Talk:Wii/Archive 18

Proper grammar ("Wii" vs. "The Wii"?)
I know I'm not supposed to bring this up, but the fact is, in normal conversation, no one uses "Wii" as a proper noun. It just doesn't parse. I know Nintendo wants everyone to do it that way, but I think that in a case where common usage conflicts with Nintendo's style guide, to cater to Nintendo's desired usage violates NPOV. MrVoluntarist 13:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with MrVoluntarist. The opening sentence of this article should be "The Wii is..." not "Wii is..." You don't see "PlayStation 3 is..." you see "The PlayStation 3 is..." --Tristam 16:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * To that point, I distincly recall that Reggie fellow (CEO of Nintendo of America) using "the Wii" to refer to the console in the latest press conferences and interviews. I can pull up specific examples if need be, but the "drop the the" thing seems to be limited to some silly campaign around E3 when the name was revealed. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 17:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * All excellent points. I am going to add the preceding "the" article in the introduction. We should be following proper grammar, not PR campaigns. EDIT: Perhaps I won't after reading the commented out warning in the code. Why are we modifying grammar because Nintendo says so? Sorry guys, it really isn't up to them if "the" precedes Wii. I have no problem with their quirky campaign; I'll be buying a Wii myself on launch date. Can we exercise some greater professionalism here? --Tristam 18:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Nintendo's preferred style does not obligate us to use it, anymore than a company can dictate the pronoun you use to refer to the system. I'd like to hear some more comments from people who support following Nintendo's style. (And, like Tristam, I'm planning to get a Wii, don't accuse me of anti-Nintendo bias.) MrVoluntarist 18:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with MrVoluntarist too. It's common for console names to become not quite genericized, but diluted to the point where they are used as common nouns rather than proper trademark names.  I remember mentioning this during the The debate, provoking someone else to suddenly go and remove all the "The"s from just about every videogame console article on here (followed almost as promptly by several reverts).  --Stratadrake 15:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Wii is a proper noun, but that does not mean it is exempt from proper grammar. Preceding articles such as "the" and "a" should be added, because grammar conforms to commonly accepted standards in the English language, not to Nintendo's PR campaign. As I state below, I am buying a Wii at launch. Can we exercise professionalism rather than fanboyism? --Tristam 03:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Proper grammar takes precedence over a company's PR efforts.  I plan on purchasing a Wii and at least attempting to continue using proper grammar.Kedlav 11:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting way to move this argument under that banner (which I edited). What makes you think that a proper noun can't be preceded by an article? Is the Panama Canal no longer a proper noun? --Tristam 00:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Good grief. I was lazy, and didn't care enough to phrase and word things properly. The heading was just to separate your comments from the discussion about the "criticisms" section, because they're not related. Look, from what I can see with a quick look at the recent discussion, noone's disputing your proposed changes. Just go ahead and make the changes once the article is unprotected. You certainly had the opportunity the other times you commented on the issue. There isn't much point in voicing the same complaint over and over again when there isn't any active opposition. Heck, it's minor enough. If you can't wait for the protection to be lifted, you can detail the specific changes you want right here, then can flag your suggestion with an editprotected template. Dancter 04:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I jumped like that (by the way, the "you" didn't refer to you specifically; I didn't even look at who moved the text anyways). Actually, I think an edit war would inevitably follow my proposed changes. No one has disputed my claims because, quite frankly, they're grammatically correct. There are only sly, roundabout comments that "Well, NINTENDO confirmed that it's not the Wii, so..." Which, of course, completely ignores the issue at hand, because the point is that Nintendo doesn't decide grammatical rules. The other problem I have with carrying out my changes is the all-caps notice plastered at the top of the page: "DISCUSSIONS IN THE DISCUSSION SECTION HAVE DECIDED TO NAME THE CONSOLE "Wii", NOT "The Wii". PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE IT TO "The Wii"." So far, the only people that have responded have given support for changing to a grammatically correct style. If I don't see any legitimate opposition within the next few days, then I will take your suggestion and implement the changes. --Tristam 15:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it would make more sense to replace "the Wii" with "the Wii console" or "the console". "Wii" itself doesn't have to be used as often in an article specifically documenting it. Just64helpin 20:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with mentioning "the Wii," but you are right in that substituting the phrase with "the console" will add flavor and reduce redundancy. --Tristam 22:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just throwing in my two cents. Nintendo is acting as if "Wii" is a human beings name, meaning "this is like your little brother!" Thusly, "Wii" would work in that sense. "Wii goes to school." "I play with Wii at home." However, this is all a PR stunt. I think this can of worms needs to be reopened. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 08:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Since it looks like there's a consensus among pretty much everyone that's posting on the talk page that we're going to use articles when we refer to "the Wii," does anyone intend to update the article for consistency in this respect? There are still several instances, especially in the latter half, where articles are dropped and "Wii" is named as if it were a person. If no one else wants to do it, I will. (Also, in case anyone cares, the missing article makes perfect sense in Japanese. Nintendo's Japanese marketing department must have more clout than the American one.) BIEB!! 00:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I initially refrained: after a consensus began to form, the page was again given full protection. I urge you to follow through with the editing, but be sure to bring your bazooka. --Tristam 09:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

"Wee" (as in urine) reference

 * Thats not Funny do Not Speak like that (I love entei 21:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC))


 * ? The Wikipedia is not censored. Sorry. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 21:33, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a difference between censoring the article and not filling it with stupid crap.--Agent Aquamarine 22:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Agent Auqamarine What are you Saying? (I love entei 23:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC))


 * I've presumed that I love entei was responding directly to this FAQ question, not the the nuts who keep perpetuating it. Of course, I can't really tell. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I was speaking to Consumed Crustacean, who I thought meant that he should be allowed to talk about the fact that is sounds like "Wee" because Wikipedia isn't censored. Obviously, this wasn't the case, although I'm still not entirely sure what he meant.--Agent Aquamarine 23:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure either. I assumed that the user took offence at the FAQ question itself. After some communication, I think that's sort of the case. This has all been very confusing :P -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 23:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Better rephrase it, then. The survey consensus (from archive #14) was about mentioning the "Wee" reference in the article and not just in general. --Stratadrake 00:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Is this _really_ needed in this article? C'mon! This is an online Encyclopedia! Rubbicub 23:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no denying that the name is controversial, and many, many, many people commented on it's alternate meanings. WP is about the truth, not being politically correct and censored. Scepia 03:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "Wii" has no other meaning. I believe "sound alike" is what you were looking for. 03:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

A Sound Alike word does not need to be mentioned. This article is about the "Wii" not "Wee" or urine. Rubbicub 04:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You are totally ignoring the point. The fact, the truth that was posted in thousands of blogs, many respectable website (AKA IGN, GameSpot, etc.) is that it sounds like wee. Denying this fact is not going to get us to a encyclopedia that reports all the facts. Denying this will lead us to be biased because some people feel like their "too mature" to talk about urine on Wikipedia. You can call it silly or pointless to connect it with urine, but that fact is not going away. Scepia 08:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you obsessed with Urine? 05:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Look, I do not see your problem. Urine has nothing to do with the Nintendo Wii video game console. It belongs in it's own article. It has it's own article. And just because IGN said: "Wii sounds like Wee, The pet name for urine" It doesn't mean that it belongs in this article. Rubbicub 05:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Learn how to spell its, retards. -lysdexia 19:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Learn how to post on Wikipedia without making personal insults. In all seriousness though, this has been discussed to exhaustion a while ago. It was tricky just for me to be able to include a section saying there was criticism about the name. --Twile 20:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Phonetic similarities
Please link the phonetic similarities from the article:
 * or even made fun of the name for its phonetic similarities to words in English and French.

Please replace this with the following:
 * or even made fun of the name for its phonetic similarities to words in English (see Wee) and French (see oui in Wiktionary).

