Talk:William Dunbar

Request for citations
Hi, I have restored the request for a citation on survival of James. You say in your edit-description there is a reference to the Regent Albany in one of Dunbar's poems and I'm grateful for that, but please can you supply this in the article as a reference (which poem and what line(s) and why it works as a reference).

I have similarly added a request for citation that he was in the "post" of laureate. Again it may be my ignorance, but I am not aware that there was a "post" of laureate as such in James's court, or who the "official" holders were, if any. (Dunbar was not the only poet in the court.) Again I am not doubting, it is simply a request.

Please supply the citations rather than remove the requests. Would be grateful. Thank-you. Stitchill (talk) 15:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

PS. On a slightly different topic, I am no fan of the term "Scottish Chaucerian", but equally I am not sure saying Chaucer's influence was "in fact minimal" sounds quite right (especially in Henryson's case, since Henryson definitely responds directly to Chaucer - and the way the sentence is currently written it implies all three poets). I think there is probably a fairer way to put this. It might be helpful to limit the sentence purely to Dunbar's difference from Chaucer and say why. Stitchill (talk) 15:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

William Dunbar would write in ‘The Goldyn Targe’ (1508)ln 206:

O reverend Chaucere, rose of rethoris all, As in oure tong ane flour imperiall, That raise in Britane evir, quho redis rycht, Thou beris of makaris the tryumph riall; Thy fresch anamalit termes celicall This mater coud illumynit have full brycht: Was thou noucht of oure Inglisch all the lycht,

Despite it being a century after his death, Chaucer remained the number one best selling writer of the period. Thus all British writers/poets at this time were heavily influenced by him. Cassandra Cassandrathesceptic (talk) 17:34, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Subjectivity
"The praise, though it has been at times exaggerated, is on the whole just, certainly in respect of variety of work and mastery of form."

I am rather annoyed by the number of Wiki biographies that presume to pass judgement on the merit of so-and-so's work. Some, like Scott, clearly exalt Dunbar. Others may think he's rubbish. But may I suggest confining one's opinions on the literary merit of a poet('s works) to the pages of a thesis or an article in a journal rather than Wiki entries.

I am taking the liberty to delete that excerpt: if anyone disagrees, feel free to raise why. Gaylegoh (talk) 20:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Kynd Kittok
It is only on stylistic grounds that Kynd Kittock has been attributed to Dunbar.

Identification
The Douglas who died in 1522 is perhaps Gavin Douglas? --FinnWiki 01:38, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And "...Scott's eulogy...", perhaps this Scott is Walter Scott? --FinnWiki 09:17, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Bothwell's mission... Bothwell who? --FinnWiki 12:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved -- contested, undiscussed move reverted. JHunterJ (talk) 20:52, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

William Dunbar (poet) → William Dunbar – Thie person was the primay meaning, he was recently moved without discussion or explanation. This should be reverted, he is an important figure in Scottish literature. PatGallacher (talk) 09:38, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose, no clear primary topic. Marcus   Qwertyus   09:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Really? How do you justify this view?  The poet is a major figure, one of the greatest poets Scotland ever produced and a highly influential figure, the others all seem fairly obscure. PatGallacher (talk) 10:30, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak support Seems distinctly the most eminent William Dunbar to me; let's have the case that any of the others is even a quarter as likely to be wanted. From William Dunbar (disambiguation), the only ones that have a biographical article in ODNB/ANB are the railway magnate (already disambiguated as a baronet) and the explorer. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:13, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Regarding the section 'First printed obscenity'
I propose that this section needs deleted. While I agree that Dunbar's uninhibited language is one of his characteristic traits and adds real force to his comic poems, the subject is discussed well elsewhere, not least in the article on 'The flyting of Dunbar and Kennedy' . The 'First printed obscenity' section is unsatisfactory for any number of reasons. In no particular order:


 * -As Wikipedia points out, no references are provided.
 * -'Brash of Wowing'/'In secret place this hyndir nycht' was not printed until the modern era, having previously existed only in the Maitland and Bannatyne Manuscripts. The supposed date of 1503 is therefore bogus.
 * -The OED does refer to the poem as being the first known instance of 'fuck', but this seems irrelevant to our article.
 * -An entire paragraph dedicated to vulgar words, with no discussion of the context, seems just plain juvenile.

Please feel free to object.

Edits erroneously reverted as unsourced
@Mutt Lunker:

Ok. I am opening discussion here re my edits. He was a Roman Catholic priest as per the following subsection of the article (Religious and moral works)

 "Dunbar was an ordained priest of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland and several of his works have religious subject matter. Rorate Celi Desuper, Of the Passioun of Christ and Done is a Battell on the Dragon Blak deal with the Nativity, Passion and Resurrection respectively. Ane Ballat of Our Lady is a hymn in praise of the Blessed Virgin. The Table of Confession discusses sin and confession.' 

(Other edits just minor tweaks, removal of non-notable redlink, punctuation.)

107.122.161.41 (talk) 18:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I was addressing your warring and your lack of discussion at this talk page but since you're here now:
 * This deletion is unexplained. WP:RED may be of use.
 * "...Dunbar's, it is unlikely that.." seems fine to me; probably preferable. There may be merit, though, to your change from the editorialising passage to "including".
 * This and this are less clear or inferior stylings. ("a currency symbol should be accompanied by a numeric amount")
 * Not that you'll need to ping me on this talk page as I'm watching it but the spelling is "Mutt"; "Matt" won't get to me. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:08, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Apologies, @Mutt Lunker (not Matt; eyesight's not what it used to be) -- everything you have pointed out is fine. The article stays as is, then. What about the lede info regarding his being a priest? That should be restored, no?
 * Thanks for your insight but why are you accusing me of "warring"? 107.122.161.41 (talk) 22:04, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Edit warring is when an editor reinstates a disputed edit without seeking resolution of the dispute. If you haven't read WP:BRD, please do.
 * I've less issue with the note that he was a priest but for the lede, it's arguably superfluous as it's not what he's primarily known for. A note in the main body of the article is arguably sufficient. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:26, 12 January 2023 (UTC)