Talk:William Durbin/Archive02

(I realized my last post might be missed since it pretty much went straight to the archive, so I'll repost it here)

A search of the laws of the state of Kentucky show that it does not appear to be illegal under the Kentucky Revised Statutes to use the title "Doctor" if you don't have a degree, it says it is only illegal if you are claiming to be a medical doctor or otherwise in the health-care field. "Fraudulent" is a very loaded word, and strongly implies criminal intent, and there is no sign he is violating Kentucky law, or that he got his degree in bad-faith (why would he have any reason to believe the degree was not a legal, albeit unaccredited one when he got it)? Would you feel better if he got a legally recognized but also non-accredited degree from a diploma mill somewhere? Would a different piece of paper from a different place change everything?

After the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy scandal, keeping defamatory accusations out of biographies on Wikipedia has been a high priority. Strongly negative accusations in an article require ironclad documentation, which you most certainly don't have.

Really, start an article on Juko Kai and tell the whole story of Dr. Sacharnoski, the UOP, and ZKSBBR. Since after the recent changes over the Siegenthaler scandal, anonymous editors can't create new articles, if you want I'll create a basic stub of the article and you can document it with all the controversies over the UOP, Combat Ki, the lawsuits, ect.

You've also said that the Kiyojute Ryu site is not a reliable source because there is "controversy". The only "controversy" here is because a admittedly irate former member is refusing to believe anything they say. Durbin has a few critics, but virtually every prominent martial artist alive does, especially those that are not part of very large organizations like Kodokan or Aikikai. Sacharnoski is controversial because of all the lawsuits and the extremely dubious claims about "Combat Ki". Nimr Hassan/Terry Lee is controversial because of the murder conviction, Ashida Kim is controversial as an infamous hoaxster. If Kiyojute Ryu so controversial, where are the loads of critical websites and lawsuits one would expect of a controversial martial artist? A quick check of the net shows plenty of critical sites about Juko Kai, but critical statements about Kiyojute Ryu are virtually all in message board posts (which is specifically not an acceptable secondary source for wikipedia information by policy).

Also, you keep bludgeoning in the point that Kiyojute Ryu is recognized by ZKSBBR, and must therefore be bogus. Remember that it is recognized by other well known and respected martial artists and organizations. Would you feel better if the article mentioned every single entity to recognize Kiyojute Ryu? ZKSBBR was the first and it was originally founded at Sacharnoski's suggestion, but it is far from the only one to recognize it now.

As for being Vice President of the ZKSBBR, he doesn't claim that in the current edition of the student handbook, merely that he is a member. I can't find a quote on his web site where he says this either. I can find a passing reference on the web from 2001 at the latest that mentions this, but nothing within the last 4 years. He may well have stepped down, or he doesn't currently consider himself to hold the position while Sacharnoski still lists him as such, but it's a position he certainly doesn't boast about now (not even in the handbook, where he lists even the most minor of awards and positions he's recieved).

Earlier you said it was an extraordinary claim that he was allowed to teach at KSU. He does have a Bachelor's degree from Campbellsville University that is completely beyond reproach in terms of legitimacy, and it is quite possible to be a staff instructor at a university on merely a Bachelor's degree. His own faq says KSU accepted the UOP degree for purposes of determining pay raises, not for hiring and not for admissions. Note that he also says that as of 1979 he was teaching at Campbellsville, before he got any degrees from the UOP, are you going to dispute that too? --Wingsandsword 17:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)Wingsandsword 17:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Why would someone use the term "Doctor" if they don't have a degree? I'd really like to see this question answered. As I said before, I'm more than willing to change "fraud" to "scam" as "fraud" might suggest that it was ruled as such in a court of law. Regarding whether something is legal, I'd prefer to leave such in the hands of lawyers. The only thing I think we should reference on that issue is actual legal rulings. "Would you feel better if he got a legally recognized but also non-accredited degree from a diploma mill somewhere?" What is a legally recognized, but also non-accredited diploma mill? I need an operational definition of "diploma mill" which distinguishes it from the UOP (where a PhD could be bought for $100). "Strongly negative accusations in an article require ironclad documentation, which you most certainly don't have." The only things that are verified are 1.) that Durbin claims he earned a PhD 2.) he received this degree from a school that was found to be bestowing degrees illegally. "You've also said that the Kiyojute Ryu site is not a reliable source because there is "controversy". The only "controversy" here is because a admittedly irate former member is refusing to believe anything they say." That is all that is needed for a controversy. "virtually every prominent martial artist alive does" Durbin is not a prominent martial artist. He has a few schools in the midwest. He has not been on national tv repeatedly (as has Sacharnoski). He has published only a small fraction of the books that Ashido Kim has published. He is not ground zero for one of the most controversial events in modern Kempo history as is Nimr Hassan. The number of criticisms of him are in direct proportion to how prominent he is. "Also, you keep bludgeoning in the point that Kiyojute Ryu is recognized by ZKSBBR, and must therefore be bogus." Actually, what I've said is that it is recognized by a bogus organization. The way the article was written before I started working on it implies that it gains authority from its recognition from the ZKSBBR. I want to make it clear that that's not the case. If you know of some other verifiable means by which Kiyojute Ryu is recognized and gains authority within the martial arts community, feel free to put it in the article. "As for being Vice President of the ZKSBBR, he doesn't claim that in the current edition of the student handbook, merely that he is a member." Take that up with Jeff who first stated that. I didn't confirm that statement. I would have if it were put in the article, but so far it has not been. "Earlier you said it was an extraordinary claim that he was allowed to teach at KSU. " What is extraordinary is the claim that KSU recognized an illegally granted degree in any manner. -- To clarify, I have an organizational chart that displays the structure of ZKSBBR. Now it's an older document (Bill was married to Peggy Durbin at the time), but it clearly states that Bill is the Vice President of that branch. I will located it, and post a link to a copy. To my knowledge, his position was never listed in the student handbook, clear back through 1987.

