Talk:White phosphorus munitions/Archives/2015/August

Ukraine and Russia
I wanted to let you know that I took the liberty of reverting your edit. Contrary to what you assert, there is no proof of a russian invasion of Ukraine and no independant international organization (like the UN) holds this position. I am of the opinion that an encyclopaedia should not publish controversial rumours as proven facts. If you think am wrong, please let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Againstdisinformation (talk • contribs) 02:20, August 10, 2015‎


 * You're wrong. There are 524 references that in the 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine which demonstrates at a minimum they are not a neutral party there. Do not add references to blogs an you tube videos. Thank you. --Dual Freq (talk) 02:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, the references in that article are from sources that are not reliable and certainly not neutral in the conflict.I would like to see references to unquestionably reliable sources like the UN or the OSCE. Until you provide at least one, I consider your claims as lacking neutrality and not deserving to appear in an encyclopaedia. By the way, I too consider references to blogs and youtube videos as an awful practice. I did not put them in the article, they were present in the previous version but I left them untouched. Now, your edit looks like a biased qualifier of the previous, main sentence. I suggest that, at the very least, you consider rephrasing it. Out of courtesy, I shall not revert your changes until you let me know a little more about your position on the subject at hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Againstdisinformation (talk • contribs) 03:19, August 10, 2015

As an afterthought, I would also like to point out that the article you are citing 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine is in itself a piece of propaganda unworthy of Wikipedia. See the talk page of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Againstdisinformation (talk • contribs) 04:25, August 10, 2015‎‎


 * I've moved the above conversation from my talk page so that others may contribute since it pertains to this article. The article War in Donbass lists Russia as a belligerent and that is quite clearly confirmed by the numerous sources listed in the 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine. I added to this article that they were clearly not neutral, which is as unbiased language that could be used for a conflict they are clearly involved in. You should take it up with editors at those two articles. If you'd like to discuss propaganda, then the claims from both sides regarding WP are both good examples of that. --Dual Freq (talk) 22:28, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Certainly, The two articles you mention 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine and War in Donbass are good examples of propaganda and should not be included in Wikipedia. Their sources, though numerous, are less than reliable. Dubious media outlets, hearsay and such neutral voices as Jen Psaki of the US State Department and President Petro Poroshenko of Ukraine. By your standards, the US is also a party to the conflict since, of its own admission, it has troops on the ground (173rd Airborne Brigade). I am certain, however, that you would strongly object to a comment dismissing a reference to the Washington Post as unreliable due to the fact that it is part of the American corporate media and that the US is a belligerent in the conflict. And you would be right. You would not expect to read such slanted comments in a respectable encyclopedia, like Encyclopedia Britannica for instance. It appears, as illustrated by the two articles you mention, and of whose existence I was unaware, that some people, motivated by a political agenda, have decided to hijack Wikipedia for their own purposes. The first casualty of this game is not the truth, which always emerges. Rather, it is Wikipedia's reputation. I am determined to protect it, since Wikipedia is one of the best tools the Internet has given us in order to disseminate knowlege.Againstdisinformation (talk) 02:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


 * "Some Russian soldiers are deserting the army because of the conflict in Ukraine. Their stories contradict the Kremlin's assertion that no government soldiers have been sent there." Other stuff from Al Jazeera
 * owned by the royal family of Quatar.--Savonneux (talk) 20:19, 13 August 2015 (UTC)