Talk:Wigger/Archive 1

Euphemism??
Lester Bangs has used "white nigger" as a EUPHEMISM for "punk rocker"? A euphemism is a more polite, more positive synonym, like "restroom" for "toilet" or "pass away" for "die." "White nigger" is the opposite! -unsigned

merge with chav?
Should we merge this article with the very-similar UK slang term chav? 69.219.146.25 17:53, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think they should be merged, since the term Chav is only used in the UK (and by those outside of the UK who are familiar with British culture). The term Wigger is mostly used in North America, although it may have spread to other continents. Also, the meanings of the two terms aren't totally the same, and will probably continue to evolve along with social conditions and popular culture.Spylab 18:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab

source
Can anyone prove that Jason Williams is considered a wigger?

NY Times magazine cover story on 'wiggers'
They didn't use the term wigger, but I know the NY Times Magazine did a cover story on the trend of white youths co-opting black culture. It was written a while back, I know the cover photo was a black and white two-shot of a black kid and his white friend who was dressed in hip hop style. Could be a good source. Don't know if anyone's interested in expanding this article, but thought I'd throw that out there.

hoax?

 * Not a hoax. Egad, I think Ricki Lake would run out of topics if she wasn't allowed to have occasional "wigger" shows... Of course, our current definition is unnecessarily coy about its etymology: white + nigger = wigger. -- Someone else 05:04, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I reverted this talk page as it was way back in October 2003. Between then and now it had been a redirect to Talk:Nigger, which I do not believe is correct (it may have been at one time, if the article title was also a redirect, but it isn't now). I'd have just deleted this page, but the above comments were not merged with Talk:Nigger and so I decided to keep them for completeness. :) - furrykef (Talk at me) 16:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Some may be insulted by the term coined to describe this phenomenon in white middle class suburbia, but it is a a phenomenon nonetheless. Therefore it deserves a wiki. To deny it would be censorship, and wiki could not survive with censorship. I deleted the previous post in this spot because it did not even pertain to the discussed topic. What does latino rap have to do with a variation of a derogative term originally coined to label blacks? 05:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I said that latinos had been a part of the hip hop culture from the start, because someone deleted the part in the article that said that latinos were also a part of "street culture".I was only justifiying myself for re-posting the latino part.Guanaco152003 22:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Latinos largely have their own culture, completely seperate from the African-American dominated hiphop culture (at least in the U.S.). --TheNationalist 17:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I know, I was just trying to say latinos have a part in the hip hop culture. :-) 22:41, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Have you read the book _New York Ricans in the Hip Hop Zone_ by Raquel Z. Rivera? It came out in 2003 and talks about the impact that New York Puerto Ricans had in the development of NY hip hop since the 1970s ... Finchogrincho 22:09, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That we can point to something called "Latino Culture" doesn't demonstrate it is "completely seperate" (sic) from what is constructed as Black culture. Not only are many people both Black and latino, but the cultures have been cross-pollinating for decades (at least).  I think it's worth doing some (a lot) research before making such a monolithic (and ignorant TBPF) statement.

Neutrality?
On what basis is the neutrality of this article disputed?

joeclark 19:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I think its because of the list of celebrities at the end.


 * I'm surprised Eminem wasn't listed there, by the way. Or was he, and someone took him out?  MasterXiam 09:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * How is this neutral or objective? '"They also want to be tough, except their not, they are dumb suburban white kids who cry to their mommies."' I've got my own personal opinions on this topic but really, this should be deleted immedieatly as it clearly goes against the Wiki NPOV policy. (Not to mention the usage of "their" is incorrect, should be "they're")--Black Orpheus 04:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words...
==Criticism== "Some note that the word wigger is disproportionately often used by caucasians, and that use of the word is sometimes based in a racist belief that Afro culture is only suitable for blacks, depreciating the many cultural inventions and innovations that originated with African-American and Caribbean culture."

Can we do better? Who notes? Do they really "note" or do they "claim"? Removed for now.


 * I originally wrote that but I can't remember the source for this criticism. I agree that it's pretty POVly formulated. Help with the paragraph is appreciated, because I do think this is a valid and important criticism of the term "wigger". I'll try to think up a better way to write it, too, keep it on the talk page for a while. I'll add this to my watchlist. Would "Some believe..." be better?


 * Would you call black piano players "blites" or "oreos"?

About the fox-news-like weasel words "Some say..." -- I see this all the time on wikipedia, and I never like it when I read it, but it's hard to avoid it when I write. Any generic tips for alternatives to this phrase? Sunnan 21:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Exact attribution, as Avoid weasel terms says. Uncle G 00:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd prefer if they were called Wegroes or Wafrican Americans

Not sure if it's just a co-incidence but I came up with this word at my school in Nottingham (England) back in 1992 (refering to some white kids who thought they were black). Although it's obviously quite likely that it was also made up by other people across the globe.
 * Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. Uncle G 22:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Um, I don't think that rule means anything here — should the definition be removed because it also happened to be made up in school one day? I'm pretty sure that writer was just making a simple "Oh, interesting" observation. — Lenoxus 04:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Integration
While wiggers often fail in integrating themselves into Black communities, there are those that succeed. It may be useful to note that Wiggers often beleive they are part of the Black communty, although this is far from the case. The only successful integrations that I have been are subtle and do not involve the superficial aspects of Black culture; It is the superficial elements and credibility that Wiggers are often concerned with. 782 Naumova 11:10, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

"Wangster"
I changed part of the first paragraph to remove the flippant tone. Old copy was: " Which sound like a penis ganster. All day long." New copy reads: "Another word for this is "Wangster," apparently a combination of "white" and "gangster," but which sounds somewhat like "wanker," which literally means "one who masturbates" and generally refers to an individual lacking in social skills."

Requesting protection
May I (or another admin) semi-protect this page for a bit? It's been getting nothing but vandalism recently. --King of All the Franks 05:45, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'd personally rather give it a day or two, to see if these levels continue Robdurbar 09:40, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

This article is about the English slang term. For the Turkic people, see Uyghur.
''This article is about the English slang term. For the Turkic people, see Uyghur.''

What is the relation about Uyghur. Is it about similarity of pronunciation?--Ugur Basak 21:04, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

negative term?
Hi I'm puzzled as to if this term "wigger" is supposed to be a negative term or not. I'm curious to know if a European person (myself included) has choosen to embrace the hip-hop culture, is that person supposed to be labeled with such a term? Austrian Guy06 01:20, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it is a negative term, mostly. Simply liking or "embracing hip hop culture", doesnt really make one a wigger in my opinion. Personaly, I only use it for people who go way too far and make an ass out of themselves with it. Jack Cain 01:20, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, of course it is a pejorative term. That doesn't mean it's not the perfect word to describe white people emulating the sort of black people for whom calling each other niggaz and gangstas is part of their lifestyle. Also, I think the article should feature a pic of the Icy Hot Stuntaz, the epitome of wiggers. Kar98 04:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If you where a lot of South Pole merchandise, you are a fucking "wigger".

