Talk:Wilbur Soot/Archive 1

Arguments for notability
As stated at WP:MUSICBIO: "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart." Gold clearly meets this criterion with "Your New Boyfriend", which peaked at number 65 on the UK Singles Chart, which is very much a national music chart. There also exist multiple other sources that can be used to flesh out the article, which means there is a good chance he is notable. IanTEB (talk) 10:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Add another YTer in the "Associated acts" section of the infobox.
There's just one guy still missing in the infobox's "associated acts" section and that's the YouTuber "Tommyinnit". As you can see from Wilbur's videos he does a lot of videos featuring Tommyinnit and they also have a good relationship as friends (just check out some of Tommy's "storytime videos"). Tommy is also close to 8 million subscribers so I feel you should add him to the associated acts section. Ilikefeeshlol1234321 (talk) 22:32, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:14, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Wilbursootforpage.jpg

Lovejoy and Are You Alright?
with the news that "One Day" and "Taunt" |have charted on the UK singles chart at #60 and #94 respectively, does the EP/the band itself warrant a split from this article into its own? Bobbysirchism (talk) 05:11, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2021
Lovejoy announced a second EP to come soon (https://twitter.com/LVJYonline/status/1407389558640103424), so "Lovejoy is expected to release an album later in 2021." in their History section should be edited to say "Lovejoy is expected to release a second EP and a debut album later in 2021." 2603:8081:6140:B7B:9458:47E:F1B5:D0F8 (talk) 20:55, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Made an edit to the article mentioning that work on the EP has started, removing the hint that it will be released in 2021 (no indication of this in the Tweet). I have also removed the claim that a full album is coming in 2021, as there is no source to that claim. Living Concrete (talk) 21:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Soft Boy
Soft Boy redirects here but isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. As such, the redirect at present probably does more harm than good. Should a mention be added or should the redirect go to RfD? Pinging IanTEB, who created the redirect, and Ss112, who removed the mention from the article. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 14:55, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

"Soft Boy" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Soft Boy. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 31 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 21:05, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2021
Change twitch follower ranking from 41 to 37. Clemmyrose (talk) 09:10, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:52, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2021
Wilbur Soots real full name is William Gold and not Will Gold. As a prove I have his tweet where he calls himself William. This tweet is from 11.08.2018 When he says : "When she asked me why they call me Wilbur instead of William I tell her it's got as much to do with personal as it does with professional reasons". 77.87.217.76 (talk) 22:10, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please provide a link/URL to the tweet. We would also want an independent source that refers to them as William as well. –– 𝗙𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗗𝘂𝗱𝗲  talk  23:36, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

- The official UK company database lists Wilbur Soot as 'William Patrick GOLD' - showing his name is legally Willam. Dan pixelflow (talk) 20:10, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Subject seems to be known under a different name than his legal name. Unless you can provide something more than a primary source to confirm the full first and middle names (the legal name is already partly included as "Will Gold"), I see no change required. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:18, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 September 2021
Age: 25 2A02:C7E:1EC1:F400:CCF5:69D0:DC77:3BD6 (talk) 19:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Criticism section
The criticism section seems unnecessary, providing little information of value and being entirely opinion-based. Not to mention the claims are also uncited. I think it would be best to remove this section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.44.164.202 (talk) 01:21, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Music updates
Wilbur started a band called Lovejoy and they just released their debut EP,Are You Alright?. Also, Wilbur announced that he had shelved his upcoming single "Soft Boy" in a recent stream — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8081:6140:b7b:717d:3e99:409b:2f43 (talk) 13:39, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

"Saline Solution" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Saline Solution. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 18 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. –– FormalDude  talk 02:03, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