--Damian Yerrick (☎) 18:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The segment does not appear to be tagged for a citation, so it should be deleted outright. Just64helpin 20:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Now it is. The reference wasn't as clear as when I first read the section. Just64helpin 17:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It was there all along, and I do think that putting a reference for every single statement is overkill. Imagine if you got three citations to the same place when you were listing off the system dimensions. Just plain silly. Regardless I'll let it slide, just please, don't EVER suggest to delete something the moment you see it doesn't have a little superscript reference number right next to it. You'll get people upset by suggesting their contributions aren't worth keeping, even if it's just because you didn't look closely enough at the citations. --Twile 21:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Then please add a citation. --Damian Yerrick (☎) 00:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

It was also decided that "Wee" not be mentioned in the article (right here if you can't find it). Just64helpin 14:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ugh, don't get me started again. This was brought up many times, only one of which I was involved for. The final "vote" was a silly one-sided slam-fest which went on for less than 24 hours, during which I wasn't even able to put my thoughts in. I worked rather hard to produce something that was a compromise between being respectful to Nintendo, unoffensive to readers, had citations from reliable sources, and was respectful to gamers (i.e. NOT acting like everyone was happy as can be about the name). As for your earlier comment about deleting from no citations, STFU. Just STFU. I've earned the right to say that to you because I did make sure there were citations. Take a look at the Gamasutra article. See the first sentence? It mentions urine references. Now search the page for the word "French", and *gasp* it says "Of course, it also sounds like the French word for "yes," "oui" ". And if the first part with the urine reference isn't good enough, look right below this bit about the "oui" and what do you know, it actually uses the word "wee". You, madam/sir, are wrong on both counts, and the citations are right in front of your face. Drop this here and now. --Twile 18:28, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Drop what, exactly? I was merely making a suggestion. Just64helpin 21:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Canada Flag, again
I'm afraid I will need to request that the Canadian Flag to be put back. We North Americans unfortunately do not have a flag to represent out continent like Europe. So the Canadian flag should be place right next to the American one (no need to put the date twice). Duhman0009 23:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just for claryfication, where is it supposed to go? In the Wii userbox-like thing on the right?--Farquaadhnchmn 00:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=85660955&oldid=85626642 Duhman0009 00:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thread1

 * If we did that, we would need a flag for Mexico, at least, and technically the flags or Columbia and Peru. If you guys want to do USA, CAN, and MEX, that could work. Scepia 00:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Usually the US flag represents North America unless the other countries have different release dates. Besides, if we add Canada then why not every other single flag? TJ Spyke 00:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that a general public view on a flag to represent other countries counts as a personal POV, which is no accepted on Wikipedia. To answer to both you and Scepia, either add all the required flags or just put NA which stands for North America. Duhman0009 01:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have added all N. American countries to the infobox, so now the flags are on the top line and the date on the second line. Unfortunately they are not all the same size. Scepia 02:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We should probably substitute a Flag of North America for the most populous North American country, as that seems the most neutral option. Not that neutral, really, but a bit less neutral.-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 02:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I come from one of those less populous countries and I find this idea to be a discrimination. Duhman0009 02:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't like the idea much myself. Why don't we just change it to "NA" and "SA" until international flags are organized by the two continents.-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with this. Flags are used for the look and because it's far easier to read a flag and realize its resemblance than to see "NA" and understand what it means (though you'd generally realize it anyway, it just doesn't look as good). The United States, Canada and Mexico will never have a flag like Europe does until the Free Trade Area of the Americas act passes, because they are under a trade agreement which combined their money. This is a moot point - back to the topic. Discrimination or not, Wikipedia is not a democracy and is not fair. They are neutral. Spain is seperated from the European Union because they have a different release date. North America is set to United States because they are the bigger country in terms of population. No matter what side you stand on, you have to take this into account, and for space reasons, we have this set up as such. Same with Australia. What this wikibox will NOT turn into is every country trying to get an equal piece of the pie, because 500 countries would be rediculous. However, they are more than welcome to have a piece of the table. It's been tried, and it has failed. However, by all means, Argentina can be happily added. In fact, I'll do that myself. The Wii homepage says nothing about South America. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 03:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Your spelling is. -lysdexia 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Has everyone (including me) gone paranoid over this conversation, responding every five seconds?-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What about the Flag of the North American Free Trade Agreement?-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh god. Shoot yourself in the foot! If that actually goes through, I'm moving to Mars. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 03:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This is still for NA alone. And not even passed :P Wii is releasing in NA and SA. Scepia 03:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thread2

 * Scepia, Peru and Columbia are South American countries (or did you forget you geography?). That was just clutter, having like 5 flags on the same line. TJ Spyke 02:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed there are. I don't know why I tought they were part of Central America (which would have counted for North America). Well in that case, perhaps a SA for South America date should be added. 02:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)Duhman0009 02:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Obviously, the USA flag represents South America. Your reasoning is invalid. BTW I changed it to the text NA considering that representing all parties is "just ugly". Scepia 02:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I menat the US flag just representing North America. The most populous South American flag in the range of countries that will be selling Wiis could represent South America.  The only truly neutral way would be to organize an international committee for the formation of North American and South American flags.-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I have to disagree and I'm sure you would also if Canada was the most populous country in NA. Duhman0009 03:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe I would, I dunno...please see my comment above.-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand you idea, but let's face the 2 facts here: 1- North America does not have a flag to represent it's continent, we're stuck with multiple flags. 2- The US flag does not in any way represent North America, stating otherwise is not only plain wrong but it also brings out discrimination issues. Duhman0009 03:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not one of my better ideas, thought up on the spot and heavily influenced by another person. I think "NA" and "SA" is the best choice now.-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I would like that as well. I know of some other pages that don't use flags, like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_fantasy_vii Duhman0009 03:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm disagreeing with the whole "Text" thing, because the reason of the Wii infobox is a smooth reading of quick information. Flags show far more information much faster than writing it out, and thats why it's used. NA and SA not only look disgusting, but they're TRUNCATED. (flag) reads faster than (North America). The infobox is purely cosmetic, and you're smearing marker on it. Why not get rid of it? — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 03:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * May I re-point out my other comment, in case it hasn't been noticed, about the flag of NAFTA?-- the ninth bright shiner  talk 03:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The NAFTA flag only represents NA, not SA too. Plus, that flagicon would have to be created, since the image is 3D. Scepia 03:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * FTAA and NAFTA are disgusting pieces of legislation created by millionaires who wish to merge countries together so they can exploit more workers, makeing costs to employ people drop due to how cheaply they work in Mexico and SA. By what I've read, it FTAA includes South America too. I will never live under that flag of slavery, and neither will this article. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 04:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That sounds like POV to me, Shanesan. It's an economic agreement that comes with a flag, kinda like EU agreements, and it's as valid as using the EU flag to represent Europe, instead of umpteen different flags on that line. Your opinions on the motivations of the treaty behind that flag have nothing to do with whether or not it would make for a good visual symbol of North America (and it would certainly beat the current situation of microscopic acronyms). TheWarlock 18:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoops, I realized after reading these comments that Peru and Colombia are in fact in S. America :P Using all the flags would be more consistent and less ambiguous. I changed it to NA and SA, and maybe it will stay that way. Scepia 03:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thread3

 * Tell me everyone, what is wrong with having the five flags on one line and the release date on the next line? They must take up a total 2 KB, and there is no issue at all of discrimination. Scepia 03:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently, it's "ugly" or something, but I don't see much wrong with it. Maybe we could try it in a different, more visually appealing format so everybody's happy.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 03:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And that would be...? We could do superscript text like on the FF page, but that is not as quick and uglier (as said above) Scepia 03:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The purpose of the textbox is cosmetic. It quickly conveys information, and thats its job. Throwing every country in the nation on the same line when someone can scroll one page down for all the information destroys what the box is trying to convey - ease of information. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 03:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We all understand the USA icon represents NA and SA, but someone who doesn't know this, let alone that the USA is the figurehead for NA, should not have to scroll down to the table. It's all about ease and speed of info. Scepia 03:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Well this is getting us no where >_>. OK, I think Wikipedia must have a dummy page that would allow us to play around and compare results. If so, let's keep in mind that using any single country's flag to represent a continent is wrong. Also, let's try to decide on using flags or abbreviations. Duhman0009 03:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I can understand the South America aspect. If thats your primary case, go right ahead, add a South American country. However, adding any other countries other than the largest in South America would be a detriment to the infobox than a help. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 03:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * People please, stop using the excuse of the largest or most popular country. No where in the world does a single country represent the entire continent based on size or population. Wikipedia is suppose to be like a real encyclopedia and real encyclopedias don't use the American flag to represent Canada and Mexico. Duhman0009 04:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Brazil is the most populous country. The Wii has not even been announced for Brazil, so using the Brazil flagicon is totally misleading.

The fact is that there are only 5 countries in the Americas that Wii is being released in (that we know of so far) so it wouldn't be the end of the world to use all of them (at this point at least). In truth, there are only 2 SA countries with known Wii releases. Using two flagicons is not much different from using one, and the former is much more accurate. Scepia 04:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If we're going to put more flags for NA on this article, the same would have to be done for all the other articles involving releases (ie. game pages, other systems, etc.). This is rediculous, it doesn't really matter. Geez.--Purplepurplepurple 04:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I hope you're not American or else your opinion raise a conflict of interest. And regarding others pages, well, one page at the time.Duhman0009 04:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * A "real" encyclopedia isn't online and doesn't have these abilities to talk to others and be able to be up to date 24/7 either. I digress, however, and say if you're going to add Canada, maybe we should put in Russia, Afghanistan, Kazantzakis's, Uzbekistan, etc. etc. etc. Oh, I forgot, you'll have to put every country on this list reguardless of if they have a release date set or not, because if you don't, thats discrimination! Happy attempting to find your country in that. Give me a break! — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 04:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Objection! Wikipedia's rules and regulation state that everything must be written like a real encyclopedia. Second Objection! These listed countries do not have a Wii launch as of yet. Duhman0009 04:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You know that the Wii has no current release plans for Russia, correct? You know that we can only have info on countries that have release dates. Don't try to prove a point.