NPOV Dispute
Im disputing this quote and accompanying text as POV.

whereas the contemporary wigger embodies it: The wiggers are the central white culture; there is no white culture that they’re countering anymore.

I find it to be incorrect, slightly offensive and clearly POV. Jack Cain 08:17, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed about the offensiveness, but it is attributed to someone as a quote, rahter than stating it as a fact; it is shown to be someone's opinion Robdurbar 08:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The quote is out of context, and very badly so. Here is the full paragraph.

''Is there a difference between 90s wiggers and 50s white Negroes?

''I think there is. The white Negro perception was always a sort of outlaw privileged outsider-minority kind of infatuation. Part of the attraction was that it would remain counter to the white culture, counter to the economic, cultural center of the white culture–in effect it was a rejection of it. The wiggers are the central white culture; there is no white culture that they’re countering anymore. It’s not so much a rejection of something that is there as a chasing after something that isn’t there, or that they don’t have unless they chase after it. The wigger is basically a mainstream figure now in its generation. The wigger is not ostracized, unless you take skinheads, who are rampant racists of their generation."

Jack Cain 08:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * None of those are cogent NPOV objections. The same could be said of quotes by, say, Ann Coulter. Please read the NPOV article. NPOV enjoins us to represent the opinions of notable commentators on a topic fairly, without censorship, however (allegedly) inflammatory those opinions may be. Also see: Cite sources and Verifiability. If the quote is out of context, then include the full quote. chocolateboy 08:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I did, read up. Jack Cain 23:21, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Chocolateboy almost certainly meant in the article. Uncle G 00:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, well, thats agreeable. Jack Cain 03:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

State of the Image:Wigger group.jpg
From its first revision:
 * "my friends and I, yes we are "wiggers" but this is not a degrading term for we choose to embrace the hip-hop culture."

I think this picture should stand, for now, as it was uploaded by a Wikipedian who considers himself and his friends, "wiggers". I agree that this is not an ideal image to illustrate Wigger. I think that the best illustration would be an actual illustrated caricature of Wigger, since Wigger is essentially a caricature to begin with (at least in the US). Okay, discuss: -Dwiki 02:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm unusure about this one. I base my removal on an edit summary I read somewhere - possibly on chav - that stated we shouldn't use images of real people for a stereotype. On a more general point, can we include this image without the expilicit permission of every person there? How do we know that these people are acutally the user who uploaded them, and his friends? I feel extrememly uncomfortable with this image being on the page. Robdurbar 10:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Rob. It raises POV issues as it stands unless we have empirical evidence that all of the people depicted in the photographs acquiesce to the "wigger" characterization. A photograph of a fictional character like Ali G would provide a more representative and less contentious illustration of the stereotype. And, yes, a caricature like that in the "chav" article would also be nice.


 * chocolateboy 19:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * All right, if you remove the pictures again, I'll support it, although if a replacement could be found before that happens, I'd be double-plus happy as I don't think it's critical. Personally, I want to see the cover from the NY Times magazine cover story on 'wiggers'  mentioned at the top of this article if anybody has the resource to find it.   --Dwiki 21:05, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes I am with my friends in the picture you administrators are questioning. I am confused as to this article being solely for the purpose of presenting "wigger" as just a stereotype as you administrators have implied. I would like to ask what is there to be said about those who are not of African descent who associate with the hip hop culture, I apologize for it seems that it is implied only those of African descent should be associated with hip-hop culture and I apologize again for in my opinion this assumption of hip-hop only available for people of African descent is a biased and prejudiced opinion. If this is indeed the intent of article, it is presenting only one side of the story as there are perhaps millions of people who have embraced and live the hip-hop culture who are European descent. Also to note from the article "Chicago rapper Marz, who is of Croatian descent, is a self proclaimed wigger". What is to be said of those of European descent who have embrace hip-hop and no have problems labeling themselves as such. Like Marz I have no problem to such if a person was to call me a "wigger" just because I choose the hip-hop lifestyle, so be it, I am not going to change myself in order to appease another person's opinion of myself.
 * If the ownership of the pictures are in question, I can tell you administrators that I am the owner of the photographs, I am wearing the blue jersey in the photograph with my friends and the second photograph is one of myself, the photography was done in 2004. If the real issue here is cultural differences I apologize for I was unaware that in America that race and music is such an issue for I have not encountered such obstacles in expressing my love for hip-hop living here in America so far. Please respond back, cheers. Austrian Guy06 23:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm afraid that none of us discussing this are 'administrators' - just people who are concerned that Wikipedia acts properly. Unfortunately, the wikiepdia No Original Research policy covers facts/opinions that are based on real life experience (don't worry, it took me a while to get my head around this one too). Baisically, it means that we shouldnt include things in the article on the basis of 'this is how it is for me' - what we need are previously published opinions/facts.


 * If you feel that there are artists (such as Marz) or celebrities who have 'celebrated' being a wigger then add them to the page, perhaps with quotes/referenced opinons. Indeed, if we were to find enough people showing this view, it could be expanded to a new section of the article that talks about white people embracing hip-hop culture, and even the term wigger.


 * As for the picture; again, it is simply a problem of describing a stereotype with a real life photo; even if the people in it are happy to be labeled 'wiggers', its still not very appropriate. Robdurbar 23:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

--Hi euro-hop. I understand what you're saying here but you misunderstand the meaning of wigger here in the states. It actually does not refer to someone who embraces the hip-hop lifestyle. It specifically refers to people who try to be black and it is used negatively. Note that not all black people like hip-hop. There are many types of emulators who are labeled as such. Some may simply wear large sports jerseys in a style associated with black people. I'm now 22, but when I was in middle school people called a couple kids wiggers simply because they were friends with black people. So you see, this term is not a label for those who embrace the hip-hop culture. Black culture in the states and hip-hop culture are far from one in the same.68.185.171.159 12:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * What is it that you are talking about "trying to be Black"? Your skin color is something you are born with, how can you be a different skin color? Yes not all people of African ancestry like hip-hop. I know that of course. What is the arguement you are trying to make? From what you have written up, your view is extremely racist, and is that of that non African-Americans should not associate with African-Americans. You say of your experience in middle school where there was apparent racism, I do not understand why you bring this into your arguement, it makes no sense except to illustrate your point that you agreed with the racism perhaps? Austrian Guy06 21:31, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * This futher illustrates the lack of understanding here. What I'm pointing out is that in the states, this is a racist term. So to have an article explaining that it refers to someone who embraces hip-hop culture doesn't seem right to me. That is not the meaning that this term has in the country in which the term originated and has been used for decades. It is not racist to point out that it is a racist term. Nor would it be racist to point out that nigger is a racist term, which it is.
 * To further illustrate this, take a look at the first external source listed in the article: http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051127/COLUMNISTS08/511270359
 * It is about a young boy who gets called a wigger and bullied. It is not about a kid who went to school and said "hey guys, I'm a wigger." That's not how it works here.


