Talk:Willa Brown

CEs and tweaks
- I made a few copy edits and tweaks to the lead and first section, and then got sidetracked. Wanted to mention that while researching sources, I came across this letter from Willa Brown to Eleanor Roosevelt. Wow! Anyway, I don't want to overstep anything you're trying to accomplish, so I'll wait for you to weigh-in here. Happy editing! Atsme Talk 📧 13:53, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , wow, nice find! I've sent an email to the author of this profile to ask about what sources he used and to see if he has access to anything interesting offline (reeeeally hoping that he doesn't say "I summarized Wikipedia!"). I don't have any specific plans for what to work on, probably will spend some time tonight thinking about that, but if you see any areas you think could use some work I'm open to suggestions. creffett (talk) 17:56, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Turns out I can access most of the subscription-required sources through the local university library, so that's a plus. I'm going to dig into those a bit more and see what else there is to say. The next few things I'll tackle (probably tomorrow):
 * What exactly did she do in Chicago before starting in aviation? Blackpast briefly says that she was a social worker (or at least that she was there "to be" one), but Gubert et al. says that she held various secretarial jobs. Not mutually exclusive, of course.
 * Need to clarify the timing of her licenses. Blackpast says she got her commercial license in 37, but Gubert et al. says private pilot's license in 38 and a commercial license in 39.
 * Should consolidate the ANB source with Gubert et al., since the former is a cut-down version of the latter.
 * Dig up more information on her political runs - it's interesting if true, but Gubert et al. specifically mention that they couldn't find mention of it in Chicago newspapers. Blackpast names one of her opponents, so that's a starting point.
 * Potential additional source: "America's Black Air Pioneers, 1900-1939, since it's an Air Force dissertation it might have a different perspective. Will review.
 * creffett (talk) 00:03, 1 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Good to know! I haven't dug deep on the internet but I did find Kentucky Commission on Human Rights.  I'll try to dig a bit more tomorrow. Atsme  Talk 📧 00:09, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, this is a real mess. There are several different kinds of license in play. I can definitely say that she got her private pilot's license in summer 1938, and she was very likely the first (I've found a Pittsburgh Courier article from then which describes her as "understood to be the first colored aviatrix to receive this license"). She may have gotten a lower-grade license (perhaps a non-solo license?) in 1937, but it's unclear whether she is the first - different sources give different answers. She also earned a commercial pilot's license, probably in 1939, and I think she was the first to get that. There's enough here to say that Blackpast is incorrect (it dates her commercial license to 1937, but you can't have a commercial before a private, and we have a contemporary newspaper dating the private to 1938). I feel confident saying in wikivoice that she was the first African-American woman to earn a US private pilot's license, and fairly confident that she was the first to earn a US commercial pilot's license, but any thoughts on how to handle the more questionable case? creffett (talk) 23:39, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * My first thoughts are that this information would be reliable for the dates she acquired her licenses (but who knows how reliable government sources are, so we back it up with a couple more 2nd/3rd party RS). It appears the correct date for her pilot's license is 1937, but it's possible the license wasn't issued until 1938. The government source says it was the same year she earned her M.B.A. which was 1937. I found the following corroborating info which provides the cert#: In 1937, airman’s certificate No. 43814 made her the first African American womanto be licensed as a private pilot in the United States. and it's sourced here. I also found this book, and this one which is cited for other info in the article. Atsme  Talk 📧 00:26, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Next steps to GA
, I'm feeling pretty good about the state of the article from a content perspective - I think we've hit the high points of her life and everything is cited. The potential issues/inter-source disagreements that I know of: Like I said, though, generally happy with where things are, but I've been staring at the details for long enough that I can't really evaluate the article as a whole very well. What else do you think needs to get done to be suitable for a GA nom? creffett (talk) 00:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * What kind of pilot's license she was the first to get. Mentioned in an explanatory footnote.
 * Date her first marriage started - most sources say 1939, but one source specifically says that they couldn't find any evidence of that date and says 1947. Footnoted.
 * A handful of other years - there's inter-source variation on the date of her commissioning as a lieutenant and the year she joined the FAA's women's advisory committee. Probably a couple others in there that I'm not thinking of. Those were minor variations, no more than a year, so I just picked one for each and ran with it.
 * I left out a smaller part of her political career, she ran (unsuccessfully) for an alderman position in Chicago twice between her Congress runs; if you think that's worth adding I can get that in.
 * The precise wording of her run for Congress. Some sources say that she was the first African-American woman to run for Congress, but newspapers from the time (thank goodness for that database access!) clearly say that she ran in the Republican primary for Congress and was defeated both times.
 * My typical MO is to walk away, and come back to an article several hours or even a day later...I will do that repeatedly through the course of 2 or 3 days (and it may be that I'll see changes that need to be made a year later but that is simply a sidebar note to what we're doing now - our work is never complete when striving for perfection). Hopefully, you will do the same, and when that's done, we can get an extra set of eyes on it before you nominate it for GA and potentially for DYK. Atsme Talk 📧 00:23, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , sorry to bug you again, I have one last question that I'd like your opinion on - going to do some editing tonight to see if I can hit all of CaroleHenson's comments. Now that I've thought about it more, I really like that quote below (about her visiting the newsroom), but I'm wondering if adding it to the article would be excessive. What are your thoughts about adding it? I was thinking that if I do add it, I would add a couple more sentences about how she worked with the Chicago Defender. creffett (talk) 21:51, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK comment
It's nice to have someone new look at the article, but if no one responds in a couple of days, I will happily do the DYK review.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Tuskegee Airmen
That Willa Brown is responsible for the creation of the Tuskegee Airmen is an unwarranted claim and at best a vast exaggeration. If any single individual is "responsible" for the creation of the Tuskegee Airmen, it is Alfred "Chief" Anderson.173.62.25.244 (talk) 16:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC)