Talk:White trash/Archive 2

"White Trash" The Beverage
Found this recipe on the world wide web: Warning: "Do not drink and drive", Do not drink while pregnant and Do not drink if high risk for breast cancer. Drink responsibly. Paradigmbuff 03:09, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * 1 shot Vodka
 * Ginger ale (add to taste)
 * 1 Lime wedge
 * Pour over ice

Inaccurate definition.
The explanation for what "White trash" means is extremely problematic: "White trash (extended: poor white trash) is a racial epithet usually used to describe certain low income caucasians who exhibit crude manners or low moral standards." These are classist stereotypes of poor whites, and they shouldn't be used to define the term. --Pinko1977 02:19, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, and I have modified the definition to read as follows: White trash (extended: poor white trash) is a racial epithet usually used to describe certain low income caucasians, especially characterized by crude manners or abnormally low moral standards.


 * Here are my feelings:


 * It's definetly a racial epithet
 * It's usually applied to low income whites (and when it's not, it's intend to imply that one's behavior mimics this stereotype)
 * It's most commonly cited as a response to someone's rude behavior or immoral thoughts or actions


 * If anyone disagrees with one of these points, lets discuss! Robbyslaughter 02:17, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I think this, like chav are more classist than racist. They seem to mean all poor whites and *seem* to be mainly used by the lower middle class. Secretlondon 19:46, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * It'd be outstanding if someone who is white trash could write a counterpoint, as this whole article is written by people who look down on said other folks. Dean 16:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Racist?
I question the reference that "White Trash believe that caucasians "discovered" America and caucasians are "Supreme race", I don't know that these attributes are generally applied to poor rural whites in the USA, certainly some are racist, but the notion of "Supremer Race" is more consistent with European socialist circa 1939...

(European Socialists circa 1939 were too busy being killed by the the Socialist-despising Nazis )who were no more Socialist than W Bush's Welfare policies, despite their misuse of the epithet in their full title!) Its like confusing Irish Republicanism with the Republican Party or anti-Monarchists in the UK (all are Republicans of a sort, but the sorts can be in contrast to each other...or am I patronising you ? If so sorry but you're deliberately libeling millions of Europeans who died in the name of human rights, while the U.S. government profited from fascists like Hitler and his persecution of Socialists)82.41.4.66 23:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Wrong Information among the White Race.

 * The term "White Trash" is widely used among the White Race, as a White person who procreates outside their race. Hence, there has been no other VALID reason for using the term "White Trash."

This Encyclopedia has MANY indiscretions.


 * No, it's not, and that argument has no logical consistency, even internally. Also, I wasn't aware an encyclopdia can have "indiscretions;" are you referring to a nightly tryst with Britannica? -  Jersyko   talk  20:01, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

White trash in fiction and film
Icemountain removed a bunch of references as unsourced, but all of them do list the books or films, so they are sourced.--JWB 19:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

They exist as works, but what source says they are about "White Trash" specifically? I mean, find one review of S.E. Hinton's book that says it's about White Trash. The book is about teens. Whoever put those links up indivdually "thinks" they are about White Trash, but that's just one person's opinion and thus original research. Icemountain 01:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Googling hinton outsiders white trash gives lots of reference to the use of the term "white trash" in the book.--JWB 01:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * OK Icemountain 22:58, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

The Outsiders by S.E Hinton is generally confined to the 1950s culture of Greasers, a teen culture. Some of the white trash examples are fairly outdated, and generally its comparing lower class to upper class rather then white trash. - Boochan 14:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Heavy Metal?
White Trash are portrayed as listening to heavy metal? Never heard of this.. Maybe Country Music? Boochan 12:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

-

-

Why is "white trash" stated outright in the article to be an "ethnic slur" and a "racial etitaph" in the very first line, whereas "nigger" (on its wikipedia page) is merely described as a "extremely controversial term"? Only after reading two whole paragraphs in the wikipedia article for nigger" (in the 15th line), would the reader find that nigger is even "considered to be" a racial epithet.

Also, note the exact phrasing: "white trash  is  an ethnic slur and an racial etitaph, whereas nigger is only considered to be an racial epitaph. This is no small difference!

