Talk:Who Shot Ya?

Suggest
I suggest that there should be an article about Who Shot Ya. This song caused tension in the East-West war, and it caused Pac to make Hit 'Em Up and start the feud. Even if it wasn't a diss, or even if it was released before Pac was shot, it should still have an article. It is significant enough to deserve one. 202.69.183.2 11:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The East-West war was started by TIM DOG and did not have anything to do with Pac and biggie until 1994 When Pac was shot

A response to Tupac's Old School
It should be noted in the contexts, rap comes from street performing, and part of street rapping is battling or doing dirty dozens back and forth. It is from the general battling mode that this song is from. In the context of this Who Shot you song, Biggie was responding Tupac's Old School battle rap single. In that song, Tupac raps about many rappers being in a previous time era than what is current. Noticeably, tupac didn't feel like doing battle raps back and forth during the time of release of biggies single, for he was having difficulties with his legal case and getting shot, so he took it as personal and beyond rap.

2020 Article Changes
This article is not a place for lengthy speculation on the 1994 shooting of Tupac Shakur. It is clear upon looking at the revision history that a contributor named Occurring is chiefly responsible for inflating the page to five times it's original length between late May and early June of 2020. The additions include improper grammar, poor citations, and content irrelevant to any crucial information about the song. The April 4, 2020 edit appears to be the last sensible version of the page.

I'm not sure what to do. It seems to me this article should revert to it's previous form but I am unable to do this. At the very least this matter should be discussed before doing anything.


 * I somewhat empathize about "lengthy speculation on the 1994 shooting" and "content irrelevant to any crucial information about the song." I try to limit the discussion to what is best corroborated and established and whose removal would obfuscate the historical context and cultural significance of the song.  In line with Wikipedia guidelines, this article, unlike a database entry or only lyrical analysis, ought to prioritize historical and cultural context and significance.


 * As to "poor citations", if there are any, they should be easy to point out. I think, on the contrary, I have added many authoritative citations more reliable than the ones in what you call "the last sensible version of the page".  Perhaps the complaint about the citations is their demonstrating that the song's historical and cultural context is overwhelmingly the 1994 shooting.  I don't think that this Wikipedia article's discussion of the shooting  is "lengthy".  I think it's exceptionally concise and lucid for this topic.


 * Perhaps some discussion of the shooting or rumors can be trimmed. That would take great care, and would likely call for moving content into explanatory notes, or else the trimming would gratuitously obfuscate the song's historical context and cultural significance, and leave readers largely confused or clueless.  Otherwise, though, I included a dedicated section just on the song production and release, and a different section on the production's backstory.  Since these did not even exist in the 4 April 2020 version that you endorse, I don't really grasp your complaint.  Offering examples and cogent revelation via Wikipedia guidelines, not sheer personal opinion, might help more.


 * Anyhow, the 4 April 2020 version is very amateurish, full of gaps, and poses facile or nearsighted allegations or explanations either at face value without counterpoint or with ultimately irrelevant counterpoint. It alleges Puffy's guilt all from a 2008 Chuck Thomas article subsequently disputed and retracted.  Why include that?  It also reveals Dexter Isaac's supposed confession as a shooter hired by Jimmy Henchman, but omits the later, major dispute of it.  I include both confession and dispute in merely a note, as it's fairy irrelevant.  Tupac and most sources that speculate suggest it was Jimmy Henchman, no need for the Isaacs two cents.  Not here to solve the case, we're merely summarizing the rumors and suspicions that mediated the "Who Shot Ya" saga.


 * Also, the 4 April 2020 version has a citation to a college newspaper that reads like a 9th grader's book report after merely skimming the book: "While Biggie was producing and recording his entourage's (Junior Mafia) debut album in New York City’s Quad Studios, Tupac decided to come over and pay a visit. During Pac's attempt to take an elevator up to the top of the building to go visit Biggie in the studio, he was robbed and shot. Luckily, Tupac survived the incident, but became understandably furious about the incident. He felt that Biggie either knew about what had went down that night or was directly responsible for it. Biggie and his entourage denied any links to the shooting. That's when things began to dwindle." [Archive, "Who shot ya? Biggie and Tupac", Massachusetts Daily Collegian, 16 Sep 2002]


 * No, Tupac hadn't merely "decided to come over and pay a visit" to Biggie. Tupac was hired by Jimmy Henchman to record a song with rapper Little Shawn, while Andre Harrell, the Uptown Records boss, was there awaiting Tupac on a floor different from Biggie. Nor did Tupac "attempt to take an elevator", but "was robbed and shot". The gunmen were waiting in the lobby, where he was robbed, and then he went upstairs on the elevator, but perhaps not "up to the top".  Indeed, though, "things began to dwindle".  Although I don't write like that, my alleged addition of "improper grammar" is false.  If written with a simple clause structure, the article could be about twice as long.  Once one learns or grows accustomed to heeding commas to recognize nested clauses, the article reads perfectly fine, just too advanced for a child or low adolescent reading level.  —   Occurring (talk) 07:03, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Clean up
I love how much info is in this article, but it really needs to be cleaned up. Very hard to follow if you’re not intimate with the details. 2603:6000:F040:46:2920:8353:FC15:6B58 (talk) 15:24, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, the writing is pretty bad. Bueller 007 (talk) 16:13, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Issue
This article reads like a newspaper report or biography. M@R10FYREFLOWER 19:30, 28 November 2022 (UTC)