 * You are quite amusing, now you bring up an article that is clearly that is a boy who is being bullied. Also, just now you vandalized my userpage, if you're going to leave comments then you should leave them on my discussion page, not my userpage. By the way, why are you hiding behind an IP address? If you have a Wikipedia account, then use it instead of hiding behind your IP address. Look I don't know you personally but everytime you write something you imply your hatred of "wiggers", please don't use Wikipedia as your little soapbox for your anti-wigger campaign, by all means please seek therapy. Cheers, Austrian Guy06 03:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, if we align it to 'n*****', which is much more widely used as both a racist and identifying term, that shows that its possible for the term to be both - yes it is racist, but yes some use it as an identifier. Ditto 'queer'. Robdurbar 09:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think the guy (or girl I don't know) was trying to be racist. By saying "trying to be black" he meant white people speaking in Ebonics, dressing in hip hop apparel and wearing big jewelry (not that all African Americans are like this, but most). Guanaco152003 02:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Austrian Guy, it is a widely accepted perception, in America, by whites and Blacks, that there is something called "Black Culture" that extends far beyond the 'skin color you're born with'. The boundaries between white culture, Black culture, and mainstream culture are highly disputed; that doesn't mean that these categories don't exist, if only as inter-subjective perceptions and social constructs.  Racism is part of our society, and the concept of "trying to be Black" and the term "wigger" are real phenomena, ones fraught with assumptions and expectations built into a society that demarcates race.  Encyclopedias are not dedicated to describing 'what should be' but rather 'what is'.  The discussion here is aimed at an article that accurately, fairly, and completely deals with this term and concept, with respect to race and racism.  One thing that is clear is that it is, as Rob notes, used both as a racial epithet and as a less-insulting (but perhaps no less loaded) identifier. bntrpy 21:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Eminem Lyric
Comment from anon moved from main page: ''

Thoughts? Robdurbar 08:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Irish people?
I was listening to the Elivis Costello song 'Oliver's Army' in which there's a line refering to Irish people as 'white niggers' and I came here to look it up but I got this page about 'Wiggers' could someone please create, or disambig this article so people can actually find what they are looking for? -- NatsukiGirl \talk 00:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Costello was referring to Irish in the U.K. (esp. Northern Ireland) being 2nd class-citizens and victims of discrimination. 63.152.13.173 06:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Celebrities and media characterization section
In that section, can anything related to reality television shows be permitted as I am considering printing this following section from the Big Brother (UK series 7) series as I have seen that bit.

Grace (Adams-Short) has since called her (Aisleyne Horgan-Wallace) a "ghetto hoe" and a "wigger", claiming that Aisleyne wants to be black.

Deleted lines
I deleted the following lines:

''The most logical explanation for why many affluent Caucasian-Americans attempt to imitate the image and attitude of the “Gangsta-Rapper” is simply because this is an immensely popular form of music and by imitating the lifestyle projected by these artists, “wiggers” are hoping to be seen in a similar, favorable light. However, within the social circles of today’s youth, this usually has the reverse effect.''

The phrase "the most logical explanation" in the above merely adds the pretence of authority to the author's assertion; and the assertion is not substantiated.

How can you disagree with that?

Paul Wall
He's a respected rapper and bringing up his race on the "wigger" article is sooo not appropriate. Bubba Sparxx too I guess. I can see the connection, but it does not seem very appropriate for wikipedia. It seems kind of cheeky. I'm deleting it. 70.160.101.148 04:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC) Jamil

Above post is me (forgot to sign in). JamRoc 04:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC) Jamil

Clean Up
This page was a mess. I completely deleted everything except for the factual definition of the term. The rest of the article was highly POV in that it treated what's nothing more than a slur as if it were a genuine anthropological phenomenon. I don't see a list of examples of "niggers" in pop-culture on the nigger page, why were there examples of wiggers here? Now there is a history of white Americans deriding whites who "act black" - that could be scholarly detailed in this article, but not from the POV that they deserve such derision. --128.164.229.179 20:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

and those links were nothing but ads for bad humor sites. --128.164.229.179 20:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Somebody reverted back to its jokey original status. This is an internet encyclopedia, not a humor page. There's no way that listing various white celebrities and characters and then stating that they can be best described as "wiggers" can be taken seriously. Nor can posting pictures of white kids dressed in oversized clothing. These people are not self-described "wiggers", so it's the author who is deciding that these white people are "acting black", which is definitely POV. You can note that people expect blacks and whites to act a certain type, and that breaking that type elicits ridicule and derision, but this article was written from the POV of that expectation.--128.164.229.179 13:20, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, someone's making a war out of this. For further reference to make my case, check the Uncle Tom and Oreo Cookie (slang) pages. Note that the authors never take it upon themselves to ascribe the perjorative terms to anyone.


 * I just did some more minor cleanup, fixing up formatting issues and tightening up the writing style.Spylab 17:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab

Merge request
I requested that this article be merged into list of ethnic slurs. For as long as this article has been up, it doesn't seem to have had anything encyclopedic on it besides the slur's definition. In fact, it was basically just a moderately-veiled neo-nazi soap box for ranting about "race-traitors", evidenced by the list of celebrities and fictional characters "outed" as being "wiggers". Also "wiggers" are not a subculture. The word refers to whites who are a part of a subculture that certain people believe that they shouldn't be because of their race. There's nothing to be said about "wiggers", besides providing the definition that doesn't take on the POV that whites are not supposed to act, dress, or talk a certain way.--Snackmagic 17:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * If the article is merged into a list, the article disappears, and instead we have a reference to the word as an ethnic slur. I doubt that it is exactly an ethnic slur.  I think it is better classified as  African American slang for a cultural phenomenon that deserves encyclopedic treatment.  I don't think the negative connotation really suggests that white people shouldn't be a part of black culture; the negative connotation is from the superficiality of the "wigger's" identification with it.  I don't think it is at all connected to neo-nazi culture.  But, I am not an expert. Rlitwin 17:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's certainly not African American slang. It's mostly used by non-blacks in a racist "race-traitor" sense, and is thus as much a slur as Oreo is, which is also on that list.--Snackmagic 18:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If that's the case I'm inclined to agree with you, but I wish I were more knowledgeable about it myself, and therefore I've got open ears for the moment. Rlitwin 19:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But here's a question: would you advocate the same merge for every item in the Ethnic slurs category or the Pejorative terms for people category? It seems to me there is a pretty substantial precedent for having wikipedia articles on offensive words such as this.  Maybe the right thing to do is to add content to the page about the nature of this word's use. Rlitwin 19:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, not if there's actually something NPOV to say about the slur, such as a history or controversies or significance in modern culture, or anything else encyclopedic. Nigger, Redneck, and Oreo all deserve their articles.  But for the three years this article has been up, nobody has seemed to figure out how to discuss it in an NPOV way besides just providing the definition.  For example, in the second most recent incarnation before I reduced the article, the "Interpretation of the Stereotype" starts off with: "Many whites resent the 'wiggers' for rejecting their own ethnicity’s heritage and many blacks reject their attempts to become cool by attempting to adopt theirs."  That's either original research or party line, or both.  If a white person favors hip-hop clothing and slang in lieu of, say, cargo shorts and ironic tees, he's merely choosing one transient entertainment-pop-culture subculture over another.  That's a far stretch from rejecting one's heritage.  Besides that, I wonder where the author got this information.  I personally doubt both claims.  The point seems to be only to prove that everyone can agree on hating wiggers.  The next sentence, "More often than not, 'wigger' is a word used by both blacks and whites in conversation without offense being taken on either side", I know to just be a plain lie.  The term, which is just "white nigger" shortened, is obviously offensive to blacks, if only for being derived from the most offensive, anti-black slur.  The rest of that paragraph is just an incoherent jumble irrelevant quotes and speculations; especially the Senator Byrd part about his "white nigger" comment.  His usage of "white nigger" has nothing to do with what "wigger" means.  Anyway, my point is that it doesn't seem like anyone can do anything to make this a worthwhile standalone article, so might as well just tuck the definition away on the ethnic slurs page and leave it.--Snackmagic 20:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * At this point I support the recent cleanup by 128.164.229.179. Maybe over time some very up-to-date sociologist will be able to provide enlightening additions.  The word "nigga" is now so accepted among younger African Americans that I find the notion that the term "wigger" is often if not usually inoffensive actually to be somewhat credible, but I really don't know. Rlitwin 20:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I support a clean up, but there should be some factual content beyond the definition of "white nigger", as Wikipedia function as a primer and can be used to educate people who don't have access to, knowledge of, nor understanding of hip-hop subculture. It can save some people from acting in a uncool manner, and save them from embarrassment at the very least, and could save their lives at the most (eg from gang violence). Please refrain from vandalizing the article by chopping it. 86.137.196.11 23:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If priming about the hip hop subculture is needed then that's what the hip hop article is for. There was nothing in this artice that had anything to do with saving people's lives (how ridiculous).  And cleaning up the junk isn't vandalism.  Bring on the factual content - what I cut wasn't it.--Snackmagic 02:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

This is total racism. hip-hop culture is an integral part of everyday life for lotsa young americans. It is your own POV of not liking it. This ain't no junk.--Bonafide.hustla 02:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you insane? Nothing I've said indicates that I have a problem with hip-hop culture.  This article has nothing to do with that, except that it denigrates whites who are involved in hip-hop culture.  For example Kevin Federline under the "See Also" section.  Why?  Who has decided that he's a "wigger"?--Snackmagic 10:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

It's just an example of POV pushing and people who are unaffected by hip hop culture fail to understand the meaning of the term. Wigger is not derogatory. It can be a compliment. Some rappers are self-proclaimed wiggers. Merging this article to a List of ethnic slur is very offensive to the people who use the term in good faith and distort a lot info. for people who are really wanting to know the meaning of the term. It needs to be cleanup not merge.--Bonafide.hustla 20:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't merge. It warrants its own article and besides, "wigger" is hard to be classified as an ethnic slur because it's one (or more) race(s) imitating another. Gold Stur 21:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I concur. DO NOT MERGE.--Bonafide.hustla 21:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that this article should be MERGE into list of ethnic slurs. This article doesn't seem to have had anything encyclopedic. RevolverOcelotX


 * I am really confused here. I've just checked into the backgrounds of some of the people expressing strong opinions on this article, and I am only more confused.  I am interested in hearing more from Bonafide.hustla about how this word is used.  Is it in fact used in the Hip Hop community non-disparagingly or is Snackmagic correct that it is mainly used by whites in a racist way (pejorative meaning "race traitor")?  This is a definite and important disagreement as to the facts.  Because there is a disagreement about the facts I think we are in need of some references.  Bonafide.hustla says the article needs to be cleaned up.  I think that if he is arguing in good faith, and I have no reason to assume that he is not, the he deserves the chance to attempt a cleanup of the article so that it meets encyclopedic standards.  Snackmagic asserts that this word is used in a certain way.  If his assertion is correct (and if it is the whole story) then I sympathize with his desire to merge the article.  However, if the word is used by the hip hop community in a non-derogatory way - and especially if it is also used insultingly by racist whites - then we have a case of something that there is a real need for a good wikipedia article about.  I am sorry to keep switching sides on this debate but I am really confused, and I think the discussion should be better and more complete before we do the merge.  Snackmagic seems to think that there is a kind of racist malice behind the articles that is motivating those who want to keep it.  While this is a possibility I prefer to take Bonafide.hustla and others in good faith, at least until a full and reasonable discussion reveals otherwise.  I don't think we have had a full and reasonable discussion where each side's reasons are fully explored.  I think one thing that would be helpful would be written evidence that the word is used in one way or another.  Articles about the word wigger may not exist yet to use as references; however, if the word is used non-disparagingly in hip hop magazines for example, it would be very helpful to cite those.  Likewise if Snackmagic is right then the word probably appears somewhere in writing used in a way that supports your argument.  I need more information.  I am really in the dark.  I have never heard of this word anywhere but here.  I don't think we have reached a concensus as to merge and I think there's no reason to think, at least as far as I can tell, that anyone is arguing in anything but good faith. And.... if we don't get a good discussion in place of an edit war, I think i am going to request comment. Rlitwin 22:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Wigger is very common in the hip-hop community and in no way racism. Some caucasian rappers, most notably Marz, has explicitly their status as wiggas, the merge delete a lot of info. about this popular slang term.--Bonafide.hustla 06:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * At this point I think you need a source for that. There is a disagreement here about what you are stating as a fact, and you have not provided a source. A source for that information is going to be crucial if you want the article to survive as you like it.  Give us a source to show that wigger is a common term within the hiphop community.  Others say it is not. Rlitwin 12:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The move was racism and POV. I want to counter you to give us a source that SHOWS wigger is an racist slur. It's not. [] shows its a universl slang term common in the North American society especially among young people. Even if it's an ethnic slur, you shouldn't delete the main article even just because you don't like it. (nigga is an racial slur, it got it's main article though). A lot of useful info. that people can refer to are deleted.--Bonafide.hustla 01:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * BTW, the Hip Hoptionary, a dictionary of hip hop slang, defines "wigger" simply as a "white nigger." I reinstated the short version of the article, without all the offensive-jokey fun at the expense of "wiggers." Rlitwin 02:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Snackmagic's blanking edits
The version Snackmagic contests appears to have relevant reliable resources that document the cultural usages and journalistic obersvations. Why is it so objectionable? Snackmagic really needs to document his concerns clearly and concisely on the talk page. If he fails to make his objections clear, we will need to initiate mediation. The purpose of Wikipedia is to document facts already present, and the information that had been provided appeared to do just that. Snackmagic has deleted apparently appropriate references. - CobaltBlueTony 14:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