11/4/05

-- White trash as I see them are people of a low class and low ambition. The difference between the term "white trash" and "nigger" is that what the terms say about the person. If you use nigger as a slur you are using it to insult a person solely becuase they are black. White trash,however, is used as a much more specific attack on somebody. It then means that you are attacking their lifestyle and choices. If you call somebody white trash you are making a less generalized statement than if you use a slur such as nigger of wetback.

I would also say that stereotypical white trash listen to metal as well. White trash doesn't neccassarily imply hick, I would say it implies a lack of self respect, an inability to operate under the values of society, as well as a dysfunctional family which leads to the ability to not have a strong value system. If I imagine a standard metal head,that would be somebody who works on a very simplistic level, that likes to "rock out with their cock out". They typically do not have a good job, or even goals for that matter. When I think of typical white trash values, it's a trans-am, a stereo system, and a trophy girl.

I do not find white trash offensive because labels are important to our and any society. I would also have to say that most people who get called white trash are done so justly, because they reflect the same simple value system that is associated with white trash.

“White Trash” is not an attack on one's lifestyle choices so much as it is a way of demeaning people who to not live standard middle to upper class lives. In most cases the target of the slur will never have made a conscious choice to live and act like white trash. Unlike middle class Americans, they are not afforded the luxury of choosing the kind of lifestyle they wish to have or of choosing whether or not to have self respect. White trash may be most accurately classified as a classist insult. --YellowLeftHand 22:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

- The meaning of "white trash" is revealed by the ethnicity and class of the speaker versus the ethnicity and class of the people referred to. Invariably, the term applies to light skinned people whose ancestors, looking back over the past 1000 years or so, come from the majority ethnic groups of the British Isles or, to a much lesser extent, other northwestern European lands. It is ethnically and racially defined and it is undoubtedly seen as a slur by the people it refers to, excluding perhaps the lower half of the intelligence range. Thus, it is as much an ethnic slur as a racial one. It is generally used by members of other ethnic groups. That is, the users of this term are almost invariably within the top 5 % of the income distribution or the top 5% of the wealth distribution of the USA, or they are members of ethnic or racial groups which generally would not be eligible for this "harmless" slur. Generally, the users of this term have all seen themselves as of non-British descent, in my experience. It usually is used in a context justifying some sort of harmful act against such people, and is always seen as a not only justified term but one which enobles the user. In short, it is a stock term for ethno-political sterotyping and as shameful and stupid as other such derogatory slurs are. Its use is very similar too. If you are not mostly descended from the British in their various flavors, do *NOT* use this term or tolerate those who do. Permission to use it, to *THINK* it from wealthy, powerful "whites" does nothing to reduce the stench from this sterotyped racial and ethnic slur.

It is astounding that this subject is even a topic for intelligent discussion. It is a derogatory ethnic and class term from the 19th, 18th, and 17th centuries in North America useful mainly as an excuse for dastardly acts.

Explaining my revert
I agree with the basic point made by User:70.20.232.17 -- the media is shamefully silent in admonishing people who use the phrase "white trash". Even so, I'm reverting for these reasons: I won't object if anyone wants to reinsert the information in a way that addresses at least most of these concerns. --Allen 17:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The insertion is unreferenced.
 * Who uses the phrase has nothing to do with race or class; all sorts of people use it.
 * The insertion is party redundant with the first paragraph.
 * The insertion interrupted the flow of the writing.