"Saline Solution redirects here" why?
I couldn't see anything in his discography mentioning anything related to the phrase "Saline Solution" yet apparently that's a redirect for that section? 202.65.93.217 (talk) 01:59, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Weird, I can't find that "Saline Solution" has ever been listed in the discography or anywhere in this article. It looks like the redirect tophat was added to the article by and the redirect itself was made by . It does look like there is a song by Soot titled "Saline Solution", though I'm having trouble finding reliable sources for it. It probably doesn't deserve a redirect to this article, so I've started a discussion at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 18. –– FormalDude  Emojione 1F427.svg talk 02:07, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It would appear "Saline Solution" is a song off of Soot's album Your City Gave Me Asthma. It doesn't appear that is was a single, nor that it has gained any notability beyond that of the album, so it makes sense that the article doesn't mention it. –– FormalDude Emojione 1F427.svg talk 02:29, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2021
I would like to change the subscriber count to 6.1 million as that's what he is at now Socialphobia06 (talk) 06:51, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Saucy[talk – contribs] 07:50, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Include YouTube channel "Hey and Stuff" under channels and in combined subcount
In addition to the channels listed in the infobox, Wilbur has a podcast channel known as Hey and Stuff. I don't believe he's ever mentioned the channel on any of his other channels, so I'm not sure if it should be counted, but it is his channel nevertheless. I would like to hear what others think.

SkiSneath (talk) 11:32, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Full birth name - update required
The article is semi-protected and I am unable to edit; can someone please update his full birthname (Wilbur Patrick Gold), as seen here on Gov.uk where he is listed as director of WilburSoot Limited - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/wYJPbb9D5pgISf5rFOIfyNIr5xY/appointments — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.42.207 (talk) 13:43, 26 December 2021 (UTC)


 * it's actually William not Wilbur. You can see this in one stream as he said :"call me by my real name,Techno" and Technoblade responded "ok,William" 88.68.127.30 (talk) 19:17, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

"Lovejoy (Band)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Lovejoy (Band) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 3 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 02:53, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

"William Patrick Gold" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect William Patrick Gold and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 14 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 19:24, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Birthday - Update Required
As of 18 March 2022 the birthday listed for Wilbur is 14 September. He openly admits that this is incorrect and a lie that he told to the website Famous Birthdays. Wilbur provides the reason that he does not share his actual birthday with people because he does not like it. He also explains his "graph" where he had been rating every day of his life for the past four years. . It was revealed that 14 September was not his actual birthday during the same stream only a few moments before. While speaking on stream with another creator, Scott Smajor or DangThatsALongName, who had brought this up while talking about how Wilbur hardly responds to any messages and says that he had tried to wish Wil a happy birthday, but got no reaction. Wilbur responded by saying that Scott must have his Famous Birthdays birthday and that he had lied so Famous Birthday's would not have his actual birthday and that it is now on his Wikipedia article. His correct birthday has not been revealed, but the one listed is still incorrect. Theonlyfin (talk) 12:13, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Spouse needs updated to ace race
In a recent live stream on his twitch channel wilbur proposed to ace race infront of 40k viewers and his mcc team mates therefore it needs updated Abcdefg5667788 (talk) 22:22, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2022
The song «Your new boyfriend» was released in January 2020, not 2018. 77.222.163.16 (talk) 21:29, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. As far as I can see, our article currently states the song was released in 2020. Where in the article are you seeing that it says 2018? Cannolis (talk) 22:25, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit request
Hey guys so I noticed that on the chart "Other charted songs" under "As part of Lovejoy", the songs "Taunt" and "Cause for Concern" are in the incorrect places as the format of the chart seems to imply that the songs are meant to be in the order they're played in the album. With the correct order being "Taunt", "One Day", "Sex Sells", and then finally "Cause for Concern". Thanks in advance,

ConsistencyBur (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the standard order we used for such cases is alphabetic, so I moved things around a bit to make it so. --Muhandes (talk) 13:12, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Education
https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-gold-276a36180/#education