From User:Snackmagic's contributions, his edits seem to be nothing but POV pushing and racism.--Bonafide.hustla 01:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have not noticed any point-of-view pushing or racism from User:Snackmagic, but I have seen you repeatedly revert this article to an inferior version, without even the slightest attempt at explaining why you've done so. This is considered vandalism, and must stop.Spylab 15:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab

Technically correct terms for racial groups
Caucasian is not an accurate term to describe all White people. If you click on the Caucasian link, you will see various definitions with precise meanings. Also, the term African American should not be used to describe all Black people, since they don't all live in the USA.Spylab 13:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab
 * Just want to say great clean-up. The article finally looks like it belongs in an encyclopedia.Snackmagic 16:55, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Dubious alternatives
The alternative terms such as "Wafrican-american" and "Wegro" are obviously cheeky neologisms. That someone thought it was worth a chuckle to extend the idea and etymology behind "wigger" and come up with those doesn't really need to be documented in this article. Those aren't genuine alternatives - they're exculsively employed with ironic intent. Unless someone has a cite proving otherwise, I'm getting rid of them.

"People that have been labelled as wiggers" section
If you want to list people as "wiggers", you need to find someone who says so, even if seems obvious. Read WP:V and WP:RS for details. I've removed unsourced "wiggers". Grace Note 00:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm the one who started that section, mainly because there were too many links to people in the "see also" section so I had them separated to make it look a little more organized.. I've wrote "labelled" implying that though they may not conisder themselves to be wiggers, society and the media labelled them as such based on their dress styles and mannerisms. Anonymous

Entries in this section should be deleted unless each can be reasonably sourced (i.e., someone self-identifies, or is labeled as such by a writer or commentator). It's almost akin to adding "People who have been labeled as idiots" to the Idiot article (though I concede that not everyone thinks that Wigger is a pejorative term). OhNo itsJamie Talk 03:23, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've deleted most of the entries as unsourced, with the exception of Westwood (citing the Guardian source) and Marz (I'm trusting that he is indeed a self-proclaimed Wigger). Regarding the other entries, this sort of thing should be sourced; the slippery slope toward arbitrary POV assignment is too easy. OhNo itsJamie Talk 05:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Eminem claimed he is labelled as a wigga in his song "The Way I Am", so he should not be deleted.--Bonafide.hustla 05:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Now the only people on the list are there because they have been documented as being labelled wiggers in the References in popular culture section.Spylab 16:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab

Travis Barker a Wigger?
Should Travis Barker be considered a "wigger", since many fans have accused him for trying to have a black rapper's image and by occasionally playing hip-hop music. What do you think?--Cory pratt 22:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Problems with old version of intro
There were several problems with the old version of the intro, so I fixed them. Those problems should not be reverted, because that leads to a substandard article. First of all, the old version was USA-centric, even though the term has been used in countries other than the United States. Therefore, I changed the USA-centric content, such as the term African American, because black people in other countries are not African Americans. I deleted the bolded section in the following sentence, because it is grammatically incorrect and does not make any sense in the English language: "The word is considered offensive by some because of its similarity to nigger, it may also offend the person's social background and personal history (as it is believed that many "wiggers" grew up in a black environment), and because it reflects stereotypical notions about Urban Black Americans." There were also other problems with grammar and wording that I corrected.Spylab 10:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Wigger is a US-Centric term, and while wigger can be defined as white nigga or wannabe nigga, these people's role models obviously isn't black people in Africa or Europe, they are, in fact, aspiring "African American" who follows hip-hop culture. Hip-hop culture is obviously originated from the African American community.--Certified.Gangsta 10:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The term wigger is used in countries other than the United States, and not every black person associated with hip hop around the world is a carbon copy of American blacks. And even if I was wrong about that (which I'm not), you should only edit the part that you can prove is wrong; not revert everything. The version I replaced does not meet Wikipedia standards for grammar and language.Spylab 10:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Regardless of where it's used today, it originates from the United States and its real definition is copying a stereotypical urban African American. It would NOT apply to a white person born in jamaica who talks like a Jamaican for example, so no it does not relate to all black people. Bélancourt

Book is a possible candidate for an article

 * Wigger (1995) ISBN 1-55152-020-6 is a novel by Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite set in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. It explores the class struggle, poverty, prostitution, exploitation of youth, desolation and absence of solidarity in a period of new negrophilia.

—Centrx→talk &bull; 22:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Defamatory? Wrong word - fix plz
from the main text: "The term most likely stems from a portmanteau of the word white and the defamatory term nigger." defamatory? mmm.. not exactly the best word.. kinda offensive.. try "derogatory".. I think it's the one you're after.. Can someone change this? I'm sure most will agree that derogatory identifies the word better than defamatory. BTW., looked up this term after Chris Rock in Everybody Hates Chris calls his shrimpy lil' friend "my wigga!", Season 3, Episode 12

"pejorative" would be a better word here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.213.86.172 (talk) 03:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Network Mixups
Changed 'Kazza' to 'Kazaa', and 'Limewire' to 'Gnutella', seeing as Gnutella is the actual network, and limewire is just a client. --Smackdat 21:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Blackface Minstrelsy
I would question the inclusion of blackface minstrelsy as a forerunner of wiggerism. The impulses behind minstrelsy are different from those of wiggers. In particular blackface was not affectionate towards blacks and black culture in the same way that wiggers are. It was also a performance style rather than a lifestyle choice.