The second paragraph
I don't think that "white trash" are upsetting anyone's understanding of what to be white is; I think they just amuse or upset people as being "unrefined" or "low-class." There doesn't seem to be anything particularly non-white about "white trash," and their existence isn't such a new or surprising thing that anyone's boundaries should be shaken. I think it is one author's opinion, and I'm not confident that many other people agree with her. Do we really think that white identity is shaken, that "white trash act black"? In particular, I don't think the "poor black" and "white trash" stereotypes closely match besides both describing poverty. I vote to strike the second paragraph and the reference. Does anyone agree? &mdash;Vivacissamamente 07:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Better: who disagrees? Vivacissamamente 06:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm no sociologist, but that author's theory does sound plausible to me. And I feel like I've heard it before; I think it might be implicit with the defendant's accuser in "To Kill a Mockingbird".  But right now it's worded as fact, when, as you point out, it's clearly opinion.  I won't object if you take it out as POV, but would you be okay with it if someone else (probably not me; I've never read that book) later added it back with more appropriate wording?  --Allen 04:05, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Fair enough; it's been removed, pending revision. The theory makes it sound like all people accepting the white trash stereotype do so out of racism, and I seriously doubt that. I thought Mayella Ewell in To Kill a Mockingbird accused Tom Robinson of rape because her father had caught her trying to seduce him and had beaten her, and they wanted it to be Robinson's fault. I'm not clear how that connects to the theory that "white trash" are resented because they seem to exhibit stereotypical "black" behavior... please explain? &mdash;Vivacissamamente 04:19, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * About the Ewells... my feeling was that Lee, by putting that extreme "white trash" stereotype on display right next to the jury's display of anti-black racism, was inviting us to draw connections between the two kinds of prejudice. I don't have the book with me, but didn't she put the Ewells' house right next to the black section of town?  I think I interpreted that to mean that "white trash" were seen by other whites as belonging in the same category as blacks, or nearly so, and that other whites saw blacks and "white trash" as sharing a disrespectability that was basically of the same kind. But in addition to not being a sociologist, I don't have a great track record with literary interpretation.  So I'll pretty much take your word for it if I was off on that.


 * And then about the theory on "white trash". I agree with you that not all, and maybe not even many, people who accept the white trash stereotype today do so out of anti-black racism.  And reading again the paragraph you took out, I see you're right -- it was saying that people today who use the phrase harbor anti-black prejudice.  What I find plausible (and perhaps what Newitz meant in context, for all I know) is that anti-black racism might have helped cause the development of the white trash stereotype, even though it now has a life of its own.  --Allen 05:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's an interesting origin story; maybe I'll rework it to raise it as a possibility. I don't recall the book well (I think I read it in middle school), but I seem to recall that Walter Cunningham was a nice poor "white trash" boy who Scout liked, so maybe an analogy of prejudices was being drawn that I missed. Vivacissamamente 20:39, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * One user's disagreement with a source does not seem reason to remove it. Hyacinth 10:39, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * So it's your contention that it's fact and not opinion that people who stereotype "white trash" do so out of racism [against blacks] (despite the fact that the first people who used the term were aristocratic slaves), and it is our place as Wikipedia to promote the view (of this book) that this is in fact the case? I understand that my opinion doesn't matter to you, but the passage seems to be POV. &mdash;Vivacissamamente 14:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * So it's your contention that "aristocratic slaves" cannot be racist? Is it also your contention that wikipedia not cite sources? Hyacinth 08:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I rather meant that while the text you defend seemed to claim the white trash stereotype is a reflection of racism against blacks, it seems slaves, although it's of course possible that they too harbored racist views of blacks, would be less likely to blame "white trash" for "acting black." I don't know.

As for citing sources, after I removed your text (which I should instead have refactored), the material that came from that source seemed to be gone, so I deleted the source too. I agree that I shouldn't have done that. I apologize. &mdash;Vivacissamamente 11:27, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

text may or may not belong, but not racist in any obvious sense
Cantus, I feel you were out of line to refer to Hyacinth's text as racist. That is far too strong a word. Please see WP:CIVIL. Furthermore, there is in fact an ongoing discussion about much of that text on the Talk page, and Hyacinth has participated in it. Please contribute to it if you can do so constructively. --Allen 22:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Good luck. If you cast your eye even briefly over C's work you will see that s/he typically does not bother to respond at all to requests to engage in constructive discussion on talk pages, let alone civilly. Case in point: Michelle Bachelet. If you feel the deletion of the subject text was "out of line" (which I note is referenced), then please ensure that reversions to reinstate the text are maintained. BLUE 09:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you, BLUE, for NPOVing the material that I (overenthusiastically) deleted. &mdash;Vivacissamamente 12:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