Thread4
I have made a sandbox for the Wii infobox here. Scepia 04:17, 5 November 2006 (UTC) Scepia 04:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, can I play around with that?Duhman0009 04:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, feel free. Just add new possibilites to a new row, below the 3 ideas given. We need all possible ideas. Scepia 04:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Anything in the manual of style about stuff like this?-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 04:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think that matters. It's all about what works in the article, what is most informative, fast, etc. There's no reason to worry about rules when we can do the right thing. Scepia 04:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I suggest we move this discussion to the User Page and vote on it, democracy or not. We won't solve the problem just like this. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 04:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Voting is fair as long as it doesn't include the choice of using a single country flag to represent a continent or else everyone will vote for their country's flag. the votes should be for: using abbreviations or different ways to use all the necessary flags.Duhman0009 04:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be even less fair. Any vote where a single flag isn't an option will be considered null and void IMO. TJ Spyke 04:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, then the vote for anyone from the same country counts as 1. Duhman0009 04:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've edited the All Icons idea, and now it actually doesn't look horrid. Comments, please. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 04:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the centered design. Duhman0009 05:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW guys, I tried something, what do you think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Duhman0009/draft1 Duhman0009 04:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not bad. But try taking out that space between the Flags of Peru and Japan, if you can find a different way of distinguishing where the first launch date ends and the second begins.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 04:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The first one in Scepia's (which is how the article looks now) is best IMO. I don't like the idea of adding in even more flags because that opens up the floodgates to add the flag of EVERY country where the Wii is releasing. Besides, why change a system that already works for video game related articles? TJ Spyke 05:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The places for release are NA, SA, AUS, NZ, IT, EUR, JAP, and SPA. All of them have a respective flagicon, except for NA and SA (NZ is combined into AUS). So really, if we had icon(s) or text for NA and SA we would be totally covered. However, when Ninty releases plans for all those other countries... Scepia 05:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The "All Icons" idea looks okay. Anyways, maybe this system needs some change.  It seems unfair to have one country represent others, when it doesn't in any way.  We should have everything equally represented, or that leaves the squeak of a non-neutral point of view.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 05:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Made some modifications 2 models: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Duhman0009/draft1 Duhman0009 05:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That looks okay, but...but I'm being overly critical about looks. I was thinking some sort of curly bracket thing (this thing--> } ), with the countries on the left and the date on the right.  Bah, we could just go with the "All Icons" thing at the sandbox.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 05:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't think the Info Box could hold 5 flags in a row with a release date next to it. Anyway, modified again (last time for tonight, going to sleep now) and I think that first one if the best. Even with 11 flags, it's still looks simple. Duhman0009 05:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Please vote on the options everyone. I've included Duhman0009's versions in the sandbox. Scepia 05:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * So has no one even suggested
 * [[Image:North america.svg|22px]]South america (1).jpg November 19, 2006
 * yet? (/me ducks). Could look less worse if someone just used Inkscape to cut the continents out of the full-world blank maps. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 06:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess nobody has mentioned this here, but there was a discussion about this subject on WP:CVG which has been archived here. You might consider some of the points raised there for this discussion. jaco ♫ plane 15:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

usb mouse and usb keyboard
will the wii support a mouse and keyboard?
 * We don't know.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 05:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope so, but thats the best I can do. ^_~ — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 05:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Australian Launch Titles
I'd just like to try confirm that Australia is getting the two System 3 titles - Gottlieb Pinball Classics and Super Fruit Fall. I'm trying to find a link at the moment, will post one if I find it. The only official confirmation I have at the moment is that my local EBgames has it on their pre-order list. Unofficial links:

http://www.wiichat.com/nintendo-wii-gaming/3814-australian-prices.html http://aussie-nintendo.com/?v=dates&sys=4

Could someone edit that for me? 138.130.216.18 07:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Although the Aussie-Nintendo website seems reliable, a forum like wiichat is not. If I were to change the Australian titles based on one site alone, some Stick in the Mud here might revert it back. If you can find something from GameSpot, IGN or anything else with a big name, I'll change it for sure. Duhman0009 15:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Those have both been in the list for the last 3 days. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There are there, but it says NO for Australia. Duhman0009 04:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I already knew both of those things, they weren't really needed... doesn't matter anyway, I couldn't find anything using Gamespot, IGN, Nintendo of Australia's website (which usually doesn't have the correct information anyway) or many unknown unofficial sites. Changing it back to unknown would probably be the best thing to do as nothing has said otherwise. 138.130.216.18 07:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Wii is more important
Alright. Tell me, someone, why 3D Ant Attack, Breath of Fire, and Dreamfall are all rated of more importance than the Wii. Aren't video game consoles of high, or even top importance? It's not even medium. It's low - see Category:Low-importance computer and video game articles. Scepia 09:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wii#Categorization: because this has already been discussed.--Farquaadhnchmn 13:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't care that it's already been discussed! It is entirely senseless to call some unknown game of high-importance when Wii is low. It's not about being all goody and following the rules mommy gave you. If your goal is to follow the rules, you won't change much, will you? Scepia 16:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't see how 3D Ant Attack contributes a greater depth of knowledge than the Wii.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 16:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Importance in the real world is correlated at least somewhat by interest, and I can tell you that no one is interested in 3D Ant Attack. Millions are interested in Wii. Scepia 16:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There are quite a number of articles that are not rated correctly. The rating on Talk:3D Ant Attack should not have been high either, but should have been low, I've corrected it. If you disagree with a rating then the best thing to do is to raise it on CVG talk. jaco ♫ plane  17:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the context -- importance is relative to the context. The Wii article is of low importance for Wikipedia 1.0 context, but of high importance within gaming context.  So which one do we list on the CVG template (which does, after all, say "within gaming"?) --Stratadrake 18:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC).

By those standards, every CVG article would be of low or no importance. If you really wanna do that, feel free, but boy will you be chewed up. These consoles are at least mid-importance. The problem with the "in-gaming" rating is that the WP:1.0 equivalents aren't exactly known, or possible to decide without having inaccuracies. Scepia 19:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think part of the reason PS3 and Wii are Low is because neither are available yet and are still considered future products. TJ Spyke 20:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Guys, you will realize this is low importance to Wiki 1.0 because it's a current event. It is not yet history, and is daily undergoing change. How do you slap that on a CD? — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But like I said, the template says "withing gaming", and the Wii is certainly of high interest within that context, especially because it is a current event. That's why this confusion is coming up.
 * Nevermind, I'll just twak the cvgproj template to clarify that the "importance"" parameter is for WP1.0 context. --Stratadrake 16:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Italy price
The italy price Is 259€ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.53.135.233 (talk • contribs)
 * Weird... The exact same site, on another page lists the price as 249. Scepia 16:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

|The Italian newspaper La Stampa

|The Italian Videogame site

Other Italian Site:



The Wii Homepage have 8 December 2006 for relase date
 * It seems that the Italian Wii homepage only has info on the Eurozone launch, wheareas going in a little further to the site and to other sites like those mentioned, it's 259 on December 7. Perhaps due to the Immaculate Conception like the Spanish launch? Scepia 19:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Motive for the relase date: Immaculate Conception

Motive for the Price: IVA

For the price comparison table: VAT (IVA) in Italy for goods like Wii is 20%. See VAT at VAT Rates table.

Regarding the Flag debate
Sorry to post this here, but the previous topic we started is way to large. I've added something important on the Flag Debate Sandbox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Scepia/Wii_sandbox Duhman0009 21:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone else agree to a page archive
This discussion page is starting to be huge (last night's debate didn't help :P). Perhaps an archive is in order. Duhman0009 23:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 117 kilobytes? Seems archivable enough.-- <font style="background:black" color="silver">the ninth bright shiner  <font style="background:black" color="silver">talk 23:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We're at 113 KB now, almost back up there, over the course of six days. Archive anyone? Scepia 03:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Should we mention the kiosks?
Some EB Games or Gamestops have Wii demo kiosks up now.

Isn't that important to mention?


