Talk:Will & Grace/Archive 1

Untitled comments
I'm making this not a stub as I type, but I thought I'd point out, the actual title of the show is "Will & Grace" (IE: an ampersand and not the word "and" spelled out.) Someone should probably change this. - Anon


 * Done. You just click "Move this page" button. --Menchi (Talk)ü| â 08:41, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a screenshot -- I'm kind of new to this; Seinfeld for example has one with "fair use screenshot" on the photo details page. Could we get one for Will & Grace? --Junkyardprince 23:47, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ok, maybe I'm a bit dumb, but hey! what's a lush? Selphie 12:19, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Lush" is US slang for a drunkard - a person who often gets drunk (according to my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary). Chrysalis 18:16, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

thank you! Selphie 09:41, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I am going to change the word lush as it is a word not really known outside the US. Gfad1 21:40, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I changed the part about the beginning having Will fresh out of a long-term relationship that ended badly to Grace moving in with Will because of her relationship ending. I wouldn't have remembered this, but I've been watching the first season recorded on tapes lately. MardukZero 21:18, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Actually, both of those are true. Will had gotten out of a really involved relationship with Michael, and Grace left Danny at the altar. Mike H 08:39, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)


 * Ahh, right. I thought I recalled that, but I couldn't remember if Will and Michael had happened that soon before the series or not. MardukZero 20:25, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Karen Walker
Karen is the only character with her own page and i think it would probably be appropriate to merge it into this page with new or extended sections on the three other major characters. What does everyone else think? Gfad1 21:39, 2 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I say write pages on the other characters. Mike H 02:03, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

will has had sex with two women does that make him bi?
will has had sex with two women does that make him bi?


 * No! Almost all gay men go through a time in which they are not sure whether they are gay or straight. Plus Will only slept with at least one of them for final proof if he was gay or not. Gfad1 07:53, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

no need to shout.


 * No! is not shouting. NO! would be shouting. :) Mike H 16:13, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

:)

 * lol:

ok what about Jack's being sexualy attracted to a striper he thought was female?


 * They explained all that away with the revelation that the stripper was really a man, so that was why he was attracted. Mike H 18:27, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

But he didn't know that at the time of the attraction.


 * This whole discussion is absolutely ridiculous. Someone is only bi if they call themselves bi. Sexuality is defined by the persons own perceptions and beliefs. Neither Will or Jack, and to cut you off before you bring them up Karen, Grace or Rosario, calls themselves bi, which means that none of them are bi. They all define themselves as either straight or gay, so can we please stop this stupid conversation. Gfad1 19:51, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

In that case...

So Will wasn't gay till he decided he was gay?

Broadcasters (2)
In France, Will & Grace is now aired on Canal +.

Boy Meets World???
Why is boy meets world part of the thing about the other shows that Will and Grace opened the door to? Boy Meets Worls was not a gay-themed show. Jwink3101 00:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)]


 * Boy Meets Boy was the show. Not Boy Meets World.  tiZom(2¢)  18:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't catch that, thanks( Jwink3101 17:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC))

The fact that Boy Meets World had been running for like five seasons before this show aired shoulda tipped you off, pal.67.142.130.37 16:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Untitled Comment
I just love the way it woked out. I'm gonna miss this show:( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.56.174 (talk • contribs)
 * That said, can someone put info from the last episode, and how things all turned out into the plot description? tiZom(2¢)  07:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Broadcasters
In the Broadcasters section people keep adding UPN, FOX, and WB affiliates to the list. But that is syndication only. Not all of those affiliates have it, just in your area. Experience showed me this is vandalism! Unless further discussion occurs here. Matty-chan 16:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not vandalism. [Wikipedia] vandalism is defined as any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia.  Most people simply don't understand the difference.  I went ahead and added a comment in that section.  Hopefully, people will notice it while editing, and refer here.  tiZom(2¢)  20:13, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I see. I just went through something similar. Matty-chan 21:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism
Aww no criticism of the show at all? ive seen many jokes made about will and grace
 * I agee. There needs to be some criticism acknowledged. --Navstar 04:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe some mention should be made that Will and Grace's relationship, if it occurred in real life, would be considered by psychology to be an extreme co-dependant and self destructive one.


 * Indeed, the women seem to have serious personal issues. Jack is more annoying than absurd.  They all seem to behave very irrationally.  The comedy itself is very stereotypical and unfortunately a little too predictable.  IIRC, from what limited viewing of this show I could tolerate, both Karen and Grace are both ethically and morally lacking.  Jack... Jack is not a real person, he's a caricature of all supposed behaviors of homosexual males outside normal behavior.  Will is the only character from the show I could even remotely identify with.