I think I need to disagree. I'm not an expert, but I think I know enough to note that blackface can be (and continues to be!) a complex practice that, at one pole, includes affectionate portrayals (however misconstrued) of perceived "Blackness". See the entry for it, which goes into this. bntrpy 20:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with the first comment. I see no lineage that links blackface to wiggerism. First as was noted it wasn't a lifestyle. People didn't go around all the time dressed in blackface. Also, blackface was done as a comedy, just like you would sometimes see performers dress up as women in dresses (without a sexual connotation). The men who dressed in blackface were meant to look funny, whereas the the wiggers while they do look funny, that isn't their intent. Blackface was meant to be kind of demeaning to blacks, whereas for the wiggers they think they they are being respectful of the black culture when in reality they are being offensive. But more importantly to be a forerunner of something you are saying this led to that. You are saying this morphed into that. While one can find similarities between Blackface minstrelsy and wiggerism (I would indeed say the differences outweigh the similarities though) they both had different origins.

Economic Class of the Wigger
While I agree that most often you find wiggers in the Middle and Upper Classes, couldn't you also find some wiggers in the lower class as well? Of course upper and middle class wiggers are the most offensive wiggers because they don't have the urban poor experience but shouldn't the sentence "the term wigger is generally used to describe a young, middle or upper-class mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop culture" be changed to "the term wigger is generally used to describe a young, most often middle or upper-class mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop culture" to imply that there could be white poor wiggers as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.40.61.100 (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Remove the Niggers
You could do like what the Jews do with God. They write it Dg because they don't believe that the name of God should be Written. So you could write the Niggers as either niggers or Nigger.

So like in this sentence:

The term is a portmanteau combining the words white and nigger, and it has been used in a derogatory manner. The term wigger is generally used to describe a young, white mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop and thug culture. The word is considered offensive by some because of its similarity to nigger, and because it reflects stereotypical notions about urban blacks.

Or

The term is a portmanteau combining the words white and n_gger, and it has been used in a derogatory manner. The term wigger is generally used to describe a young, white mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop and thug culture. The word is considered offensive by some because of its similarity to n_gger, and because it reflects stereotypical notions about urban blacks.-unsigned


 * That should not be done, because it would be confusing and unencyclopedic. It would also be pointless because everyone would still know what word you mean, just as if you were to write "f_ck" instead of fuck. The word nigger exists, has its own Wikipedia article, and should be spelled properly. Spylab 17:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not censored. --Hojimachongtalk con 06:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't empower the word by making it "special". Shinji nishizono 00:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And Wikipedia is also not Bowdlerized. --Hojimachongtalk 02:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

this is stupid.
Wigger isnt a racist term, because a wigger isnt a race.


 * Nigger isnt a racist term, because nigger isnt a raceEAB 08:59, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually "nigger" is a racist term, simply because it has a negative connotation and is being used as a synonym for an entire ethnicity. "Wigger" on the other hand is a social/cultural identity. Thedeparted123 01:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

DO NOT MERGE
SOMEONE IS STUPID ENOUGH TO SUGGEST MERGING THIS ARTICLE WITH WHITE NIGGER. WIGGER IS A VERY COMMON TERM, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A SO-CALLED WHITE NIGGER. WIGGAS CAN APPLY TO ANY ETHNIC GROUPS BECAUSE IT SOMETIMES STAND FOR WANNABE-NIGGERS, WHITE NIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS THE RIGHT TRANSLATION.--Certified.Gangsta 22:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Caps lock. Turn it off. Seriously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.33.59.183 (talk) 16:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

You guys are way too politically correct to be dictating what is put on this site
Like it or not a lot of people resent wagers because they are trying to become a part of a predominately black subculture. And this is not just from working-class rural rednecks either, it comes from a lot of black kids as well. Black kids that don’t think he grew up around hip-hop culture, and he just adopted it. I guess you guys just can’t relies that stereotypical white people and stereotypical black people can hate another ideology together.

And to the person who said it was an outright lie that a lot of blacks don’t take offense to the term. Have you ever met a black person. They sure as hell aren’t as sensitive as you yuppies are. There have been instances in class where a black kid thinks I said the “n-word” but doesn’t get mad after realizing I just said “wigger.” Yes, I know it’s hard to believe but in many social circles, racial boundries still exist. And those that cross them are often mocked by all sides.

And please no-one call me a racist. I’m not saying one race is better than another, I’m just reporting facts about how this term is perceived. And ultimately, in most cases, the only people who are supposed to be offended by it are “wiggers”.


 * Question! Who do you mean by "you guys"? There's at least 50 different users (I believe that it's way more) who wrote this article... If you think it's to political correct you can simply change this and see how the rest of the community reacts. / 81.226.131.216 (talk) 22:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

"Wigger" and "white nigger" are not the same term
-Wigger is meant to be an insulting term (against wiggers) used to describe a white person who attempts to develop an identity associated with Hip-Hop culture.

-A “white nigger” is someone who is white but lives a poor, ignorant, violent life. A stereotypical nigger life. Irish immigrants were called white niggers, I doubt that is because they wanted to be a gangster-rappers. For instance, you could call people in a trailer park with a confederate flag and a Get R’ Done shirt on a white nigger. Yet they probably wouldn’t be a wigger.

And to answer the guy’s question about if he is a wigger because he dresses ghetto fabulous. Well, if you have ever worn South Pole merchandise when you didn’t have to than by average middle-class, 2/3 white, 1/3 black, college town-public high school standards, yes you are a wigger. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.29.65.159 (talk) 07:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

How does your definition of "white nigger" differ from "white trash"? Aliza250 (talk) 00:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

This version is horrible.
Reading this page for ages, this is one of the worst versions ever. The definition that starts the page should be attributed to advertising/marketing person Marian Salzman, who put the term out with that definition in relation to black hip hop culture. The first line of the third paragraph has no source at all. And the idea that whites imitated blacks AFTER the abolition of slavery is faulty. The book Love and Theft shows that the cultural appropriations started before the end of slavery. The references in popular culture part is okay, but needs tons of citation in the sources. The actual artist of Weird Al's "I'm a Wigga" has his own myspace page, and can be listed. The Lady Sovereign track has NOTHING to do with the topic, and is more of a freestyle. Lester Bang's wasn't close to talking about wiggers in his "white nigger" essay. If that were the case why isn't John Lennon's "Woman is the Nigger of the World" listed. Or the book "How the Irish Became White?" And the book Wigger that is listed isn't even about the topic and isn't a reference in the popular culture. This page should be about listing theories, instances, and documentation of Caucasians who are accused of emulating or appropriating black mannerisms seen in American hip hop culture.

