Talk:Wild Bill Hickman

Untitled
where is ANY evidence or factual support of the one line claim he was a serial killer? Notsleeping 17:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Hickman the Serial Killer
The statement currently is that "he was a reputed serial killer" (my emphasis). The link supposed to confirm that doesn't call him any such thing. Further, it describes only two killings for which Hickman was responsible, one "the execution of an enemy spy" during wartime, the second the killing of a man who threatened Hickman's family, for which the charges against Hickman were thrown out. That is NOT a serial killer. To quote from the Wikipedia article on serial killers: ''Serial killers are people who kill on at least five separate occasions (according to the FBI handbook), taking breaks between murders. The crimes committed are a result of a compulsion that may have roots in the killer's (often dysfunctional) youth and psychopathological disorders, as opposed to those who are motivated by financial gain (e.g., contract killers) or ideological/political motivations (e.g., terrorism, democide).''


 * Maybe we should say that he is a "self-described" serial killer, since he definitely confessed to more than five murders in his book. Although, I still have a problem with the term "serial killer," even though that would accurately describe his actions. I don't believe his motives were the same as a criminal. Hickman, imo, was caught up in a certain type of religious uber-zeal, which caused him to believe that the things he did was right.KevinM 08:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Excommunication and rebaptism
(Moved from the article page) On 14 August 2007, Wikipedia user Gillebre edited this page to include the following: Hickman was rumored to have been involved with the Mountain Meadows massacre, and was consequently excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It should be noted that after his death, it was proven that he was in no way related to the incident, and was thereafter reinstated with his covenants as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

It's always healthy to be skeptical of a rumor without a citation, and that's especially true in this case. Whatever Gillebre's source for this rumor, it's not Hope Hilton's biography of Hickman. Hilton describes Hickman's excommunication, but makes no mention of Mountain Meadows in connection with it, rumored or otherwise. In fact, she suggests that no reason was ever given:

Without a bishop's court, trial, or stated complaint, [Hickman] was denied his church membership on 12 June 1868[....] Hickman had at least four interviews with Brigham Young after his return to Salt Lake City. The first two concerned his excommunication. Hickman wanted to find the reason for the action; Young offered to send a letter of recommendation to Bishop Gardner that Hickman be rebaptized. The last two interviews concerned business. No doubt Hickman was trying to get work with Young's railroad contract. But both men were irreconcilably hardened towards each other. Hickman needed money and work. Young wanted confession and contrition. Neither man would take an openly hostile stance toward the other, nor would either capitulate. On 15 August 1868, Hickman wrote for the last time to Young. Hickman's entire letter read:

Dear Brigham, I feel bad to have so many false charges brought against me, I feel bad when I think you do not feel well towards me. What am I to do when I do not know of wrong I have done, how or of what can I repent I wish you would point out a coarse [sic] and have it under your immediate notice for me to take, not under Gardner I asked you once to release me from his jurisdiction and understood you had. I hope you will remember me and do me justice. I ask nothing more. Wm. A. Hickman I know I was always your friend at home or aboard [sic] and true in every sense of the word. I do hope you'll be kind to me&mdash;how bad I feel you do not know.

No answer was received. Hickman claimed that he saw Young several times thereafter and that Young would always ask, "When are you going to be baptized again and join the church?" Hickman wanted an apology and reinstatement without baptism.

Hilton's only mention of the Mountain Meadows Massacre in connection with Hickman was this:

Hickman appears to have faded from sight after his prison release. In the summer of 1875, he was briefly in the limelight when he was asked by Governor George B. Emery to be one of the guards to escort John D. Lee of Mountain Meadows massacre fame from Beaver City to Salt Lake. Lee was executed by firing squad at Mountain Meadows on 23 March 1877.

The massacre took place in 1857. If Hickman had been under any suspicion of involvement when he was excommunicated in 1868, it seems unlikely he would have been chosen by the Governor to act as Lee's guard and escort in 1875.

Hilton also describes Hickman's posthumous baptism, but does so again with no mention of any alleged involvement in Mountain Meadows, and without any indication that he had been cleared of wrongdoing. She writes:

Forty-nine years after Bill Hickman died, his nephew Josiah Edwin Hickman, a professor of history at Utah State University, approached the First Presidency of the Mormon church and asked that Bill Hickman be reinstated into the church posthumously. He recorded his meeting with church leaders in his journal:

March 22, 1934&mdash;I went to Salt Lake again yesterday concerning my uncle William A. Hickman who was excommunicated from the Church about 1868-9 &hellip; I saw President [Heber J.] Grant to get his sanction to reinstate my uncle. President Grant, A[nthony]. W. Ivins [his counselor], and [Apostle] George F. Richards all freely gave me permission to do his work, feeling that he had for years done much good for the Church but had fallen away. I am authorized to have all former blessings bestowed on him.

William A. Hickman was rebaptized by proxy into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on 5 May 1934.

Whatever the reason for Hickman's excommunication, it's clear from Hilton's biography that the Mountain Meadows massacre was not a factor in any way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntsimp (talk • contribs) 22:51, 13 January 2009

Decapitation
In a recent edit, added the following: During a time when mormon settlers were beginning to spread throughout the west, knowledge of a Native American attack against a mormon civilization was being spread by a local chief. In response to this threat, Hickman and a few men rode in the darkness into the Native American settlement where the chief lived and decapitated him. In the morning when the tribe awoke Hickman sat on his horse with the chief's head skewered on a stick. Most think that due to this brash act the tribe never invaded the mormon settlement. Hickman was quoted as saying, "sometimes you need to be a wolf to protect the sheep." I quickly looked & couldn't a source for this tale, or the quote, so I brought this here to discuss. Granted that it's possible this statement is true, but this kind of thing should not be added into a biographical article without at least one solid, reliable source. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 15:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

More references needed
Currently all this article has for references is the 1988 Hope Avarell Hilton (generally evenhanded and well researched), and the 1904 John Hanson Beadle (which is completely polemic and by an avowed anti-Mormon). Can't we finds some additional sources? -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 17:26, 13 August 2013 (UTC)