 * I never understood exactly WHY it received the awards that it did, but in general I don't watch many sitcoms, so I lack knowledge of the competition. (Third Rock from the Sun, Scrubs, Seinfeld all seem to be mightily humorous in relation.   Ellen Degeneres, as an actor and from what few snippets I've seen of her sitcom, is a riot.


 * The show also strikes me as a little blackfaced, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who would feel this way. I've tried justifying my feelings here, but failed.  But I can't deny my feelings on this regard.  I am not homosexual, so I can't take offense precisely like a black man would take blackface, but when I see these shallow characters take part in this.... there's just something terribly wrong.


 * Speaking as an African-American and as a gay male I think the term blackface would be taking it to an extreme. The Only Character in the series who could possibly be described as such is Jack, who, on a number of occasions, has displayed some very non-stereotypical, very real emotions. As long as we are talking about the blackface syndrome in comedy, how do you explain Dave Chappelle or Carlos Mencia? Both comedians take stereotypes to a much further extreme than Will & Grace ever did.Bookkeeperoftheoccult 09:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Other comedic themes... I lack the language to describe. Maybe I can describe it as "People performing an idiotic series of actions and then having to deal with the consequences."  Most comedy can be described that way, but the way Will & Grace (the show) deals with it is in the realm of the totally unbelievable.  I find it absurd that I could even laugh at it. Root4(one) 16:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't find the reality of Will & Grace anymore "absurd" than FRIENDS or any other sit com really.Bookkeeperoftheoccult 09:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok it was suggested that some criticism should be introduced, instead we have people using big words for their big egos to attack a shw they didn't understand. The show was gay people simply laughing at themselves, a gay writer shgowing how homosexuals can poke fun at things that they relate too. It's just over the top comedy, nothing sinister. It was made to entertain nothing more, if you found it stupid ok! If you found it offensive, then you are simply gravitating towards certain aspects that are meant to be taken in a light hearted way

I think it's the lack of good sitcoms with gay characters out there that makes the gay community embrace this mediocre show. If there were more interesting gay characters on TV, especially in sitcoms, Will & Grace would not be funny anymore. --Anjingbuduk 15:51, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've generally called this the gay Amos and Andy. Lycurgus 11:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Well I don't intend to be mean, but thr kind of people who write in encyclopedias would never understand the type of comedy in this show. Anyway lets not have a bitch fest, stating your opinion about it is silly


 * Just to play fair- I found one article of Criticism on Will & GraceBookkeeperoftheoccult 10:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed the 'criticism' added by 68.77.10.118 recently, as it was the opposite of criticism. I reverted back to the original info added a bit more criticism that I located. --Pisceandreams 22:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Laila
In the finale episode where Grace is helping her daughter move into her dorm you can read on the boxes "Laila's Room". Im changing all occurances of Lila to Laila. Gfad1 20:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You must have missed half the article, because so far, I've counted the daughter's name as being Lila, Laila, and Lyla. Anyone know the 'actual' spelling of her name??? 216.39.200.103 06:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Gfad1 is correct. You can clearly see the name "Laila" written on the boxes Grace was carrying to her daughter's dorm room.


 * Well, I just checked this out on the series finale DVD and while one can read "Laila" on the boxes Grace is holding, (actually it's spelled "LaiLa"), the closing credits state that the character's name is "Lila". It's hard to know which is correct, but in this case I think it's safe to go with what's listed in the credits.  Pisceandreams 06:58, 02 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Okie dokie. Byxbee 12:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Lovespring International
I started the page on Lovespring International, the new series on Lifetime that has Eric McCormack (Will) as the executive producer and had Eric McCormack and Sean Hayes (Jack) as guest stars already. I don't know that much about the show, though, so I'd welcome some help! Every and any little bit counts! Emily ( Funtrivia Freak ) 21:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please!!! No one's edited the page yet! Somebody, please, help me with Lovespring International! Emily ( Funtrivia Freak ) 15:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Changed effeminate to eccentric
I disagreed with the description of Jack's character as being effeminate. The character is a gay man who is eccentric and attention-seeking. These attributes do not constitute effeminate, as hallmark traits of feminism are not necessarily those qualities (i.e., a woman is not defined by being eccentric and attention-seeking).


 * I reverted this...Jack is not at all eccentric. The label 'effeminate' may not be entirely accurate either. As a compromise I would suggest just removing both labels. Carl.bunderson 22:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Past tense or present tense
The narrative in this article seems to randomly shift between past tense and present tense. It's reminiscent of a junior-high conversation or a football talk show. It needs a major cleanup, as do countless other grammatically deficient Wikipedia articles. Free writers are worth every penny they're paid.

Well let us know when you've finished your major clear-up and we can all take a look. --Charlesknight 16:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Grammar's nice, but it isn't more important than content. So don't let it (rather the lack of it) get in the way of enjoying Wikipedia articles.