WHY was the website Wigger Lover located at http://wiggerlover.blogs.com/ removed? The talk back says it was because it caused the internet program to crashed, but it doesn't happen when I visit the site on my own. The site actually was somewhat of a wiki. It may label itself as a blog, but it's more of accurate than this page at times. It includes links to several definitions, from scholars and artists. It has tons of outside references and research. And it appears neutral in listing the documentation in the media and academia on the page... This page is a mess and should be opened up so some major revisions can be made. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JamOnWiki (talk • contribs) 05:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Zoot Suiters weren't white
In the list, toward the beginning, of white people taking on percieved black traits, Zoot Suiters were included. I think there may have been some white Zoot Suiters, but weren't most of them Hispanic, specifically Mexican? The "Zoot Suit Riots," for example, involved Mexican-Americans.Nagakura shin8 20:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Many were also Italian. Though Italians weren't considerd "white" at the time, they are now.--68.192.176.218 (talk) 23:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Ali G
He may not be the best example- maybe Jamie Kennedy or someone like that. I understand the choice, but a wigger is more of an American character; the British have a similar character in chav; which incorporates unique aspects of the British lower classes into the picture- this may be a better depiction for Ali G.

Ali G as an example is not appropriate at all. Ali G's character does not make fun of whites who try to act like black people. If this were the case, he would have the character be overreaching, whiny and insecure. Instead, the Ali G character is patently uneducated, unintelligent, cocksure, and boorish. These are commonly held stereotypes of young, urban, African American males, not white kids trying to act black. I understand that SBC has CLAIMED that it's a parody of whites who act black, but we should not be so naive. He's parodying people of African descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.86.16 (talk) 20:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Gangsta
I don't think the creation of the gangsta icon can accurately be attributed to blacks- and thus its not really accurate to attribute whites in this capacity as "copying blacks". The original gangsters were Italians in the 20s-60s. This is the category that blacks blatantly copied much of their culture from- everything from trying to look tough, to ideals of dress styles, necklaces, mannerisms, organized gangs, etc- this is the basis for the black gangsta culture. Granted, they took it and added a little to it, such as rap, and some current whites emulate it, but its more complex than to simply claim that whites are emulating blacks, as those blacks emulated other whites....

I read this article and I don't recall it mentioning the word gangsta once. It talks about stereotypes of African American culture. Regardless, mafia and black culture have very little in common. Have you EVER seen any rappers dressing like Italian gangers? Thought so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.7.183 (talk) 03:09, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Weegro/Wafrican-American
I have heard these terms used to describe white youth who emulate the middle-class black lifestyle. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.27.203.131 (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Edit warring about Category:African-American topics
User:Wassermann and User:Spylab are edit warring about the inclusion of Category:African-American topics, with no input whatever on the talkpage. This is bad practice, see Edit warring. Edit summaries are not a discussion forum. Please take the disagreement to this talkpage so other people can join in and there's a chance for consensus. And don't revert each other any more until editors of the page have come to some agreement. I'd rather not adminprotect the page, which would stop all editing, or block the editors involved, but I will if I have to. Please be aware of the WP:3RR rule, and note especially that the rule ''does not convey an entitlement to revert three times each day, nor does it endorse reverting as an editing technique; rather, the rule is an "electric fence". Editors may still be blocked even if they have not made more than three edits in any given 24 hour period, if their behavior is clearly disruptive... The bottom line: use common sense, and do not participate in edit wars. Rather than reverting multiple times, discuss the matter with other editors. If an action really needs reverting that much, somebody else will probably do it.'' Bishonen | talk 10:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Reverting twice and moving on to other things is not an edit war. I haven't even touched this article since a bit after 5pm on May 6. If you're going to write paragraphs raising the threat of protecting an article or blocking editors every time someone reverts an article twice on Wikipedia, you are going to be extremely busy. Spylab 11:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, no problem here w/ Spylab -- I just didn't understand his/her reversions, since "Wigger" is a topic that has something to do with African-Americans (albeit indirectly), and thus I sought to explain why I thought the category was valid in the edit summaries. I'm trying to group as many disparate topics dealing with African-Americans that aren't already categorized as such under this broad and miscellaneous 'topics' category. No big deal...go ahead and take "Wigger" out if you think that it doesn't fit (even though it does, of course). --Wassermann 20:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Lester Bangs reference should be removed
He describes himself and other punk rockers as “white niggers,” not wiggers. The terms have different connotations. “Wiggers” are white people who emulate aspects of hip hop culture, while being a “white nigger” only constitutes violence, ignorance, poverty and irresponsibility. And while some punk rockers are labeled “white niggers” within this context, very few of them are emulating hip hop culture. Therefore, they are not wiggers. Thedeparted123 01:21, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree. While I'm not sure if the Lester Bangs ref belongs or not, I don't believe "violence, ignorance, poverty and irresponsibility" was what Bangs was denoting by his use of the term "white nigger". Rather, it was a description of someone outside the mainstream of status quo "white" society.  The entry for him has a note about this, under "Legacy", correctly linking it to Norman Mailer's essay The White Negro: Superficial Reflections on the Hipster.  Obviously, the many connotations of the word "nigger", and of slang in general, are bound up with the problem of defining the word "wigger" and its status (insulting? satirical? a statement of a sort of fact?) bntrpy 20:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Early use in a Science Fiction story
I came to this page hoping to find a citation for a long-ago science fiction story about an alternate universe where blacks were the dominant class and whites were the persecuted slaves. In that story whites were called "whiggers", I guess just to make the analogy more obvious.

Unfortunately, I don't have more data than that.

Aliza250 (talk) 00:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Ali G picture
Sasha Baron Cohen is Jewish, so it's debatable whether he should be considered white or of European descent as described in the article.--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 22:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

agree with the "wigger" does not equal "white nigger" terminology historically enough for this encyclopedia entry
I agree "wigger" as a modern term for 'white nigger' (white who adopts urban black cultural style/speech etc) and the historic use of the term "white nigger" are different. "White nigger" are used in the "Irish are not white" ideas of certain times in the past among English and anglo-saxon types. "Italians" have also been called "white niggers", it is related to the term any white who is dark eyed & or haired or complexion is "black" (just not black skinned) this is continued in certain terms like Swedish "Swartskalle" (black headed) or the English term wog. 67.5.160.29 (talk) 09:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

It was this use, I believe, that Elvis Costello referenced in "Oliver's Army," in that the military forces were drawn in large part from populations seen as disposable. It seems like a conflation of two entirely different concepts, one, "Wigger," an attempt at a humorous tag for whites emmulating black culture, or really hip-hop culture specifically. For instance, no one would call a white blues or jazz enthusiast a Wigger, no matter how enthusiastic he was. The second, "White Nigger," seems to disparage an economic or ethnic group of European ancestry as being no better than poor blacks, and I would argue that the phrase is inherently racist. 25 August 2009