Says Will was educated at Ravensbourne University London — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.144.27 (talk) 21:28, 6 June 2022 (UTC) wilbur go music — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.75.77.125 (talk) 04:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2022
Wilbur’s birthday is not September 14th. He recently explained that he lied about that date, and hasn’t disclosed his actual birthday. 74.127.163.170 (talk) 06:24, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:50, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I removed some WP:BLPPRIMARY violations. Please do not use primary sources like trademark registrations, company registrations, birth certificates, other legal documents or really any primary sources except what Wilbur Soot had said about himself where it complies with WP:BLPSPS to source names, dates of births or really nearly anything. I have left the date of birth for now since it's perhaps given by the tweet although it's IMO not as clear as we need, and it also doesn't give a year of birth so we really need a better source. From the above comment by the IP, I wonder if there are clearer sources where Wilbur Soot has stated his date of birth. It sounds like possibly his age is well known so possibly the year can effectively be sourced easily if there is a date. Nil Einne (talk) 18:18, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Why is the personal life section so short?
This is an article about him and there's only a small paragraph about his life? I have been a fan for many years and I could write an entire essay about him under that segment lol. This is less of a change request per say and just more of a question. Also I've noticed that he has since said the thing about his birthday was a joke during a conversation with Scott Smajor (a fellow content creator) and he hasn't disclosed his actual birthday. 😅 130.45.84.137 (talk) 03:57, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2022
Wilbur soot had another channel called mincraft and doughnuts when he was 15. Starrybees13 (talk) 03:08, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. &#128156; melecie   talk  - 05:24, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Lovejoy: separate article?
The band which Wilbur co-founded, Lovejoy, should probably have its own article. They have released around 15 songs which in my opinion qualifies for a creation of a separate article. There is also more detail given by Wilbur as to the band's creation, their process and more that could be included. 82.12.44.222 (talk) 08:41, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Releasing 15 songs isn't mentioned in WP:MUSIC notability criteria. The band would need to have notability distinct from Soot; i.e., depth-of-coverage in reliable sources about the band. OhNo itsJamie Talk 14:20, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, whoops! I was looking for that page but I couldn't find it. However, according to the criteria linked, Lovejoy should meet criterion #2, having been on the national charts in 10 separate countries for the album Pebble Brain. They could also meet criterion #10 as part of Crywank's compilation "Here You Go, You Do It: A Crywank Covers Compilation". Hanatic (talk) 17:41, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Hanatic Not trying to self promote lol but I started a Draft article for Lovejoy. I've added a lot to it, but feel free to have a look and improve it! Strugglehouse (talk) 17:46, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Height in the infobox is WP:INDISCRIMINATE
, "why does the infobox have X parameter" does not mean said parameter has been vetted by the community. What has been vetted by the community, however, is WP:INDISCRIMINATE.

Wilbur Soot is not an athlete, or a supermodel. Please explain how adding the height of a person whose profession requires sitting on a chair benefits the encyclopedia. Pilaz (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Also pinging . Pilaz (talk) 00:16, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that height should only be included if it is an important aspect of a person's life or career. This is reflected in the documentation of Infobox person which states the parameter should be used "If person was notable for their height, or if height is relevant". I don't think this is the case for Gold. I also think the inclusion of combined channel stats is a little bit confusing now given that secondary channels are no longer linked. Alduin2000 (talk) 13:23, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Alduin2000 I don't really mind about having the height. I just added it because I knew it was a parameter and I found a reference for it. We can remove it if it isn't relevant, which I agree it probably isn't.
 * I don't think we should remove the the combined channel stats, because it doesn't really clutter the article or Infobox at all. Having lots of links does, but having one extra line does not. The stats are still relevent to the YouTuber, even if the secondary channels themselves aren't notable. Strugglehouse (talk) 17:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pilaz I just added it because I knew it was a parameter and I found a reference for it. After reading what you and @Alduin2000 have said, I agree it probably isn't relevent to have it on there. We can remove it. Strugglehouse (talk) 17:31, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, I'll remove height from the infobox then. I'm agnostic regarding the statistics, although I think that they perhaps should be presented in aggregate. Maybe Views | xx (main channel), yy (secondary channels)? Pilaz (talk) 23:56, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pilaz I think how it is now (such as on this article) is fine (i.e.
 * views = xx (main channel), yy (combined); then similar for subscribers) Strugglehouse (talk) 19:46, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That note may not show up properly here.
 * Should be
 * Views, broken down by channel
 * xx million (Channel 1)
 * xx million (Channel 2)
 * xx thousand (Channel 3)  Strugglehouse (talk) 19:47, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022
Change William Patrick Spencer Gold to Will Patrick Spencer Gold Lucias288288 (talk) 08:16, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Symbol declined.svg Declined - no reason specified for why the edit request is to be fulfilled. MadGuy7023 (talk) 08:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Legal Name
EDIT 2: I chose to WP:BOLDly add it.