You all would do well to note that the text is not "mine" but a summary. Hyacinth 12:50, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I meant yours in the sense that you contributed it to Wikipedia. I didn't mean to imply that you necessarily agreed with Newitz; I'm sorry if it sounded that way.  --Allen 17:00, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

stereotype list
I'm trying to clean up the stereotype list just a bit, though a lot more work is needed. While none of the stereotypes are explicitly referenced, I think that's okay, temporarily, for those that are unchallenged. But I'm removing some of the ones that I've never heard of, that seem obscure, or that seem like stereotypes of the wrong group. I'm also clearing up some of the more obvious redundancy. --Allen 23:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

need to qualify the "white" in white trash?
The veracity of the quote "Some people argue that 'white trash' is racist, not because it includes the word 'white,' but because it implies that trashiness is the normal state for non-white people and thus when a white person is trashy it must be specified that the person is white" is debateable. To begin, how many are "some people?" Does a small number of people who use the term unconventionally warrant mentioning as a counterpoint to the dominant usage? EVERYONE I have witnessed using this term (most of whom were middle class whites) have used it to describe people who are perceived to be the "trash" of whites, NOT the "whites" of the trash [read: "non-white" in this context]; they have referred to whites, without a hidden reference to non-whites. If I rationally presume that non-whites who use the term also refer to the perceived "trash" of the whites, without a hidden reference to themselves, and/or also, more importantly, as an elided term (trash=white), then the term can indeed be used in a racist manner, but the objects in this case are white, which the article overlooks. Kemet 13 April 2006.


 * "Some people" is a Weasel word and there should be guidelines for dealing with the term there.
 * Yes, the term is racist towards non-white and white people. It is racist towards white people in that it attempts to constrain their behaviour through comparing it negatively to those of non-white people. Hyacinth 04:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Drug use
In the activities list, something that should probably be considered is use and manufacture of crystal meth, since that seems to be a drug which is primarily associated with "white trash." Willbyr 14:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

?
This is a waste of bandwidth.LIllIi 23:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the article has problems, but I think the article could be improved and should stay. What would you think of deleting the list of stereotypes, and requiring that any new stereotypes in the list have reliable sources, and be re-worded so that it is clearer that the stereotypes don't apply to any real group of people?  --Allen 23:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The list of stereotypes is ridiculously offensive. There is no sourcing and no other article that I've seen does anything like this. How quickly would a similiar list in the nigger article be reverted? Witness:

People described as a nigger consistently have similar characteristics:

* Lack of education, i.e. school drop-outs, supposedly often due to teenage pregnancy, drugs or crime. * Anti-social behaviour in public, such as drunkenness, heavy smoking, swearing, being loud and crude.

The section should be removed, in my opinion. - Ray 68.11.235.232 03:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't think that "Nigger" is a proper analog to "White Trash". First of all, it is definitely a term that is more used by whites regarding whites - so a better analog would maybe be the black usage of "Boojie" (or however you would spell it)to connote the bourgeoise sensibilities of upper-class blacks, or, in lower class blacks, creating the image of upper-class-ness. I don't think that white trash-ness depends on wealth necessarily - it's more a sensibility that is derived from a culture originating in poverty (sorry if my sentences are a little bad. Very tired). Roseanne Barr's eponymous show is a good example of white trash aesthetic/behavior to an extent. And on that show, after she wins the lottery, her sensibilities remain intact. Hulk Hogan is far from poor, but something of a white trash icon...216.158.233.219 (talk) 19:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)Morningwindow

Clinton Era
Should there be something in here about former President Bill Clinton? I'm thinking in particular of the Paula Jones scandal, his advisor James Carville made lots of public comments about Ms. Jones being "trailer park trash" and I think this helped popularize the white trash/trailer trash labels. JME 66.72.215.225


 * Only if someone can find a reputable, third-party source for the idea that such statements helped popularize the labels. --Allen 01:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

in the arts
I think all entries in the "white trash in the arts" section should be deleted unless a reliable source can be given showing that the work actually uses the term "white trash" or that a third-party source uses the term in discussing the work. Thoughts? --Allen 03:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No response, so I've gone ahead. --Allen 22:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

ranch dressing?
first, i would like to defend this page against those who say it shouldnt be here. just because the term is offensive, or the people frowned upon by society...has nothing to do with the page itself. this is a site that covers everything about everything. moving on - since when is white trash associated with ranch dressing? is that a joke someone slipped in? i've never heard white trash being associated with ranch dressing before. someone please explain this to me. Strawberryfire 07:53, 2 August 2006 UTC