"Oliver's Army" in fact is a reference to Oliver Cromwell and the British "New Model Army" that invaded Ireland during the English Civil War and that was involved in widespread massacres of Irish prisoners of war and civilians. Costello's point being that anti-Irish racism on the part of Britain and its army is not just a relic of the distant past, but alive and well among the British soldiers in the north of Ireland to the present day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.148.72.197 (talk) 04:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Added "Pejorative" to opening sentence
I added the word "pejorative" so as to make the opening sentence now read, "... is a pejorative slang term...". Regardless of how common the word "wigger" (or any of its corruptions) is thrown around in certain circles, I don't think anyone can adequately argue that the term is in good nature and socially acceptable, bereft of any derogatory insinuation. BostonFenian (talk) 19:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Eminem is a wigger
anyone agree with me? he said it in The Way I Am.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.103.180 (talk) 12:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

variations
I think a section should be created to address the 'wannabe-nigger' definition and to add 'chigger' (chinese/asian-nigger)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chigger

99.226.76.35 (talk) 18:00, 19 January 2009 (UTC)Anon

Isn't the terms honky and cracker racist?
I've noticed that everyone seems to ignore minority racism. We have Black Pride Month, Hispanic Pride Month, but if we had White Pride Month it wouldn't be allowed because it's considered racist. I've also noticed that minority racist terms towards whites aren't semi-protected articles on Wikipedia. Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.239.87 (talk) 20:48, 15 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Certainly in the US where this phenomenon is apparent, white people are the majority, so your statement is essentially nonsense.Gymnophoria (talk) 00:27, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm an idiot who likes to answer 9 months old comments made by IPs so i can wikiaccumulate wikiedits.190.51.146.197 (talk) 15:36, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Isn't the term wigger racist?
1. It's basically saying the N-Word, even if you're not saying the N-Word you're still saying that this white person is a black N-Word.

2. It suggest that all black people are N-Words and they are all gangsta which is obviously not true.

3. Kind of like what I said for #2, I'd like to state that it's implying that "hip-off" is only for N-Word(s), which isn't true. I guess African American invented it but that's no reason other cultures can't take part in it or that black people who like it are N-Word(s)

4. Post Deleted for Racial stereotyping

Deleted for Racial Stereotyping

Deleted for being a fag

But your opinion is irrelevant. 24.144.14.84 (talk) 02:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

cultural reference "Bucket of Blood" movie
Roger Corman's 1959 film "Bucket of Blood" has two beatnik characters referring to the protagonist of the film, Walter, as a "Wigger."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bucket_of_Blood

please include since editing for thsi article is closed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.253.128.7 (talk) 20:49, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Elvis Costello - Oliver's Army
I believe the term "White Nigger" is used by Costello in this song as a reference to Catholic Irish. Guv2006 (talk) 11:56, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from Omowale1, 11 April 2010
"In his 2010, debut feature film, "Wigger", writer/director Dr. Omowale Akintunde, noted academician and Black Studies scholar, explores the "wigger phenomenon. The film chronicles the life of a young, White, lower class, aspiring R&B singer named Brandon (portrayed by newcomer, David Oakes). The film examines his efforts to transcend poverty, an overtly racist father, and his "whiteness" in an attempt to become an R&B superstar who is accepted as authentic in urban black America. Brandon has an African American best friend, Antoine (portrayed by Eric B Harvey). Antoine acts as Brandon's agent. They are determined that the two of them can overcome their dismal North Omaha, Nebraska existences and fulfill their dreams of being successful as a performer/agent team in the recording industry. Despite the admonitions of his mother (portrayed by veteran actress, Anna Maria Horsford) that he is wasting his business administration degree by selling Brandon's cd's on the corner, Antoine is persistent in his quest to catapult he and Brandon into a world of wealth and fame. A chance meeting with a record agent (portrayed by Emmy-nominated star, Meshach Taylor) provides the opportunity of a lifetime. However, opportunities come with a price. This film dramatically examines race, class, gender, White privilege, and institutionalized racism against the backdrop of an explosive r&b and hip-hop soundtrack. Sarah Dash of the legendary R&B group, Labelle, is also a featured guest performer in the film. Unlike previous film treatments such as "Malibu's Most Wanted" which were comedic in tone, "Wigger" is a serious examination of urbanity, "whiteness", and what it means to be outside the dominant epistemological norms in modern American society.

References: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1625886/ http://www.omaha.com/article/20090725/NEWS01/707259918 http://www.nyfa.com/film-school-blog/film-school-graduate-omowale-akintunde-feature-film-wigger-exposes-serious-race-problem/ www.unomaha.edu/blst www.wiggerthefilm.com Omowale1 (talk) 07:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: I uncommented the request. Avic enna sis @ 07:39, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The above request would knock the balance of the article, giving undue weight to this specific film. We do not appear to have an article on the film at present; if it is notable, then an article could be created about it, and that would be the appropriate place for such detail. Note, however, it would need to be neutral - and a serious examination of urbanity etc. are not neutral in tone. If a mention is to be added to this article, it would need to be shorter and more factual.  Chzz  ►  13:22, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Um, Zoot suits were Chicano/Latino/Hispanic not African American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.207.247.50 (talk) 04:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes
This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Pending changes/Queue  are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Pending changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 00:38, 17 June 2010 (UTC).

Some of us prefer wigga
"The term is a portmanteau of either wannabe or white and nigger." Or, alternately, white nigga. It's all good. But annoying.GXIndiana (talk) 01:24, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Hate to break it to you buddy but wigger is and always will be a term white, black, and every other race of people use to describe wannabe ghetto suburbanites. If you take offense to the word then you probably are one. 24rhhtr7 (talk) 23:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion
I've proposed this article for deletion since it appears to be a wp:coatrack for the pejorative term "white nigger". It also appears to be wp:synthesis since there is no clear connection in the references between the term "wigger" (person who emulates an African American's style and culture) and the term "white nigger" (group of white people who are marginalized within their own culture, such as Irish Catholics). These problems have persisted since the article was last proposed for deletion in 2010. The topic of this article has come to prominence with the recent notoriety of Rachel Dolezal. It's important, therefore, to remove the article promptly unless these serious concerns are addressed.--Nowa (talk) 13:46, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * No strong feelings either way. I do, however, believe the slang meets WP:NOTABILITY just fine, but it might be hard finding good sources to improve the article. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 15:34, 30 June 2015 (UTC)