EDIT: I've added a lot of comments below of various things I found, but the gist is that in this Twitch clip Gold says his full name is "William Patrick Spenser Gold". Should we add it?

ORIGINAL COMMENT(s):

I'm aware that Gold has stated before his legal name is Will, but, according to the Companies House website (the official company register for the United Kingdom), his legal name is William Patrick Gold. (See https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/wYJPbb9D5pgISf5rFOIfyNIr5xY/appointments). It seems extremely unlikely for an official government website to be incorrect.

Gold has also mentioned that he prefers to go by William anyway (see https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialCalmClipsmomVoteYea-zHMK-wwNfGaBi22O).

I think we should probably use his full legal name according to Companies House, but this may be a WP:BLPPRIVACY issue. If it is, and another reliable source cannot be found for this name, then I think we should still list William, as this is the name he has said he prefers to go by anyway. We can list that as his name, then list "Will Gold" under "Birth name" in the infobox.

Thoughts? Strugglehouse (talk) 16:11, 5 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I have also just come across a clip from one of his Twitch streams of him stating his name is William Patrick Spencer Gold (see https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1308860432912842752/pu/vid/1280x720/9z6_Y8dZ3ujIJRfw.mp4). This could be used as a reference, and would not be against WP:PRIVACY, due to those guidelines saying "Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public.". This clip fits into that guideline due it being a direct clip from one of Gold's streams, where he addresses the viewers directly and states this. Strugglehouse (talk) 16:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The full VOD is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoyKyB3wYhg (at 1:52:07) Strugglehouse (talk) 17:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * You can also see it on the Internet Archive here, and an actual Twitch clip here. Strugglehouse (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * His full name should not be included. I have already put in his legal name as it is on Companies House, but undid the revision as it is in violation of privacy on Wikipedia, which only requires middle names, etc. for disambiguation between names of similar people, which is not necessary here. I recommend you undo your revisions. Plus, the full name (i.e. inclusion of Spencer) is wrong as per the legal documents on Companies House, which must have your full, unchanged legal name including all middle names. EddieColdrick (talk) 11:52, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @EddieColdrick If we have his full name, we might as well include it. Linking to company files is very different from linking to an actual clip from his steam. Him stating his name proves he doesn't mind it being published, company documents MUST be published. They're different. Also, Companies House doesn't necessarily have full names. Take Declan Donnelly (full name Declan Joseph Oliver Donnelly, listed on Companies House as "Declan Joseph DONNELLY") or Christian Horner (full name Christian Edward Johnston Horner, listed on Companies House as "Christian HORNER"). Strugglehouse (talk) 12:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , there is no policy or guideline that states that company documents MUST be published. If anything, this is a conflict between what the subject of the article says (WP:ABOUTSELF) and what an authoritative primary source says (WP:BLPPRIMARY concerns aside). Also, you sidestepped the "Spencer" issue. Pilaz (talk) 14:23, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pilaz I'm not sure what you mean. I mean that company documents must be published and publicly available on the Companies House website. I was saying I agree this goes against WP:BLPPRIVACY. The current source passes WP:ABOUTSELF. It is not an exceptional claim. Strugglehouse (talk) 14:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , regarding the Companies House document, I misinterpreted your statement: I thought you were saying that we were obligated to use it in the article, and I argued that we didn't have to. Putting that aside, I