 * Not by itself, but we could do with a section on Nintendo's promotional efforts. They're making a big deal about the roadshows and the "hands-on" aspect. Sockatume 00:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I just used the kiosks (which need a valid driver license because the remote is wireless and they don't want you running away with it) at Gamestop and it is amazing... i think you should put somewhere that info for people. It was a great experience. i am going back to my mall for the sole purpose of playing it again. I played Excite Truck. AMAZING! ~Theareen~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.187.17.186 (talk • contribs)
 * Why? I'm glad you enjoyed it, but just about every console has demo kiosks out shortly before the system comes out. TJ Spyke 03:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This isn't a news site, it's an encyclopedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dprior (talk • contribs)
 * im just stating a reason to mention it
 * How about mentioning the Play Wii promotion in Australia? ~  E meZ  x  X  ` 10:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Wii-Remote
Well, I thought that I should add input that there are no images of the Wii-Remote present in the article. Since the Wii is primarily based on the Wii-Remote, I am also opinionated that the article should include a photograph of the Wii-Remote. Even the PlayStation 3 article includes an image of the SixAxis, and it looks identical to all other PlayStation controllers.
 * Good point 80.229.241.200 23:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I added an image. Scepia 01:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not that good of an image. No problem though, I already said (although it looks archived now) that I will take a picture of the Wii and everything inside when I get it at launch, and then upload them. I will release the pics into public domain and they can be used as the official pics since they will be free (and good quality) pics. TJ Spyke 01:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You might want to show the front and back like the current image, and make sure you use a background that we can tell what the controller is! Like black. Scepia 04:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It will be a brown backround, but it will be a clear image. TJ Spyke 04:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's always photoshoppable if need be. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 14:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

wii built in sd memory
is the wii able to save gamecube games to its internal memory without the gamecube memory cards? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Falcon866 (talk • contribs)
 * Nope. GameCube games can only be saved to GameCube memory cards. When you play GameCube games the Wii basically turns into a GameCube (like the DS turns into a GBA when you play GBA games on it) and can't access things like the Wii's flash memory or SD cards. TJ Spyke 03:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * However, it has not been denied that you cannot transfer your NGC Memory Card content to Flash memory for save or storage keeping. This would be similar to transferring PSX memory blocks to a PS2 Memory Card for more storage. Duhman0009 18:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps someone should pester IGN to check on their dev unit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sockatume (talk • contribs)

Need for Speed: Carbon
I am confused. Need for Speed: Carbon is said to be released on Nov. 17 in North America, per the game's page. However, it is not listed on the Wii launch section. I added it to the List of Wii games page, but I need to know if this is correct or not. Is the November 17 release date correct, and even if it is correct, does that qualify it as a launch title? Since the games releases 2 days before the Wii, I think it should be considered a launch title, because it will be available at launch. Scepia 04:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It IS listed in the launch section, and has been there for months. TJ Spyke 04:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Gamecube memory card?
Shouldn't the gamecube memory card be listed under "Storage"? I mean if even MASK-ROM is listed there, the gamecube memory card should be listed. --213.66.62.73 21:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 22:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Leaked Target Shipment Inventories
Added an external link to the target shipment info tracking website, per digg.com: http://www.digg.com/gaming_news/WII_Target_Inventories_now_on_Google_Maps Eugene a 00:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It really doesn't seem significant to me. This is an encyclopedia, not a buying guide. --Maxamegalon2000 00:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The fact that the inventory numbers were leaked could be notable, but not a finder. It ain't a game guide. Scepia 01:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Wii are not amused
by stupid vandalism. Keep out, PlayStation freak-o's. Chris


 * I'm a PlayStation freak-o. Don't assume all PlayStation Freak-os are page vandals. Teh Shingen 22:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Technical Info on the Wii
Should the precise processor numbers be added, like at ? ... It has the Mhz of the processors and I thought that it would be worthy to add to the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.165.39.242 (talk • contribs)
 * No, it's already been agreed not to because those numbers cannout be verified. TJ Spyke 01:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe someone can post the additional specs, but include a comment such as "according to developers" or "according to IGN.com's reporters." What would be wrong with that? 69.86.135.171 13:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Because those numbers cannot be verified until the release of the system. We are only going to put confirmed information on the page.-- Farquaadhnchmn <sub style="color:green;">( Dungeon ) 14:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

"The" issue, again
I thought the last round of Talkpage discussions on this matter seemed to prefer phrasing such as 'the' Wii, and 'the console'. But that still leaves the intro sentence -- "Wii" or the "Wii"? An alternative intro phrasing was "Wii is the name of...", but it never fails, lame reverts ensue over any edit to the intro. I know it's one of the reasons this article is on WP:LAME, but this is precisely what Talk pages are for, sillies. Don't revert without speaking up.

Lame or not, how about a quick poll on this subject? --Stratadrake 14:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I prefer the Wii. It's the common naming convention when referring to other videogame console (even on Wikipedia; and don't stuff beans up your nose), and how a lot of people naturally refer to them things over time.  It's the more common usage, and since this is article is not about a scientific subject, Wikipedia naming conventions would recommend the common name, i.e. optimizing for readers over editors.  Nintendo's style guide recommends using it in declarative statements to take advantage of the similarity to "we", but that's a marketing scheme and they are about the only ones doing that. --Stratadrake 14:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The Wii. Its proper english. but out with The console.Quatreryukami 16:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * My reasoning is that "Wii" is a pure proper noun, unlike "the WonderSwan" for example (which contains the common noun "swan"). There is also no reason to change "the console" to "the Wii" within the article. If editors choose to use "Wii" like a common noun, one might as well use actual common nouns (this also avoids having multiple instances of "Wii" within the same section). Just64helpin 17:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think historically it's always been "the" to refer to inanimate objects. For example "the pie" or "the Amiga" or "the 1800 Virgin Rail express service to Doncaster", so that's the version I'm backing. It's certainly in wide use . Sockatume 17:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sockatume, there are also items like "TiVo" (rather than "the TiVo") to consider. EDIT: Upon further reflection, I've noticed that "pie" is a common noun, "the Amiga" is a grouping, and "1800 Virgin Rail" is used as an adjective. (Hey, I notice things...)   Just64helpin 18:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Then again "the NES", "the SNES", "the N64", "the GameCube", etc., can all be correct grammer. -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 18:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no need to check history or anything, any object can be used with The in front of it, doesn't matter if people used it or not for an object in particular. Let's not use pop culture as an excuse for bad grammar. Duhman0009 22:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just64Helpin: can you please link me to a page showing that proper nouns containing common nouns are somehow grammatically different than "pure" proper nouns? Try this on for size: "John took Lisa to Taco Bell." Taco Bell is composed of two common nouns, yet John never took Lisa to the Taco Bell. If John and Lisa were playing their new video game system, they didn't play Wii; John and Lisa played the Wii, their Wii, or a Wii. Remember that the Wii is not a one-of-a-kind item: millions are being produced, and, more than likely, millions of people will be buying and playing the console. The former introduction "Wii is the name of..." is grammatically accurate (because "the name" modifies "Wii"), but it's an ugly phrase; the current introduction is also grammatically accurate and better follows the norm for introducing consoles in articles.


 * Example for comparison: Honda. "Honda" is a company; "A Honda" is a motor vehicle produced by said company.  A person owning a Honda Accord is certainly not going to say "I own Honda" or "I own Accord", but "I own a Honda" or "I own an Accord". There's been no shortage of reverts over the issue of "the", but from the recent discussions (including two weeks from archive #17) there is either a unanimous consensus for using "the", or a lack of participation from the opposing side. --Stratadrake 02:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Man, I don't know what's more ironic; a French guy teaching basic English grammar to English folks, or that someone needs to teach basic grammar to people that wish to write something in an Encyclopedia.


 * Everything is a case by case scenario. It's not that you need to put The in front of everything, it's because you CAN put it depending on how you phrase it.


 * “What kind of car do I have? Well I have an Honda Civic.”


 * “Introducing THE Honda Civic”


 * “What am I doing? Well I'm playing Zelda on Wii”


 * “What is this machine you ask? Well that's THE Wii from Nintendo”


 * You see where I'm getting at?    Duhman0009 03:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah... (and PS: who's the French guy?) --Stratadrake 03:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That would be me >_> Duhman0009 04:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

So as a summary, the debate is basically:

Arguments favoring the Wii
 * Common English grammar (see examples above)
 * Consistency with other Wikipedia articles

Arguments favoring Wii
 * Nintendo.com's promotional campaign (i.e. 'Wii will change gaming forever')

If you think of other logical arguments you can add, feel free to add them to the summary. :::--Stratadrake 02:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't want to seem like I've been picking on one thing in this article without making contributions; I have, in fact, been compiling a development history of the Wii, and I'll add it in the article when I have time. I would also recommend removing the launch titles table (at least by the time of the console's release) and "prosifying" the contents into a general "release" section. For example, you could mention that the console notably launched with Twilight Princess, a "Wii Series" line-up of games, Excite Truck, and a slew of Ubisoft games. The release section would also be a good place to discuss initial sales of the console. On an unrelated note, check out the newest GameSpot gameplay video for Twilight Princes (where the NoA guys are interviewed): it looks amazing! --Tristam 00:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

...How you will be playing Zelda this year on Wii.
 * This is where THE Wii issue ends. [Youtube]. When declaring it as as the direct meaning to the sentance, it is "Wii".


