Talk:William A. Starrett/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Wasted Time R (talk · contribs) 23:53, 9 September 2020 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

A reasonable article as far as it goes, but needs clarification and expansion in places
 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * Chronological flow is jumbled in a couple of places, see below
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * A few additional aspects need to be covered, see below
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Pass/Fail:

I have some basic concerns here about what precisely it was that he did. The article says he was both a builder and an architect. He was definitely a builder, but was he really an architect? Most of the sources I'm seeing treat him as a builder. Being an architect usually requires a lot of specialized education and training, that it does not look like he had, since when he eventually got a college degree it was in civil engineering, not architecture. Yes, eventually he did work for Starrett & van Vleck, an architectural firm, but did he really do hands-on architecture work there or was he just some kind of executive? If he was an architect, what are some of the specific buildings he designed? What was his architectural style?
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Military barracks and cantonments. Architect for State of New Jersey public buildings. Four commercial buildings in Japan (ref #9 quote).--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:48, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

As a builder, what were the areas of responsibility that he most often was involved in? Did he make the master schedules, or negotiate with suppliers, or hire the workers, or lobby the city politicians, or ...? In other words, we know what these Starrett companies did, but what specifically did he do? That's what a biography article needs to delve into, and this one doesn't do it quite enough right now.
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ - see Works section. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:29, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

And what was the specific name of the steel construction technology that was passed to the Japanese? Is there a WP article on the technique that can be linked to? Did Starrett ever think of trying to patent it?
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:40, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

There is some confused chronological flow in the "Mid life and career" section. The latter portion of the first paragraph – Starrett also worked for Starrett & van Vleck in designing and constructing department store buildings in New York City. Ultimately he passed on this steel construction technology to Japan so they could design buildings to resist earthquakes. – looks like it really belongs at the end of the second paragraph.
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ - copy edited and left in first paragraph, as I believe it fits better there.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:23, 11 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I'm still confused by this one. Everything in the four paragraphs of the "Mid life and career" section is dated and in chronological order, except these sentences of the first paragraph: He immediately entered the construction field, joining his four brothers in companies which built skyscrapers.[6] Starrett also worked for Starrett & van Vleck in designing and constructing department store buildings in New York City. Key design elements used were skeleton steel framing and reinforced concrete.[7][8][9] Ultimately he passed on this steel construction technology to Japan so they could design buildings to resist earthquakes.[10][11][12] Starrett was an assistant architect engineer for three commercial buildings in the Marunouchi district of Toyko and for the Crescent Building in Kobe.[9]


 * When did each of these things happen? It looks to me like He immediately entered ... should go right before Starrett started his career ... of the second paragraph and Starrett also worked for Starrett & van Vleck in ... should get merged into In 1913 Starrett sold out his share of the company and joined his brother Goldwin at ... of the second paragraph.  But where should the rest of the first paragraph beginning with Key design elements used ... go?  I have no idea where in the time sequence these actions and events take place.  Wasted Time R (talk) 22:51, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Copy edited accordingly. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Can you take another look at this now. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Then in the WWI paragraph, the third sentence – Just before World War I he entered army training and qualified for the rank of Major in the Engineer Officers' Reserve Corps. – looks like it should be the first sentence.
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:31, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, the WWI material, Council of National Defense can be linked to. And it needs to be made clear what service he was part of – was it the United States Army Corps of Engineers?
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:29, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Regarding categories, it seems to me that there are number that could be added to the article, including Category:Empire State Building, Category:American civil engineers, Category:American civil engineering contractors, Category:American builders, Category:American real estate businesspeople, Category:Businesspeople from New York City.
 * --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:32, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I'll likely have some more comments later but these are some of the ones that came to me first. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:53, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * All issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:29, 11 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The article is definitely better now with most of the chronology sorted out and the additional material added. A few more comments here and there:
 * The Woolworth Building under construction image is great, but now the Empire State Building image looks small compared to the other two. I would suggest increasing its scaling to 0.85 or 0.9.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:28, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The text Starrett was the main motivator behind the real estate and building interests of the family.[10][40] They consisted of his grandfather, four brothers, and two brothers-in-law. He was a principal officer of several companies associated with building approximately 200 notable buildings and skyscrapers in cities throughout the United States.[41][42] The 1,250-foot (380 m) Empire State Building was built by a Starrett's company in one year from 1930 to 1931.[43] It was the tallest structure in the world at the time.[44][45][46] looks out of place. I think it should be merged into the appropriate places of the "Mid life and career" section.  For sure the building of the Empire State Building needs to be moved.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The "Personal life" section title might then be better as "Family and legacy", or something like that.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Chicago Tribune should be in italics and linked.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * down to earth language should be down-to-earth language.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The infobox says he died at age 54 but the article text says he was 55.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Couple more cats can be added: Category:United States Army Corps of Engineers personnel, Category:American army personnel of World War I
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Almost there ... Wasted Time R (talk) 23:14, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Additional issues have been addressed. Can you take another look at it again. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Okay, we are done, I have marked the article as passed and added it to the GA list, good job. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2020 (UTC)