Talk:Wiedergänger

I used yahoo babel fish
to translate this from German, but i could use a bit more help on this. -- Cucumberkvp (talk) 14:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Why is the article called "Weidergänger" when it clearly states different spellings in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.57.70.163 (talk) 01:25, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You know, your totally right. I'll move the page to "Wiedergänger" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 水の男の子 (talk • contribs) 17:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The section on German folk beliefs is incomplete and thus misleading. The original, pre-Christian, belief was that people who were cast out of a community (a very serious form of punishment, for it meant the outcast would die in the wilderness) would become Wiedergänger after their death and occasionally haunt the living. I'm not an expert in the field, but this is what I learned in a legal history class when I attended law school in Switzerland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.54.1.139 (talk) 22:57, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Seems to be using the term for any corporeal undead
This article seems to be using Wiedergänger for almost all corporal undead creatures that you can think of including the Revenant, Vampire. This article should specifically be about the German concept and only have information on similar beliefs in other cultures when it is relevent to the article. I think this page needs a complete re-write as well. Sigurd Dragon Slayer (talk) 23:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. &#58;bloodofox: (talk) 02:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this article should be merged with the Revenant, as it is simply the German translation of that term. If need be, a subsection "Germany" can be added to the Revenant and country-specific information can be added there. --Ciaraleone (talk) 11:54, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * First consider merging with Gjenganger which is definitely the same folklore only under a different name. Carewolf (talk) 12:34, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * When in doubt, do both. smurfix (talk) 20:08, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Categorising "undeads" in folklore is problematic at best
This, and various other articles on similar folkloristic believes in undead creatures suffers from the compulsive attempt to categorise them as distinct entities. Wiedergänger is a somewhat archaic word that made a little bit of a comeback in fantasy literature (the Wights in Game of Thrones were translated as Wiedergänger in the German version) apart from fantasy it is a somewhat fuzzy category for various kinds of undead creatures ranging from Ghosts to Revenants. You could say that it is the kind of undeads that keep a somewhat free will (although the idea of mindless undeads/zombies is pretty confined to fantasy literature and horror movies in german).

It seems that the term originally described a similar creatures like the scandinavian Draugr but then got convoluted with the catholic believes in souls and their passage. In the Rhineland region (historically very catholic) this shifted the perception of Wiedergänger to a more Ghost-like creature. The Folklore of the Rhineland knows the Aufhocker as a kind of Wiedergänger a werewolf is the same thing (in Rhineland, not in the rest of germany). Various kinds of elemental spirits and other german folkloristic creatures do the same thing. However they are rarely perceived as having returned from the grave. Nachzehrer are Wiedergänger that steal the life energy of their community by various means. They do not always leave their grave. This is quire similar to slavic folkloric creatures commonly known as Vampires. In some area of the Balkans Vampires are of demonic origin, not undead creatures.

I hope you all see that categorising these things get's quite convoluted at times. I suggest to replace all those articles by either an article of "Undeads in folklore" with a section for each region or each region as their own article "Undeads in ***** folklore". TLDR: Clear cut definitions of those undead creatures is probably something more suitable for fantasy, not for folklore. NorPhi (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi! A long time has passed since you left this comment, but I really like your idea of creating an "Undeads in folklore", as I see now there is only one page similar that could be improved: Undead. You clearly now about this topic so lmk if you would be interested on doing it ;)
 * Best ZenZeppelin (talk) 09:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Is it worth it to work on this article?
Hi!

I stumbled into this article by chance and I see that in this talk page there's a lot of proposals of merges, edits, and deletions. But it seems that nothing has been done about it...

Is it worth to improve this? Should we merge it to another page then?

Best ZenZeppelin (talk) 09:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)