 * However, when you're referencing to the Wii in a different respect, it's "The Wii"


 * So the Wii version of Twilight Princess...


 * I hope this helps clear up the issue. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 04:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You are mistaken. The "the" in the latter statement refers to TP, not Wii. "The ____ version of TP" would always be correct. There is no doubting that. "_____ version of TP" is never correct. In that context they don't mean The Wii, the mean the Wii _____, in that the Wii has possession of something. If it had said "Twilight Princess for the Wii, you would have a valid argument, but they just say "the ____ version of TP", with Wii in the blank. Nintendo could not justify saying "So Wii version of TP..." It's not proper English and Ninty knows that. Scepia 05:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Man, how screwed is this world getting if we need to start talking about a game console like it was a living being just because the company that made it does? Duhman0009 05:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If you want to defy everything and change every single instance to "the Wii", go ahead. I bet 5 seconds. Scepia 05:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Go back up and read a bit of my previous writting. That's enough reaping myself for one month >_>. Duhman0009 05:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Scepia, if you have a logical argument in favor of simply Wii over the Wii other than Nintendo's own marketing strategy, please say what it is. And don't forget, virtually every Wikipedia article on videogame hardware already refers to their subject as "the ____", why should the Wii article be treated any different?  See my summary of arguments above.  --Stratadrake 14:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Old Games
Hi, I have been told repeatedly that the Wii will somehow have access to libraries of old games. This seems pretty significant, so I was wondering if it shouldn't be mentioned in the article? GBMorris 23:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe you're referring to the Virtual Console and if I'm right, that's been in the articvle for months now. // Sasuk  e  -kun  27  23:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Launch Titles question
I know "Yes" means the game's going to be released on the launch day, "No" means the game's not going to be released or a couple more weeks/months from the launch date to be released. But what does "Unknown" means? Tyrannoranger 8 November 2006
 * If "yes" means that it will be a launch game and "no" means the exact opposite, it should be kind of obvious what "unknown" means. It means we don't know, at the moment, whether it's a launch game or not. // Sasuk  e  -kun  27  01:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So that's what "Unknown" means. And as for "No", doesn't that mean you gotta wait for a couple more weeks/months after Wii's launch? User:TyrannoRanger 9 November 2006

Urine. Get over it.
Wee wee wee. C'mon, is it really neccessary to censor the truth because you are too old to talk about wee?

...ridiculed the name for its phonetic similarities to words in English and French.

Those are weasel words. Saying that implies that it is just a neutral connection, not a connection to a negative word like wee.

The truth is, people connected the word to urine and the like. I don't care what WP users did/didn't think about the name, but the truth is IGN, GameSpot, Joystiq, Engadget, really everyone outside of CNN mocked the name for the said meanings.

Denying the less serious phonetic similarities is immature in itself, and it gets WP nowhere. Scepia 05:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Every language has it's own joke with the name. Try making Oui and Wii sound different. I'd love to see how most you that are into PCs for a long time got use to saying Pentium and not 586. Duhman0009 05:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah it's a joke, but it's not some weird blogger that created it. It was everywhere! There can be references to real-world jokes on WP. You wont get a 5-year-old alert. Scepia 06:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * OY!! Is this STILL being argued??  -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 06:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a right to protest it Scepia 07:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think certain editors heavily invest their time in protecting the Wii from any criticism. As Scepia stated, multiple reliable sources compared the console's name with slang for urine. The grammatical issue (above) takes precedence over the inclusion of something like this, so I really don't care about it. I'm just surprised that editors will skirt the issue by describing the criticism as "phonetic similarities" rather than coming right out and saying what those phonetic similarities are. The thing that most annoys me is a matter of principle: the editors never give rationale for excluding the mention of urine; most often it's always some B.S. like "it's childish, drop it," "are we STILL discussing this silly issue," or "this doesn't even need to be discussed." --Tristam 08:59, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The poll on archivepage #14 showed a 100% consensus for NOT mentioning the urine reference, which means that either nobody wants to hear it, or those who do didn't take any time to vote. Tristam is correct in that most of the arguments were little more than labelling it "utterly stupid", "ridiculous", "lame", "silly", "childish", or "bathroom humor" (and maybe it is); the only NPOV reasons given in the strawpoll were WP:NOR and WP:V (mentioned by The Viper), in that while many, many sources criticized the name, finding even one that specifically mentions urine is not so straightforward.  And if it can't be verified, it can't be demonstrated as non-original research. --Stratadrake 14:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's my two cents: Why would you want to include something that lasted for about a day or two? Is it that noteworthy to give it it's own section? Worse still, is it noteworthy enough to go into the introduction? I (and a lot of other people) think not.-- Farquaadhnchmn <sub style="color:green;">( Dungeon ) 22:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No, that vote was not 100%, and the vote was ended early because someone said "we already voted on this." Your argument falls flat on it's face because "either nobody wants to hear it, or those who do didn't take any time to vote" is no justification for not making the best content on WP. I don't care what you wanna hear, in fact if I throw articles at you that oppose your viewpoints, do you have a right to delete them? No, it's about having the most accurate content, and the fact is that people ridiculed the name. The Gamasutra article linked to the phonetic similarities mentiones urine jokes in the first sentence. Scepia 23:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The poll on archive #14, despite only running for two days, shows that while there was a helluva lot of discussion, the actual votes cast were "No" votes. Does that not mean a 100% voting consensus?  You can say it's not the whole picture, but you can't say I just made the number up out of thin air. My point stands, either there was 100% support at the time of voting, or nobody who opposed it actually cast a vote.  I suspect the latter. --Stratadrake 14:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * E3 lasted for 3 days. 9/11 happened on one. Should we delete those articles because they didn't take a long time? Scepia 22:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * This argument will never die. Perhaps when the "Nintendo Puu" comes out, it can be considered notable.  -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 22:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

While it is true that no one mentioned urine straight out, it's obvious they made jokes about it. There's no reason to avoid the subject just because no one said "urine" in their analysis of the name. They made various other jokes, many phallic. And FYI, SaturnYoshi, why don't you give input as to why it shouldn't be mentioned instead of complaining childishly? I have every right to bring it up. You don't have to respond. Scepia 22:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I also noticed that the Gamsutra article linked to the phonetic similarities sentence mentiones urine jokes in the first sentence!

"Reactions to Nintendo's recent announcement of the company's new console name, "Wii", have been decidedly heated, and the Internet is ablaze with not unexpected urine jokes and Photoshop parodies." Scepia 23:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * First of all, I'm not saying whether it should or should not be added. All I want is for this topic to come to an agreement so more important things can be discussed.  I'm fine with either outcome.  -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 23:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Can't you guys just seriously keep with "pointed out phonetic similarities to the French word oui, and mostly negative words in English" and add additional sources? This is really immature, and just because the internet is ablaze with pee pee jokes (wii wii jokes, gimme a break), doesn't mean it has to be moved into the formal world of Wiki. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 00:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I just changed it to that, after most of this conversation. I think it should stay as you quoted. Scepia 00:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

It is now "...pointed out phonetic similarities to the French word oui, and mostly negative words in English..." This makes no reference to urine, and it eliminates the idea that used to be in the article that Wii<--->oui was ridiculed, when in fact people just pointed out the association. I noticed on the Gamasutra page that the Scottish "wee" means little, so we may want to incorporate that. Everyone happy? Scepia 00:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I do think that people can make their own assumptions on "Wii". 'lol pee", "lol oui", "lol we", "lol spandex" whatever. Should we just list off what everyone thinks of when they say 'Wii'? I think it's fine the way it is, and to leave it alone! — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 00:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The point of WP is to give complete, unbiased information. It was connected to urine and things, hugely, so it should be mentioned. And as far as the old info goes, it was misleading. People did not ridicule the connection to the French word oui, but they did ridicule it in English. I don't care what your maturity level is, it's about non-bias. Scepia 00:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In that same light, should we remove the part on "they should have kept it as Revolution" so people can come to that conclusion themselves? Scepia 00:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That actually sounds like a POV statement, and the provided reference doesn't state that. -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 00:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thats completely what this is, SaturnYoshi. This whole discussion is what your Point of View is when you think "Wii". Talking about "Revolution" is different than talking about Wii, because that was the original name Wii was. Whats the rule where one is exploiting another idea to make ones idea seem more feasible? Thats whats going on here. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't comparing Wii with Revolution the same as comparing Wii with wee? They both involve judgements about the name, they are both opinion. People didn't say "it used to be Revolution". They said "Wii is worse than the old Revolution name." In the same respect, they didn't say "Wii sounds like wee," they said "Wii must be a toilet." Scepia 01:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What? No, not at all. The REVOLUTION was the development code name. Wee is some immature internet pop-culture tard joke because they thought the code name was better than the release name, same as codename "Dolphin" was "liked" more than the final release name, Gamecube. Adding in how immature the internet forum-jockies are in the Wii article isn't it's rightful place to be. Crap like that should end up here. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 06:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, every staff member from IGN, GameSpot, and Joystiq is an internet forum-jocky. I can deal with that. Scepia 06:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * An interesting point which I haven't seen made is that it loses all the connotations of "we" when it's used in a non-English-speaking country. So for example in France its name has more to do with success, and in at least one other country, its only real meaning is a slang term for the vagina. It's a curiously anglo-centric name. That's my take, anyway, as I say it's not turned up in a citable source. Sockatume 01:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I was refering to this quote: "they should have kept it as Revolution". It's a POV statement.  -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 01:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * But the GS article did say they preffered Revo. They said along the lines of 'Wii sounds like _______, they should have kept Revo'. Scepia 01:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok then. What if ush liked pancakes. It wa reported by major news networks that he liked pancakes. Would that be relevant on Wikipedia? no. Zazaban 17:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Vote for removal of Wii launch titles
I think this article should be cleaned up and the launch game sub category removed, perhaps a link out to a seperate wiki like the Ps3 (playstation 3) Remember this is an article, like an encylopedia, it shouldn't be used for promotional purposes or viral marketing.--64.231.255.85 10:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the launch titles do deserve their own page. Duhman0009 12:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Please don't create a separate page exclusively for List of Wii launch titles. If you really want, you can add it as a separate section in List of Wii games. However, I do agree that the list of launch titles needs to go. --Tristam 17:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * To be sure, List of Wii launch titles has its own article. If 64.231.255.85 is referring to a web page outside of Wikipedia, then I fail to see how that would be relevant to this talk page. Just64helpin 18:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a page, Launch title, that has a list of known launch games for most game systems. The table should remain on the Wii page for now, and at least for a few weeks after launch, then maybe slim it down to just the North American launch titles. 19:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

That section is quite large, I can't believe that some people thought that adding all flags in the Infobox was large while the game section takes like 1/5 of the page. Let's look on how compact the PS3 games section is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3#Games. Although I find it rather strange, it is compact. The Developer & Publisher sections should be removed, if people wants to know who made a game, they can just click on the titles. Also, we could simply add the same little abbreviation like NA and SA next to the tiles to confirm the launch are and to eliminate the Region section. I'll try to play around in the sandbox and show you possible examples. Duhman0009 22:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The ps3 section is smaller because of fanboys for nintendo and microsoft, they always chop up the ps3 article but if you look at their edits, they do the exact opposite for Wii or 360... --64.231.254.95 23:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems PS3 has its own games section now as well, all 3 next gen consoles seem to be even in this case, I retract my vote and hope to stop the debate here. Sorry for wasting your time guys. Although the Wii article looks messy, perhaps it should be in format like the PS3 or Xbox 360 articles--64.231.254.95 00:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Wii Linux Distribution
http://www.wiili.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#WiiLi_Information "WiiLi is a live Linux CD that makes the Nintendo Wii boot into a full Linux Desktop without the need of a mod chip or hardware modification."

That is nice, should it make the main page? Looks that it will be even better than the PS3 YellowDog. It also says that will play backup games...

I don't know about how notable that is, but at first glance I just have to think "O WiiLI?". Sorry if it's off-topic --Stratadrake 14:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hah. Actually, I think on topic. This is completely unfounded right now. From the page: "As you know the Nintendo Wii is heavily based on the Gamecube. It's very easy already to run Linux under a Gamecube so it should also work on the Nintendo Wii. While is not ready yet, it should see the light very soon." Yeah, all he has to do is break the copyright protection, find out how the hardware has changed from the Gamecube, compensate for said changes, and so on. It's non-news right now. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 20:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, exactly. The latest version of the GameCube hardware point-blank refuses to run swap disks, so the Wii is likely to be even more of a pain. Sockatume 01:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Battalion Wars 2: Launch Title?
Are you guys sure Battalion Wars 2 isn't going to be a launch title? If you go to wii.nintendo.com and click on "Take a sneak peek at the unprecedented Wii launch lineup" then you'll see BW2 in that list. Just so you know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IeditWikipedia (talk • contribs)
 * They just list a bunch of firsty party games, including games we know won't be a launch.
 * Actually, that page isn't all launch titles. The link said they were launch titles, but the actual page makes no indication that they all are launch titles. Scepia 00:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Living the Game
Since when I put info up about the promotional DVD it got deleted immediately. Can someone help me get this up on the page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr Dink (talk • contribs).
 * Why should it be in? What does it do to help the article? TJ Spyke 20:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Well if you don't think it should be in then I guess it doesn't. I just thought promotional materials would add to the Wii page, making it a more informative section. Mr Dink 20:56, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * My personal opinion is that its like adding in kiosks info, it's nice but doesn't really do anything for the article. TJ Spyke 21:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, well good luck with this and I'll just make a page about the disc. Living the Game. Mr Dink 21:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That stub of an article will never last. Besides, a disc promoting a couple games for the Wii is not the same as promoting the Wii itself.  -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 21:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I just prodded it, this is even worse than the article on the Wii Startup Disc (I think that article should be deleted as well). TJ Spyke 21:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree on deleting both. The actual functions of the Startup Disc will not be enough to sustain an entire article.  If anything else, it could be merged with Wii, but maybe even that's a stretch.  -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 22:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, both are non-notable and the Startup Disk page is a bunch of speculation. Scepia 00:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Wii Startup Disc falls under the official definition of stub, citing: "A stub is an article that is too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of the subject, but not so short as to provide no useful information. To qualify as a stub it must at least define the meaning of the article's title." Also, "If little or no information beyond the definition is ever likely to be included the entry should go to our sister project called Wiktionary." Since the page will be expanded on in 1.5 weeks, a proposition for deletion fails through the above rules, and it will not be removed through "speculation", because the supposed "speculation" in the page is dated and appropriately sourced. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The article will NEVER be expanded, it's just a disc that you load in the first time you turn on the Wii. It can be covered in 1 or 2 sentences in the Wii article. As soon Nintendo officially announces this, it's going up for deletion. TJ Spyke 01:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the entire page is speculation, common sense tells one that a page of speculation is not OK. Scepia 01:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You both think so small. Once this disk is hacked and the firmware(?) understood, the community will be able to do ANYTHING with the Wii. Just a matter of time, and it's definately not of the essence (whether we want the Wii now or not). — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's speculation itself. The Xbox wasn't software hacked from the Dashboard upgrades, it was some obscure buffer overflow error that affected how three games accessed save games (the hardware hack was before that). The Xbox 360 was hacked because the DVD-drive's firmware was vulnerable; there are currently update discs out there for non-internet people, but they're still not hacked. The Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and blahblahblah. If the disc ever becomes more notable by means like this, then we should include it. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Until then, it needs to go. Scepia 02:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, Living the Game is definately not notable and there is no more information to expand it. -<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">Saturn <font color="green" face="comic sans ms">Yoshi <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES 01:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Scepia 01:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

'''I have made both pages into redirect pages to Wii. They were both stubby (for now at least, we don't know that they will ever be substantive) and the Wii Startup Disk page was based entirely on unverifiable sources.''' Scepia 05:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Reverted Wii Startup Disc. If you really want this done right, merge the pages first, or add more to the explanation of what exactly a Wii Startup Disk is in the Wii page (just because you're a hardcore gamer and know every single thing on the Wii, (which none of us do) doesn't mean the rest of us do) THEN redirect it. "Now! Now! Now!" as you've been pulling a lot of in the Nintendo pages the past few days, is going to get you in trouble. Oh, and verifiable sources? Kotaku and Joystique have both been doing a very good job on their information regarding the Wii. IGN should be the one you're looking at for unverifiable sources. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 06:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sure the Wii Startup Disk page has become the most valuable page on WP because someone said "Hey! Let's a make a page out of this! I found some unverifiable info on t3h j0ystixxxx!". Really, it has no place at WP, AKA no place in the Wii page. Scepia 07:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't read Joystiq or IGN regularly, so I don't know. But seriously, the former must have 50% speculation, 40% speculation-mixed-with-fact, and 9% dead wrong stuff. The last 1% is actual announcements. The point is, we can't go trusting a source that is wrong probably 20% of the time. Scepia 07:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I copied and pasted it in. Now it will be torn up into tiny shreds by the editors. Does it pass the Shanesan Seal of Approval? Scepia 07:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gimme a sec to check it out. While you wait, and if you're really on a deleting frenzy, start with this and this and... this! Have fun! — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 07:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, no. Not merged right. Hang on. Lemme edit this a little. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 07:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Though I still think it's in the wrong spot, that'll do for now. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 07:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