don't understand why you reverted this version without an edit summary. It has this clip where Wilbur Soot says "my birth certificate says Will", and "but my real name is technically Will". Pilaz (talk) 16:14, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pilaz Okay, thanks for clarifying. The clip that I placed in the article includes him stating that his full name is "William Patrick Spencer Gold". Really, there's no way to tell in which clips he is telling the truth. However, they could both be truthful. Will could be how he was born, but, according to Companies House, he's William. This COULD be wrong, but I'd say his name is most likely at least "William Patrick Gold", but he could have more names not listed on there. Not sure Wikipedia's guidelines on this, but perhaps we could somehow contact him to ask what his name is to fix this dispute. I personally think his legal name is at least "William Patrick Gold", and he most likely has one or two more middle names. We would list different names for his name and birth name. He has also said he prefers the name "William", and, in my opinion, preferred names should favour birth names, or even legal names. As I said, we can have different names listed for his actual name, and his birth name. Strugglehouse (talk) 16:27, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , instead of trying to find the truth from the source and publishing original research (WP:NOR), we should try to find a way to be inclusive of both sources. WP:BALANCE is what matters here. Maybe an explanatory note? Pilaz (talk) 18:15, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pilaz Okay, that sounds like a good idea. What do you suggest the note say? Strugglehouse (talk) 18:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , I found the relevant guideline which is MOS:CHANGEDNAME. What about William Patrick Spencer Gold (born Will Patrick Spencer Gold, 14 September 1996) ? Pilaz (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pilaz That seems appropriate. Strugglehouse (talk) 21:54, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Just to add he has also said on a nihachu stream that he had three middle names and another time that he is a pathological liar on YouTube so I would take the two middle names with a pinch of salt. Won't edit anything about his middle names but just throwing that it. Vlkettoandrye (talk) 00:02, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Update Lovejoy section
Although this year has been pretty quiet for Lovejoy, they recently hit the live scene in the UK, first performing under aliases, but now they're touring around the UK and have sold out a small US tour. They've also started a merch line and pressed their first two EPs onto a vinyl release. They've also begun recording new material and teasing a new release that will come out in early 2023 according to their Spotify bio. It's also worth noting that they are not a signed act yet. 2603:8081:6100:BE9:A186:3D6:4FF5:5FC9 (talk) 03:38, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @2603:8081:6100:BE9:A186:3D6:4FF5:5FC9 This is some good information but please provide some reliable sources to prove this info. Strugglehouse (talk) 18:01, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Split Discussion - Lovejoy
Should Lovejoy be split into its own article? There's already a draft article with quite a bit of information on.

Per the notability guidelines for bands, I believe the band is notable, as it has received coverage in the news for it's singes, EPs, concerts, and tours, and has had singles and EPs on many national music charts.

Lovejoy's second EP, Pebble Brain, already has its own article, so it's about time the band had one.

Opinions? Strugglehouse (talk) 16:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Adding to this - Lovejoy was also featured on Crywank's compilation album, "Here You Go, You Do It". The album itself doesn't have an article, but Crywank does. Not sure if this means anything if the album doesn't have an article, bit I thought I'd add it as it's mentioned on the notability guidelines. Strugglehouse (talk) 20:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Invited WP:YTP and WT:MUSICIAN to the discussion. AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:12, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

