Talk:Wiccan (character)

Clear Up
I've done some clearing up on this page. One entire paragraph was copied twice here word-for-word, just a few lines further down the page! A lot of the information (such as letters pages in the comic books) are better suited to the article for the actual comic, rather than in a character biography, but if you have anything to say, I'm open to discussion - Just trying to help. = Avengers fan 18:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Only proper nouns get capitalised in English...
I only put capitals there because I was assuming that is what we are calling his powers. If we're calling his powers that, it makes them names, and the capitals after each comma just made it look neater...

I Don't Get It

 * Ok, I don't get the "obvious puns" on the names Asgardian & Hulkling. I haven't read the comics, and I don't know what Asgardian looks like. Please fill me in. Thanks!


 * The pun isn't about their codenames together, it's about their relationship. Asgardian = Ass Guardian. --60.226.54.29 20:21, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, As-Gay-dian.

Mother and Sons Reunion
It seems clear to me that the Super Skrull is right and that Tommy and Billy are the children of Wanda and the Vision. I fervently hope that Scarlet Witch gets to meet her children and be healed of the cruel affliction to her soul. The horrible story of Wanda and her children has haunted and tormented me for decades. It is so wonderful that there may at last be a happy ending to this unhappy story. Das Baz, 28 April 2006, 3:41 PM. Allan Heinberg, in the letters page of YA 10, promises that in issue 11 Tommy and Billy will learn "the truth" about their origin. So what Kl'rt reveals in issue 11 is without doubt the truth. Das Baz, 13 May 2006, 12:16 Noon.
 * Weren't her twins originally just pseudo-illusions/constructs she made with her "Probability Control" powers (how else could a human and an android/ Synthezoid have kids?), and were later revealed to be shards of Mephisto's shattered/scattered soul? I.e., they were never really real in the first place? Dr Archeville 17:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That was a retcon from Byrne. This is another retcon, unretconning Byrne's retcon. :p --DrBat 13:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Uggg. I'd forgotten we have Byrne to "thank" for that retcon. CovenantD 14:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, even if Billy and Tommy were once unreal illusions, now they are real enough in their universe. Now they have the powers of Wanda and of her brother - powers apparently transmitted through the spirit rather than through DNA. Imagination may become reality. It happens all the time. Das Baz 16:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC) Tommy and Billy, as Magneto's grandchildren on their mother's side, were Jewish in their former incarnation. And now they are Jewish again. Cosmic karma. Das Baz 16:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

If the official Marvel website says Wanda is the mother of Billy and Tommy, that should settle that discussion. But perhaps "spiritually" would be a more apt word than "biologically." Das Baz 20:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

At last, the question has been settled. Mother Wanda and her sons are joyfully reunited. I for one feel healed and at peace. Das Baz, aka Erudil 17:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Mutant?
Has Wiccan been stated to be a mutant in any comic book? If not, then several of the categories listed are speculation and need to be removed. CovenantD 20:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * He thinks he is (but so did Hulkling before he discovered his true parentage).
 * If he's the son of the Scarlet Witch, which is what is being implied right now, he probably is. --DrBat 19:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if it was ever stated anywhere, but to be honest "mutant"-issues mostly seem to be covered in the X-Men related titles. With all the over mutants in the Marvelverse that belong to other comic-lines it seems as though they are living on another planet. I might be wrong but if Wiccan is a mutant he didn't seem to have been faced with the same issues that mutants of his age normally had to go through, especially since the Decimation storyline.--Inugami-bargho (talk) 12:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

The Princes of the House of Magnus
A new complication is introuced by the strange interlude of the House of M. Wanda is seen enjoying quality time with her toddler twin sons. Are these Billy and Tommy rejuvenated? Or are they a new pair of twins created by her? If the latter, Does this mean each twin has a twin of sorts? Will they ever meet each other? Erudil 16:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC) Or maybe Billy and Tommy are the Princes of the House of M, and they exist as they do nowadays precisely because of those events. Erudil 17:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I doubt it.
 * The twins probably stopped existing after HoM, and I doubt they were connected to Billy and Tommy because if Wanda knew about their existence she wouldn't have gone crazy trying to recreate them. --DrBat 00:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe Wanda does not understand the nature of what she does. She probably believed the twins were real and had always been the way they were since they were born, not realizing that she had probably plucked them out of Limbo. Or maybe she rejuvenated them without realizing she was doing so - and after the House of M, they reverted to their real ages. She may be near-omnipotent, but she certainly is not omniscient. Erudil 18:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Civil War POV
I didn't tag this section, but I have nonetheless tried to weed out the offending adjectives. Also, I cut out parts of the Civil War storyline that I feel don't have much to do with Wiccan personally. This section read a bit too much like a plot synopsis of the whole story. Also, I removed speculation about future events and big showdowns and such. Hopefully, this helped improve this section. Cheers. --GentlemanGhost 21:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Reference?
I noticed that Wiccan and Hulkling's real names can be abbreviated further to 'Bill and Ted.' Think it could be deliberate? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_ted In the uncensored movie there's a point where Bill and Ted hug each other in relief after realizing neither of them are dead, but then back away quickly and call each other gay. It'd be a real sneaky way of poking fun at those characters, if the reference was intended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.210.123.98 (talk • contribs) 04:50, 31 May 2007

