) 16:10, 25 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Agreed this a pro-communist leftists piece. Communists have murdered 100 million and we are supposed to be sympathetic to them. The only good communist is a dead one.49.206.14.51 (talk) 14:46, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * This is not a space to have behavior of this type, although there may be a bias in this article, there is also a bias in the "Red terror" article, and for this reason we will not accuse each other of being communists or fascists. Ricki 2112 (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Estimates
I have added a (referenced) ridiculously low estimate to compensate the (unreferenced) ridiculously high estimate of 800,000.213.4.112.58 (talk) 14:28, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I propose to eliminate the lowest (60.000) and the highest estimates (800.000). Today the works of Salas Larrazabal are considered useless by most of the historians. The first sentence could be: Estimates range from 150.000 to 400.000. (both estimates referenced). Ajfernandez2001 (talk) 12:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that seems reasonable.213.4.112.58 (talk) 15:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

In the years 40 more of 200.000 was starved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.55.209.20 (talk) 01:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)


 * (This comment comes from Zaragoza.)
 * "In the 1940s, more than 200,000 were starved."
 * Are you saying, deliberately starved, like Stalin in the Ukraine?
 * Or was there a famine, in Extremadura for example, at that time?
 * Varlaam (talk) 15:21, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Red Terror
Commies in Catalonia and International Brigades had their own concentraion camps

LEFTIST (RED TERROR)UNDERSTATED ON THIS PAGE read more: http://libcom.org/files/The%20Battle%20for%20Spain_%20The%20Spani%20-%20Anthony%20Beevor.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.90.255.19 (talk) 05:09, 9 May 2014 (UTC)


 * that is irrelevant in this article, that would have to go in "Red terror", here only the atrocities committed by the Francoist side are mentioned. Ricki 2112 (talk) 00:34, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Change the name
White terror? Seriously? Today is the first time in my life that I read this. Why isn't the title Francoist Repression? Everyone calls it like this. I believe the title should be something that people recognize easily, not this. 88.21.175.49 (talk) 23:11, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Page move
This page was moved in December without discussion from a previously stable title by an editor who has already been asked to leave several times. So I have reverted the move and the change in the lead sentence, per WP:BMB. I trust everyone here is OK with that. Moonraker12 (talk) 16:43, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Citation needed for radical recount by alternate history writer.
,,Komuniści i ich lewaccy sojusznicy wymordowali 72 344 ludzi i zagłodzili ponad 100 tys. Frankiści mają zaś na swoim koncie około 32 021 ofiar. Do tej ostatniej cyfry należy dodać 22 641 osób straconych po wojnie. Egzekucje te były jednak skutkiem". [Communists and their allies killed 72,344 people and sentenced to death by starvation about 100,000. The Francoists killed 32 021 people during the war, after the war 22,200 people were killed] https://opinie.wp.pl/francisco-franco-jedyny-przywodca-ktory-pokonal-stalina-6126039183566977a — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erni120 (talk • contribs) 22:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Polish nationalist propaganda. :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.233.210 (talk) 08:43, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Inline refs
Does anyone object to me converting this page to inline refs? We have so many long refs to just a few books that the page size could be substantially reduced making it much easier to follow when editing.Mztourist (talk) 06:35, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No comments received so I went ahead and did it, reducing the page size by 15,000 bytes. Mztourist (talk) 08:10, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

White terror
The name "white terror" lacks correspondence in the Spanish language, where it is unanimously referred as Francoist repression. It should be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.4.241.55 (talk) 05:30, 6 January 2020 (UTC)


 * if there really isn't a correspondence to the term "White Terror" then the page name should be changed to fit the native term for the conflict. How many signatures are needed before we can do this?  ~  Magpiesmeanstoeuphoria (talk) 16:05, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

What the hell does the second paragraph mean?
The second paragraph of the introduction is unreadable (and if you really take the time to read it, tendentious). I'd be fine seeing this from a reliable source or as a quotation from a scholarly publication, but it doesn't belong in the introduction without attribution. I moved it into the body and noted that this was the opinion of Sanchez Leon. 94.173.249.145 (talk) 19:21, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Crimes against humanity category removal
Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)