I certainly think the article should be split. Lovejoy as a band does seem to be notable enough for its own article, and there is a lot of information about it that would be excessive in the Wilbur Soot article, but would be good for bettering the amount of information about the band if it had its own article. Blubewwy (talk) 13:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * With the amount of fancruft still present on the Draft:Lovejoy (band) article even after my edits removing the unsourced (the concert infoboxes)/poorly sourced information (to setlist.fm, listed at WP:ALBUMAVOID), I don't support it being split off as-is. Also, I did not understand why the columns in the discography wikitables were seemingly arbitrarily re-ordered when copied from Soot's article when the standard is to alphabetise the columns after the group's home country. It was fine as it was. We also typically abbreviate with country initialisms so as not to make the columns ridiculously wide (if one desires, we can use Template:Abbr to tell readers what the initialisms stand for) and that was disregarded too, so I've tried to standardise the tables, section order and remove most of the fancruft. Using university student newspapers as sources (they are not journalists) and social media is never good if you're trying to get an article through AfC either. I haven't gone through the sources in the history section but from a glance they don't look great from what I just mentioned. The entire "Concerts" section should really be removed if you hope to get it through AfC/split off.  Ss  112   14:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Ss112 I understand this, but you seem to have removed/changed everything you are talking about. What else do you think needs changing? Strugglehouse (talk) 16:21, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't remove the entirety of the concerts section, which I do not believe is encyclopedic. It doesn't matter how many gigs a band has played, how new they are or whatever other factor is at play for retaining it here, you cannot hope to catalogue all of their shows on their main article. It's considered fancruft. Secondly, I also didn't remove the dubious sources in their career/history section. As I said, we shouldn't really be citing college students for...anything. If there aren't better sources out there, then maybe Lovejoy shouldn't have their own article yet.  Ss  112   12:01, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Ss112 Okay. I've removed the Concerts section. Strugglehouse (talk) 16:29, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Ss112 I have also removed the citation containing a student newspaper article from The Daily Princetonian. Strugglehouse (talk) 23:24, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * , do you have any further concerns about the draft version? Is it in okay shape to split now that the discography and concerts stuff is cleaned out? AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 16:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with this being moved now. The fancruft and college newspaper sources appear to have been expunged. That being said, I don't know what's going to happen with the substantive page history of Lovejoy (band) and it doesn't sit right with me that that would be moved into the draft space in place of the draft as I expect it will.  Ss  112   11:22, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it'll be worth manually copying the draft so it preserves the history of the redirect. AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:36, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support - I believe the band is now notable enough that there are multiple reliable sources to write a full article on. Especially with the fact that they're releasing Call Me What You Like in a few days.
 * Natalius (talk) 02:36, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note that the current draft article still needs work and is not ready to stand as it's own article, I suggest either creating a new article altogether or we wait until the draft article is ready. Natalius (talk) 02:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Adding to this:

There are many reliable sources which can be found for Lovejoy. See here and here.

They have been featured on many national music charts.

They have performed at many notable festivals as part of their tours.

They have released a single on AWAL (presumably their new EP which includes this single will also be released under this label when it comes out).

The band contains Wilbur Soot, an already notable musician.

They have been part of a Crywank compilation album.

They have been featured on multiple radio stations.

They also an album, and a single, with an article. Strugglehouse (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support The draft still needs work but it's not that hard to remove the problematic parts (like the list of concerts) and get a reasonable stub. One advantage is that the article for the band would be a good target to redirect Call Me What You Like (Lovejoy song) which is not currently notable enough for its own article. Pichpich (talk) 00:01, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I've rejected the Draft so that it can't be resubmitted while this discussion is still open and ongoing. Once it's close anyone is free to ignore the rejection and resubmit the article as the rejection is not based on the article content but purely because drafts should not be accepted while there is still an open discussion regarding a split. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:31, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

"Single" status of his YouTube only songs
Some of Wilbur's songs, "The 'Nice Guy' Ballad", "I Am Very Smart", and "Karen, Please" originated from YouTube. They have been uploaded by fans without permission to streaming services, but they are not official singles, just YouTube videos. Wilbur's official debut single to be released on streaming was "I'm In Love With An E-Girl". Should these YouTube songs be removed from the discography section? 136.51.56.140 (talk) 22:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Choice of people under "associated acts"
Why is Philza not included under associated acts? Yupokaysuremhm (talk) 07:22, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Yupokaysuremhm Associated acts must have their own articles. Strugglehouse (talk) 10:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)