In the 9th, and concluding, episode of "Avengers- the Children's Crusade," Bill and Ted (Wiccan and Hulking), decide to get married and seal their engagement with a big kiss that is both a major turning point and a classic. Das Baz, aka Erudil 18:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Last Avengers Story
Young Avengers #1 was not the first time Billy (and Tommy) played a key part in a Marvel story - they both were pretty major characters in the alternative universe story "The Last Avengers Story" which came out back in 1995. I don't know if this is, in fact, his first appearance, but until further information is gathered, perhaps it is worth citing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.163.246 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 27 June 2007

A better image of Wiccan
I think the image of Wiccan in the cover of Young Avengers Presents #3 would be a better image of him for his article. However Speed is also on the cover so I was wondering what anyone else opinions of the idea are first.
 * Sorry for not responding to this sooner. I personally feel that it isn't.  The positioning of the character looks awkward, he looks "lippy," and the side of his costume is mis-colored.  I'd rather stick with the original or another.Luminum (talk) 01:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Asgardwicc.PNG
Image:Asgardwicc.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Name
We are not talking about someone like Hank Pym; Billy only used the name "Asgardian" for six issues before changing it. --DrBat (talk) 16:44, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * He still has more than one codename. Brian Boru is awesome (talk) 23:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Since this is not a noncontroversial move, put it up for discussion. --DrBat (talk) 23:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I discourage such a move, a codename for story purposes is not the same as change in name. Clark Kent went by Gangbuster and Nova for brief periods, but rightfully so he remains Superman.  I discourage such a move.  Wiccan is the most common name. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 20:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC).
 * He was first as superman. But wiccan was first as asgardian. Brian Boru is awesome (talk) 23:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be best if such a move was discussed and, like 66.109.248.114 said, Wiccan is his common name, regardless if he uses multiple code names or not. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel that as it was his original codename, and was used to introduce his character as a template of Thor, it should be noted as another alias. Readers who pick up the first YA issues would be confused otherwise until they reach the end of the story arc.  Likewise, his character sports the original Asguardian Thor-themed costume for the entire first season.  So while Wiccan should remain the main title of the article, Asguardian should be noted as a "notable alias" since it is used (and appropriately so) for the entire first season of the character's involvement.Luminum (talk) 01:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree with that. Could you reference it in the article or is it already said? Consensus here is that "Wiccan (comics)" remains as the name of the article. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Jeez just wait why dont'cha?Brian Boru is awesome (talk) 02:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. It's been decided, see this. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:09, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Section on Heritage
I added the notable events of Wiccan and Speed's search for Wanda under fictional character biography. However, as it further explains the parentage issues (what with Billy and Tommy referring to Wanda nonchalantly as their mother given Speed's previous skepticism and Billy's general understanding of it being probable, but not fact) through Master Pandemonium, I wanted to ask what others thought of its appropriate placement. Should it be under FCB or "Parentage"?Luminum (talk) 01:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Powers Section
Are "light projection" and "illusion casting" really notable aspects of his powers? I don't think he's ever projected light that wasn't just a side part of his spell-casting or lightning. I think light projection means it's a power in and of itself like Dazzler, which I don't think he's ever done. Likewise, I think all his illusions have just been, more simply, examples of spells. Everything else, the lightning, teleporting, flight, reality manipulation, etc. have been notable parts of his use in fights. I'll remove them, but if anyone feels otherwise, please explain and we can decide to add them back or not.Luminum (talk) 01:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion of edits to recent contribution
Here is a discussion of my revision to recent edits in order to provide an example of how to better handle contributions in the future. I use it as an example for newer users unfamiliar with style guides and policies, and it means nothing personal to the original contributor.