 * It stuck out as an obvious joke to me as well so I removed it. If someone wants to put it back get a source. Thedoorhinge 14:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

stereotype list
Anyone have a source for "white trash" stereotypes? I suspect the list now includes a lot of entries that are not documented stereotypes, but just jokes or descriptions of particular fictional characters. If no one has sources for these, I think we should delete the list. --Allen 00:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Rather than delete them all, I've deleted all those that I personally have any doubt about. If anyone has any doubt about the ones remaining, I think they should be deleted as well, even if that means there are no stereotypes that no one has any doubt about.  Ultimately, of course, everything in the article should be sourced.  --Allen 20:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

"wigger" section
I deleted the section about the word "wigger" because it duplicates information in the Wigger article. An anonymous user re-added the section without comment. Please explain here, on the talk page, why you think the section should be included. --Allen 04:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No response; re-deleting. --Allen 20:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Robert Byrd
The Robert Bryd quotes that keep getting replaced here have nothing to do with 'white trash'. This isn't the place for inserting irrelivant information just to express one's politics or opinion of a political figure, as indicated by the username of the individual posting it. It has been removed. Please refrain from replacing it. It is already mentioned in the relevant articles and has no place here. Castlecraver 01:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

please explain this addition
I reverted the following addition, because it is an opinion, rather than a verifiable fact:
 * One important consideration to note is the fact that the connotation of bigotry reflected with this term is no less offensive than any other undesireable minority or ethnic slur.

But the anonymous editor who first inserted it reverted my revert without leaving an edit summary. Could the anonymous editor please explain why you disagree with my view that this violates WP:NPOV and WP:V? If someone notable said this, then we could attribute it to them. Otherwise, I think it should be removed again. --Allen 01:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

details section
The "details" section seems lacking in quality to me, and has been completely unsourced for a long time. I suggest we remove it. I'm sure decent sources exist that look at the details of modern "white trash" stereotypes, and when somebody who has such a source feels like writing a better "details" section, it will be easy to re-add to the article. --Allen 03:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

source for different definition in new England?
71.146.98.184, do you have a source for the definition of "white trash" being different in New England? I've never heard of this. It sounds a bit like the type of thing anyone in the country might say to defend use of the term against criticism from an anti-classism perspective. --Allen 06:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protect?
It looks like more than half of the last 50 edits on this page have been vandalism or reversions of vandalism. I think this page needs to be semi-protected. Compare Mulatto. --Smack (talk) 23:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Non-Latino Caucasians?
I don't understand why it specifically states that the term is used to describe Non-Latino Caucasians. I have heard the term used by many European Spaniards & Portuguese & Latin American Caucasians to describe one another. I think that particular definition is severely flawed and a byproduct a flawed and bias North American interpretation of the terminology (as opposed to a traditional/factual interpretation).

74.230.146.172 23:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)Herald

Ocassional observed anecdotal usage is not an adequate support, and this is clearly an English phrase and not a Spanish or Portuguese phrase.

Relative Geographical Term
We should have something in the article not only about the racist and classist elements of the term, but the geographical as well. There is much scholarly research out there on how white people, say, from Indiana tend to look down on people from Kentucky as white trash, how people from Kentucky look down on those from Tennessee and Arkansas as white trash, how the Arkansawers look down on people from Lousiana and Mississippi as white trash, and how almost all white Southerners who use the term "white trash" look down on white people from Alabama. Even within Alabama, the historically pro-Union northern Alabamians have always tended to look down on the southern Alabamians as being a bunch of "white trash" and "hicks."

Socio-culturally and even politically, these terms have been used historically (and still very often in a contemporary sense) by white Southerners to feel superior to white people who live further south than they do. It is an interesting phenomenon, much documented in the critical literature. Just as African-Americans have been looked down on historically depending on how dark their skin is, white Southerners have been looked down on by other white Southerners based on how far south they live.

And it's interesting that the whites of southern Alabama have no other white people to look down on--which is one theory for why southern Alabamians have historically been so vicious in their hatred of African-Americans.Qworty 04:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

opening paragraph: POV and unsourced
The opening paragraph that editors have been fighting over is both POV and unsourced, which is not a good combination. Why don't we just say that some people think "white trash" is racist or classist, and others disagree? Then at least we'll be NPOV, and someone can add sources later. --Allen 19:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Elements of the stereotype== ==

There are no descriptions of stereotypes for other derogatory ethnicity specific terms. If there were, they'd be gone in a heartbeat.