If no one else does by tomorrow, I'm going to nominate the Startup Disc article for deletion. Why is a software update to a product notable? This isn't even greatly verifiable, let alone notable and substantial enough to warrant an article. Heck, it even saves clicks to just leave a mention of this in the Wii article, rather than linking to another. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 07:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Never mind, I just did it. Why was the change to redirect reverted? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 08:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Because User:Shanesan thought they should be merged, and nominated for deletion. I think that was the fairest option. Scepia 08:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * At the same time? Okay, makes sense. I'm always editing at the wrong time of day for rational though (ie. 2AM). -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 08:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Er, redirect it that is. I read his comment again :) It's 0:08 here, yup. Scepia 08:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Question about audio support
So, the Wii has wi-fi support. Does that mean that it is going to be able to stream audio from a computer?--Nate 00:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That is unknown, although there may be more feature announcements like this in the future. Scepia 00:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Wii hardware
IGN is specifying the hardware for the WII as:

729 MHz IBM PowerPC "Broadway" CPU 243 MHz ATI "Hollywood" GPU 24MBs "main" 1T-SRAM 64MBs other 1T-SRAM 512MBs internal flash memory 3MBs texture memory on GPU Built-in 802.11b/g Wi-Fi capability One SD memory card bay AV multi-port: S-video, composite, component Analog (left/right) audio / DPLII Four GameCube controller ports Two GameCube Memory Pak slots Two USB 2.0 ports Compatible with up to four wireless Wii-motes Self-loading media drive Accepts 12cm Wii and 8cm GCN discs; no DVD movies

source: http://wii.ign.com/launchguide/hardware1.html

someone should update the hardware section for the page. Im a n00b so i cant do it quite yet.
 * Those specs aren't official. They were supposedly leaked, but they may have been inaccurate and it's possible the actual production specs are different. Nintendo hasn't really released technical specs for Wii. Scepia 00:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Reducing the size Launch title section
I stated this in the topic of Removing the Launch section:

That section is quite large, I can't believe that some people thought that adding all flags in the Infobox was large while the game section takes like 1/5 of the page.

The Developer & Publisher sections should be removed, if people wants to know who made a game, they can just click on the title. Also, we could simply add the same little abbreviation like NA and SA next to the tiles to confirm the launch are and to eliminate the Region section.

Here's a quick version that is way smaller and compact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Duhman0009/draft1

If you can make it look better, knock yourself out, I didn't patent this.

Duhman0009 03:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to change it, but the headers that say "Launch Titles A-M" and "Launch Titles M-W" are unneccessary. Plus, the superscript size is not consistent. It is excellent otherwise, though! Scepia 03:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well the headers were easy to remove (although the table looks rather naked now) but what do you mean by "superscript size is not consistent" ? Duhman0009 03:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think he means the region symbols. Take a look at Barnyard, the Europe symbol is higher than the others, it's mess up like that on others as well. TJ Spyke 03:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Think I corrected most of them. Duhman0009 04:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks much better. Unfortunately the A is really skinny, although you can do nothing about that :). I was bold and put it in the page. Scepia 04:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Which "A" are you talking about? They all look skinny, but then again, everything is in Italic style. Duhman0009 04:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * All the "A"s are skinny compared to the "E"s and "S" and such. That's the font though. Scepia 04:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure you should have. This seems like one of those things there should be a consenus on. TJ Spyke 04:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey read the history, I didn't change it. Duhman0009 04:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I was talking to Scepia, our replies just showed up at the same time. TJ Spyke 04:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we'll see when someone reverts it. Um, how do we vote? It's not like we have much time before launch. Scepia 04:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 10 days until launch. Simple,just let people say what they think. TJ Spyke 04:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Well my vote it to simply have it shorter. Modify it is you wish to make it prettier, I don't mind. Also, considering that you two are that majority of people that revert things around here, if you don't do it, don't think anyone else will. Duhman0009 04:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Voting
Please vote if you prefer the old table or the new table, made by User:Duhman0009, using the text Old or New and an explanation for your vote. Please leave other comments above, and sign your posts with four tildes. ~
 * New, it is short and sweet, making the page much more managable, without the bulky info. Scepia 04:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC) vote retracted, vote in new section below.
 * New, it doesn't take 1/5 of the page like the old one, that alone is an improvement. Duhman0009 04:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment, although I like the New version, Scepia went ahead and changed it already.-- Farquaadhnchmn <sub style="color:green;">( Dungeon ) 05:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well if more people like the old one, it will be reverted. For the moment, this way, it saves a lot of space. Duhman0009 05:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * New with Amendment, we need to keep this list AND the List of Wii launch titles updated together. If updating one, we have to update the other. Someone needs to put flags on the Wii page. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 05:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We aren't doing flags, remember? Please, everyone, do not change them to flags as it will end up in text again, as there's no fair way to have NA and SA represented in one flag or two. Scepia 05:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No no, I mean flags, like comments that people can't see unless you're editing the page. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 06:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * New, but it should be removed once the Wii launches. Information can be prosified into a general "launch" or "release" section; standout titles can be mentioned (Twilight Princess, Excite Bike, Madden 07) along with the Wii Sports pack-in, and Ubisoft's strong support is notable as well. --Tristam 06:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I would have agreed to remove the old one after launch because it was huge and that this space could have been put to better use with new info. But this new one is petite, so no harm done by keeping it. Duhman0009 12:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * New I suppose, the old one was easier to fix and edit. The table is staying, even after the launch. TJ Spyke 06:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What was (or is) the main point of the main article List of Wii launch titles? There's no reason this list (30+ bullets are unwieldy no matter how you format it) can't be converted to prose. On a completely unrelated note, I don't believe this article has a single print source cited. Surely I'm not the only university student with access to LexisNexis or Academic Search Premier? If anyone else does, much of the same information that you take from unreliable websites can be found in published print sources. I'll edit if I have time, but I'm working on a "development" section for the Wii. --Tristam 14:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The sources are like IGN and GameSpot, I don't see the problem here which can be found by looking at the links at the bottom of the page. Duhman0009 14:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * New: This one takes up less than half as much space as the old one. The new one is also a bit confusing when editing, but it's not that much harder than the old. // Sasuk  e  -kun  27  12:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably due to the Region Abbreviations. Good news is that it probably won't require much editing since most titles are now confirm. It could also push away people that wish to edit just for the sake of it or without any proof. Duhman0009 13:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * New. A little more effort is needed to look through and figure out what your region's launch titles are, but it's more than worth it for the saved space. Sockatume 13:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm open to suggestions, but please keep in mind that we won't be adding country flags or add extra columns or we'll be back to square one. Duhman0009 14:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Old: The new table doesn't show that some games are still unconfirmed in some regions, plus makes it hard to tell what's in what region. I agree that it does take up a lot of space, but the new table doesn't convey the information that well.
 * Plus, most people wait at least a week after starting a discussion like this to change things on the article page, as it gives enough time for all people to give their opinion (not everybody visits wikipedia every day). I suggest you hold on changing things on the article page until a week has passed, so that everybody has a chance to see the debate and give their opinion, if they so wish. JQF 16:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's unconfirmed, we don't need to know about it. Wikipedia has policies against rumors and unconfirmed information anyway. The only reason unconfirmed was written was mostly to fill in the blanks. Now I was expecting 2 or 3 votes total when I looked this morning, but 7 votes for the New one pretty much says it all (so far, it's 7 Vs 1.) I would suggest reverting it back to the new one. As for the region subject, well it's the abbreviations or a truck load of country flags. Duhman0009 16:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying abbreviations is bad, but I think the way it's been done is too small and too tightly put together. It makes it hard to see, at a glace, all the games that came out in, say, North America at the same time. I think they should line up with one another, making it easier to tell what came out where. Also, just because you have a high level of support now, dosn't mean that's the way everybody fells. Remember I said that not everybody goes on wikipedia every day? Give them a chance to voice their opinion, instead of just assuming that's everybody who wants to voice their opinion. Plus, this isn't suppost to be "My side vs. Your side". This is to be a discourse to find a solution that everbody likes. You'll note that some people have said that the new version does save space, at the cost of easy editing and readability. I want to address these issues before jumping ahead. Let me propose an alternate version, and we'll see where things go from their. If people still want to go with your draft, fine. I just want something that everbody likes and is easy to use. JQF 17:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * My goal is not to have my version chosen, it's to save space by not having that huge one. I've played around a lot before coming to this new version and the tools Wiki offers are very limited. Also, adding columns will only get us back at square 1. Only other possible solution is to make 4 little ones (NA&SA, Japan, Europe, Australia) merged as one and hope it will be around the same size. Duhman0009 17:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think I would have a problem with that, although I'd have to see it before I could say for sure. Another thing I just noticed is that the new version only has a ref for North America. The multiple refs from the old table would have to be put on the new table, since the dates haven't come to pass yet, but that isn't that hard to fix. JQF 18:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't follow you on that, what do you mean? Duhman0009 18:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, take a look at this draft I just finished. It's still lacking the refferences, but it does cut back on the original size, and I think it is easier to read and understand. JQF 18:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's very good. I think we should let people vote on which one they prefer (without voting ourselves just to be fair). Duhman0009 18:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank You. And yes, let the people decide. A new voting section should probably be made to help clarify what is going on. JQF 18:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Reducing the size Launch title section 2nd attempt
OK, so the current extra large section takes 14 scroll clicks on a mouse wheel (1024X768). My first attempt required no scroll clicks (1024X768) and this new one requires 3 scroll clicks on a mouse wheel (1024X768). It's not has small as the first one, but it's still much smaller than the original/current one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Duhman0009/draft2