The recent edit was this:

"The Hood, having found Doctor Strange by using his powers to detect Strange's use of magic, as instructed by Dormammu, appears in a far more demonic version of himself. Strange, having met to discuss his failures and the possibilities of less honorable mystics assuming the position with Billy Kaplan of the Young Avengers, sights the Hood approaching and pleas for Wiccan to leave through the back door at once, ignoring Wiccan's panic and his offers to find aid in the Young Avengers or any others. Strange evenly tells Parker that he sought to aid him against the treacherous Dormammu, claiming the demon would betray and trick him, but the an enraged Hood engages the former Sorcerer Supreme in direct magical combat, Strange telling the New Avengers that the Hood now possessed more power than even he did. The Hood summons zombies and fires with his gun at Strange, and, despite Strange's initial belief that his remaining powers would be sufficient for defense, is almost immediately overwhelmed, despite his attempts to cast demon-banishment spells and his own protective mystical arts. Wiccan intervenes and summons forth a lightning bolt to strike at the Hood, and Strange uses this diversion to temporarily stun Parker, though he recovers at once to fire again; Strange teleports himself and Wiccan away, later reaching the New Avengers and pleading for their aid; Doctor Strange has fallen to the forces of the Dark Dimension, the eight New Avengers gather to rescue the threatened mystic, and the Hood is a probable candidate for Strange's lost role. "

The paragraph here was reduced to the following:

"Doctor Strange, the former Sorcerer Supreme and one of Marvel's premiere magic users, visits Wiccan to discuss his potential candidacy and ability to assume the position as the new Sorceror Supreme. When the Hood finds Strange and engages him in magical combat, Wiccan aids him, contrary to Strange's orders to flee. Wiccan and Strange teleport to the New Avengers seeking help.  "

The original paragraph involved significant information that was not directly related to the character, written in such a way that Doctor Strange or even the Hood became the main focus of the entry. In character pages, entries should always maintain a focus on the page character. If details are necessary to provide context for the character's involvement, try rewriting it so that it explains the events with the character's involvement as the main description.

So, since Doctor Strange is sought out by the Hood and they engage in magical combat and Wiccan eventually helps him, you can rewrite the sentence to something like, "Wiccan assists Doctor Strange when he is attacked by the Hood."

Additionally, the original paragraph contains a large amount of specific detail, that while involving the character Wiccan, are non-notable to the character's involvement in general. An exercise to help figure out what is omittable detail and what is pertinent, imagine that you had to summarize the events of the comic in two sentences if you were explaining how Wiccan was involved to someone who hadn't read the issue but may know the characters. In this case, Wiccan panicking and offering to find the Young Avengers to help isn't the most important detail in the paragraph and can therefore be cut. What's really important is that Strange sought him out to be a possible candidate for Sorcerer Supreme and that when Strange was attacked, Wiccan came to his aid. Those two aspects are reflected in the current revision.

To provide some closing context, the characters then escape via teleportation and seek aid with another team (the New Avengers). Nothing more appears to actively happen with Wiccan and the later details were concerned with Strange being "affected by the Dark Dimension" and the other Avengers gearing up to help him. These details would be cut first and foremost because they don't directly involve Wiccan, and are details that might be more appropriate on the pages for those characters (i.e. Strange and the New Avengers). Additional issues that make it unsuitable are that the statements give no context. Topics such as the Hood's real name ("Parker"), the Dark Dimension, or even Strange's reduced power, were never discussed previously and as they appeared, would be confusing, begging questions such as "What is the Dark Dimension?" "What does it mean for Wiccan if Strange is affected?" "Who is Parker?" "Why is Strange looking for a new Sorcerer Supreme candidate?" These would be cases where some of these problems are better left omitted to avoid these questions while others call for more background in the entry. In this case, issues such as Hood's name are minor details that can be avoided by just referring to him as the Hood. The same can be said of omitting the references to Strange and the Dark Dimension (since it doesn't involve Wiccan) and the other Avengers gearing up to help him (assuming that Wiccan isn't involved in the "gearing up").

However, things such as Strange's importance as a magic users when contacting Wiccan and his lack of sufficient power can be explained by stating that he has been stripped of his role as Sorcerer Supreme and are thus added to provide sufficient context to the issue.

I hope this provides some clarification of appropriate comic character biography entries and how to contribute the most crucial information while avoiding unnecessary content. Feel free to discuss this here or ask for further clarification. For questions about appropriate content in general and other guidelines when editing, feel free to ask me on my talk page.Luminum (talk) 02:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Image deletion nomination(s)
One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Files for discussion/2020 April 28. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Main Image
Can the image be updated to something that isn't a cover from a 2010 event, like please, his Phil Jimenez Pride Cover would be better Cordelia Van Allen (talk) 12:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there any reason to do that? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:03, 27 October 2023 (UTC)