Leave what defines white-trash to the imagination.

All that crap about Tattoo sporting rednecks who hunt their own meat and get pregnant at a young age, may very well be the truth, but it doesn't need to spelled out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by InTheCity (talk • contribs) 00:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Inconsistency in "Origins and contexts"
The "Origins and contexts" section begins, "The term white trash began in the Baltimore and Washington, DC area in the post-civil war reconstruction boom ...." But it the next paragraph starts, "'White trash' first came into common use in the 1830s ..., " and the following one starts "Harriet Beecher Stowe entitled a chapter 'Poor White Trash' ...." That would place the 1830's and 1854 sometime after the Civil War. :-) I don't know enough about the term myself to make appropriate corrections--though I did make a minor typographical correction. JMRyan 18:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think I wrote the wrong war when I added the material from the Wray article. Then the Wray article link was deleted.  Hopefully that fixes it somewhat, although the article is still chaotic. Best, Smmurphy(Talk) 19:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Note on heading
I would like to note that the 1820's were nowhere near the Revolutionary War, though quite close to the War of 1812, which ended in 1814 and an economic crash in the late 18 teens —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.253.21.3 (talk) 02:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Economic status has nothing to do with it
"To call someone white trash is to accuse a white person of being economically .... bankrupt"  Economic status has nothing to do with the lable 'white trash'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.32.255 (talk) 15:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That is entirely subjective. Colloquially, white trash is used to refer to high school dropouts or high school graduates performing unskilled labor. Calling someone poor is not racist. Racist implies racism. There is no racism in pointing out that someone is poor plebe who enjoys the baser things in life. Also there is nothing inherently wrong with being unsophisticated, it is a matter of taste/choice. If ANYTHING, white trash is classist, as it specifically creates a schism between 'mainstream' well-to-do whites and the proverbial unwashed masses. There is a huge difference between class discrimination and racism. And further, trying to piggy back one's class cause onto racism out of convenience is in itself the "white trash" thing to do.Vrlak (talk) 19:47, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Racist
I see on this page that this adjective on the term "white trash" in the lead sentence has been debated for some while, yet it still appears totally uncited. So I've removed it until someone can source a good cite that shows it's not original research and unspecified personal opinion. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Etymology of "White Trash"
-- Meaning of White Trash

Re: etymology of white trash, word history of phrase "white trash," dictionary white trash, thesaurus white trash, meaning of white trash

Greenberg: The phrase "white trash" originally meant a white person who procreated with a non-white person, but it recently has taken on a wider meaning.

The poet T.S. Eliot also considered "white trash" to be a white person who fornicated with a non-white.

http://meaningofwhitetrash.blogspot.com/2008/11/meaning-of-white-trash_14.html --Elizabethburton88 (talk) 01:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The politically correct term is "Caucasian Debris"
I can't resist: this week end I've heard than the polically correct patrols are now asking for "Caucasian Debris" to be used instead of "White Trash". After "Merry Christmas", here is another one that will disappear. Gosh! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.77.226 (talk) 20:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

What is this?
Found at the beginning of the article;

"It may also be used self-referentially by white north Americans with higher socioeconomic status to jokingly describe limitations they sense in their culture."

Says who? But more importantly, what is this but a sourceless attempt at justifying the term and to sneak in the author's subjective views about the "limitations" of an ethnicity or culture?

I think that this is not at all fit for an encyclopedic text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.49.115.204 (talk) 19:46, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The equivalent term for "white trash"
The equivalent term for "white trash", applied to black people, is "ghetto". These two words map together almost exactly: the fact that they include social and economic class as well as race; that they also refer to negative stereotypes of behaviors; and even that they are sometimes used self-referentially by the groups in question.