This draft pretty much separates the Regions and list all the titles for each one.

User JQF also made is own draft which is similar to my first one but separates the Region abbreviations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JQF/WiiLaunchDraft

So there you have it folks, now you can vote:

Current<BR> Duhman0009 Draft Model 2<BR> JQF Draft

Duhman0009 18:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Created second draft with break and refferences. JQF 20:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Your little numbers aren't working? Duhman0009 21:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? JQF 23:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Region(s)[1][2] I click on 1 or 2 and it doesn't do anything. Duhman0009 00:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I fixed it, he forgot to add at the bottom. TJ Spyke 00:17, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Votes

 * JQF Draft, it's pretty short, and conveys what titles are launching where incredibly faster than going Red Steel, then seeing yes, no, unknown, no, yes and looking up to find which region is which. My only complaint is the two columns are squished together, so it looks like things are all one line -- a thin vertical column down the middle maybe? Scepia 18:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, we don't have a JGF Draft :P
 * Comment: You mean something like this? JQF 19:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: I was thinking wider, but that helps. Scepia 19:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * JQF Draft because it's a lot more organized, to me. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 19:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * JQF DraftIt's smaller than the original, ond more organized than duhman's version.NiVoMi (i didn&#39;t do it!) 20:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * JQF Draft It's more compact and easier to read.Uturnaroun 01:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

JQF, your list is missing Super Fruit Fall, but then again, you copied my first list which was also missing the title in the first place :P Duhman0009 22:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Fixed JQF 23:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Man, how long do we have to wait? I would be nice to replace that space hogger we call Launch Title List at lease 1 week before the Wii is out. Duhman0009 18:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Give it at least the weekend. That should let the more active people get their chance to voice their opinion. JQF 02:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll change it to JQF draft tonight, it has resounding approval. Scepia 01:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * JQF More organized. &mdash; Jaxad  0127  17:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Removal It doesnt make sense to have launch titles in an article about a console (Cloud02 23:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC))
 * JQF It does make sense, and JQF's doesn't look that bad (although I don't mind the current one either). TJ Spyke 00:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this vote is over. Enact JQF already. — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 01:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Is this going to be a permanent part of the article? I would hope a permanent listing would look more like this.  Just64helpin 17:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo in the console's trademark.
"This means it will be the first Nintendo home console outside of Japan to not feature the company name prominently in the console's trademark." Did we forget about the Nintendo Entertainment System? Scepia 03:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks like you just disproved your own point. --Stratadrake 04:48, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Haha, thanks. I overlooked the not part. Scepia 05:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

another archive
Should we do another archive? The page stands at 114 KB. I'm imaging we'll get lots of new info and rumors to discuss, and an influx of questions with more interest in the console. It seems like now is a good time, so we can be ready for all the new stuff. Scepia 18:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Virtually all of it is current discussion (new posts within the past week), so archiving it and reducing page size would risk cutting a lot of that stuff off. Maybe give it another week and then we can call it the final "pre-launch" archive? --Stratadrake 20:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Namco Bandai to produce 30 games...
... apparently. I was going to add it into the article, but realised that since we don't know when these games will apparently be published, and nor can I read German, I'd need a better source. Can anyone confirm this with a more verifiable source? --Zooba 19:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it seems like that count includes Virtual Console games (based on Xevious being listed). TJ Spyke 19:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't that a seperate list? Note Also, check out the list of games we knew about already coming from Bandai-Namco. I don't think we can take the inclusion of Xevious automatically as a hint of Virtual Console games being included in the 30. --Zooba 20:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Virtual Console and Boxart Change
Under the Features section the "Virtual Console" section should be re-added. What happened to it? it's one of the more integral features of the console. And under the Hardware section, the updated box art should be added. The "Wii Sports Included" sitcker has been changed. --Andrex 17:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Launch titles
Why do poeple insist on having them all listed on the main article when the launch titles have an article of their own? It does nothing but clutter the main article with more or less irrelevant information to the Wii. (Cloud02 20:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC))
 * You could say the same thing about release dates. It's going to be shortened. Please vote in the discussion above about the launch titles table. Scepia 21:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

GameCube Games on Wii
This is pretty minor, but I was just curious if anyone knows for sure if GameCube software looks and runs exactly the same on Wii, with no improvements to framerate, draw distance etc. unlike Xbox 360 and the PS2. I'm planning on getting one sometime in December. Nintenboy01 13:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Since it is a "faster gamecube", I would ASSUME that the framerate may be faster, unless there is code in the game to restrict it. Other than that, not too sure. Sorry! — Shanesan  (contribs) (Talk) 16:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't believe anything changes, much like the DS when it runs GBA games, it runs exactly like a GBA. In the Wii's case it acts like a Gamecube. I'm pretty sure, but not 100% (it's just my guess), so if anyone can confirm this that'd be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metazug (talk • contribs)

Maddox's support: notable in any way?
Should this be included? Link: --Tristam 18:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Notable as Maddox is, I don't think it adds much to the Wii article that's not already stated. Sockatume 19:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Action Replay
Does anyone know if the Wii is compatible with the GameCube version of Action Replay's Region lock-surpassing features (with GameCube games, not Wii games, although I would like a Wii action replay to get some Japanese games for the Wii)? &mdash;<font face=Charcoal>&uarr;D a r  k  l  i  n  k  s  k  y  w  a  l  k  e  r| Talk_ &darr; 20:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I doubt it. I've been reading reports from sites that have a Wii and tried to use the Freeloader with the Wii, the games boot up but then freeze and a error message pops up. TJ Spyke 20:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

REMOVE THE LAUNCH TITLES LIST FOR GODS SAKE MAN!
It is stupid to repeat ourselves. we already have an article entitled "wii launch titles" and we then shouldnt put it on our page. it is already to long, so lets make it shorter. i suggest putting a link to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_launch_titles or "list of wii launch titles" this will clean up the article, as it needs to be done. i will remove the list in 24 hours, unless someone can convince me otherwise... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiencyclopedia.com (talk • contribs)
 * We don't have to convince you since it's already been agreed on. Removing it will just be reverted. That seperate page shouldn't have been created in the first place. TJ Spyke 21:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

This might be good to add
I am kind of lazy and don't want to think about where I should add this:http://www.gamepro.com/community/forums/index.cfm?action=messagelist&cat_id=25&topic_id=17360 DrSatan 00:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Um, there is nothing new there. He just talks about what he thinks. TJ Spyke 00:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And that's why I didn't add it. :)

Launch date and lock
Because the article is locked nobody can edit the page when the Wii is launched! Let's unlock it for the 19th ONLY (Beez1717 21:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC))
 * The article isn't locked, it's only semi-protected. That just means that anon IP's and accounts less than 3 days old can't edit it. Everyone else can still edit the article. TJ Spyke 21:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Parental Control
Can someone please add 'OFLC' to 'PEGI CERO ESRB...' OFLC is the Australian (and New Zealand)rating body. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.193.223.194 (talk • contribs)
 * Do you have a source for OFLC being included? TJ Spyke 23:38, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Nice work
That was a very informational article. Thanks for not making an article just to make one. 24.33.228.32 00:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)Masterpyro

Stupid vandals
Could someone who still has editing privalages (like a mod) get rid of the vandalism some retard put on the top of the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.184.178.235 (talk • contribs)
 * righto, it was taken care of, i wish people could show a higher maturity level that that, all of the videogame systems are good to me (but im a hardcore gamer so ill buy them all anyways) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.184.178.235 (talk • contribs)