The idea that the term "white trash" is meant as a slur on non-whites is preposterous; racism is one of the negative traits attributed to "white trash". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.237.222 (talk) 01:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Additional note: a cursory scan of the Internet will show that many, many uses of the term "white trash" are definitely not intended as a slur on nonwhite people. Quite often, it is used by people to express hatred for racism and racists; only they credit all poor white people as racist. (And sometimes more than that--one pull was from an Obama supporter referring to Hillary Clinton supporters as "slack jawed" and "white trash".) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.237.222 (talk) 01:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The traditional definition of white trash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v35OCXoQuTQ

Why not include something about this? Why trash originally meant a white person who procreates with a non-white. Why all the political correctness? --Beth19841984 (talk) 19:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I have never heard Thomas Jefferson referred to as white trash. Nor have I ever heard white trash used to refer specifically to inter-racial couples. I have heard it linked with incest, but never as a necessary act. While I'm not old enough to know what the exact meaning was in the 1830's, in my experience it is always linked to both poverty and ignorance. Nitpyck (talk) 02:05, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

NPOV
The NPOV rules in Wikipedia require that all sides be presented when they are based on significant, reliable sources. Blanking because an one editor dislikes the information and does not want readers to know about it violated the neutrality rule. If an editor has a reliable source with contradictory information it should be ADDED, not subtracted.Rjensen (talk) 19:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

"Self-referentially"
"but may also be used self-referentially by whites of higher socio-economic status to jokingly describe limitations they sense in their culture."

What is self-referential about a high class white person calling a poor white person "white trash"? The previous sentence just got finished saying it refers to poor white people, which rich white people are not. General-Septem (talk) 05:22, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * people use it to talk humorously about their roots ("I grew up white trash") Rjensen (talk) 06:57, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Sitcoms
I mean that the Sitcoms is the head of the "white trash" cultur, because its makes the headform of the negative american lifestyle.

Rene Nguyen 2010-07-13 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.122.88.69 (talk) 13:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

White Trash vs Redneck
Rednecks aren't necessarily either uneducated or poor. This refers to the "redneck" lifestyle. Outdoors, wearing camouflage, Dixie-related clothing, hunting, etc. There are wealthy, and educated rednecks.

64.139.239.77 (talk) 09:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Racisim...
It's racist because it presupposes that white people aren't trash. It's used usually (as far as I've seen) by white people to say "white, but still trash". It's not a slur, per say, but it's used in a racist way. 71.234.123.137 (talk) 00:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

That is certainly a view taken by some. Can you write that up in a way that it will fit into the article? Sources, etc. Eastcote (talk) 02:38, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * it's mostly a black term denigrating whites. Rjensen (talk) 02:57, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Not in my experience, and I'm an old white southerner. African americans use the term to denigrate some whites, but so do whites. It's not a racist term, as those target a race, not a subset. In any case, our opinions don't count as it's all about what sources say. --Nuujinn (talk) 12:16, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Black popular culture
I don't think "folklore" is the right word here.... PurpleChez (talk) 18:14, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

== "The term suggests outcasts from respectable society living on the fringes of the social order who are seen as dangerous because they may be criminal, unpredictable, and without respect for authority w ==

"The term suggests outcasts from respectable society living on the fringes of the social order who are seen as dangerous because they may be criminal, unpredictable, and without respect for authority whether it be political, legal, or moral."

The above quote is cited and offered as a leading part of the definition of "white trash" in the article. This qualification however is misleading, because it suggests that being "dangerous," for the reasons listed, is an essential association of the word. Whether or not these attributes are true about people often stereotyped as white trash, the term is not generally used to denote or highlight these characteristics. The claim that this is an essential element of "white trash," is therefore a misleading part of the definition in this article.

(Utopiantoken (talk) 00:49, 10 August 2011 (UTC))


 * Can you point to a source? --Nuujinn (talk) 01:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * the sentence quoted is footnoted to Matt Wray, Not Quite White: White Trash and the Boundaries of Whiteness (2006) p. 2, --the standard scholarly history of the topic--which makes that assertion; also Wray pp 22, 36-38. Other scholars likewise. ("White trash saw themselves as above the law and as a consequence they were dangerous." Hooks, Where we stand: class matters - Page 112]; ["I grew up a mixed-race, white-trash girl in a country that considered me dangerous, corrupt, fascinating, exotic. I responded to the challenge by becoming that alarming, hazardous, sexually disruptive woman." My dangerous desires (2000) by Amber L. Hollibaugh]. Rjensen (talk) 05:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)