If he still holds that title is up in the air. I would go as far as stating that the status of ZKSBBR is up in the air, but that's another discussion.

Questions about the validity of the UOP is a rather new arguement. (Last five to six years). Durbin obtained his way before that. Who knows what documentation KSU would have required prior to hiring. To my knowledge, the only classes he taught were martial arts, therefore the UOP certificate may have been enough. I would recommmend contacting KSU if you have further questions.

It isn't up to me to disprove extraordinary claims. It is up to the person making them to prove them. So, it really isn't up to me to disprove that KSU accepted a doctorate from a school proven to provide illegal doctorates. Its up to the person making that claim to prove it. - There's nothing to prove. He did get hired by KSU, and he did use his PHd to get hired. His employment with KSU has previously been verified. What else do you need? Keep in mind that at the time of his employment, no one had questioned the legitimacy of the UOP.

He's no longer employed by KSU, so is this even an issue?

Where is the evidence that KSU accepted his doctorate? It is an issue because, as written, it implies support for the claim that his doctorate is legitimate.

He was hired, and he did teach. The employment has been verified. What more do you need? You are grasping at straws. I would say that they seemed to think his PHD was good enough to be listed as an instructor at the University.

Where has any of that been verified? Making claims isn't the same as verifying them. Only verified statements should be in the article.

- I contacted KSU years ago concerning his employment. They did state the was an instructor there at one time, but could not comment on the acceptance of the UOP certificate as proof of his educational credentials..

That's personal research, isn't it? Which would make it unusable as a reference in the article. If you contact them again and get a letter from them which we could link to in the article, that would be a form of verification.

- "Fraud" and "scam" are both completely unacceptable terms to use in this article, as they are quite possibly libellous in the absence of some actual legal action against him in that regard. Saying he obtained this degree knowing it was not legally authorized is on it's own unverifyable, since he obtained his two decades before any question as to the legitimacy of the UOP, and quite a stretch to say that he knew that the UOP had no legal standing when he got his degree. He is quite up-front about talking about his credentials and training lineage, and a simple wikilink to Juko Kai in the article (and an article about it) and a mention that the UOP has had legal problems should suffice.

It is not an extraordinary claim that somebody with a Bachelor's Degree was hired as an instructor of martial arts at a college, and used credentials granted by a martial arts organization as qualifications to teach martial arts. It would certainly be an extraordinary claim if he used his UOP degree to become tenured faculty, or for admission to their graduate school, but using a certificate from a martial arts organization as qualification for a job teaching martial arts? That's a pretty mundane claim. He also discusses his time as a instructor of martial arts at Kentucky State University in the early 80's on page 49 of his book Koga Ryu Ninjutsu, and as a source that has been through an outside editorial review, it is suitable for citation by Wikipedia standards.

If the article implying that Kiyojute Ryu gains authority via Juko Kai is a problem, rephrasing it to say that it was founded at the suggestion of Sacharnoski and his ZKSBBR, but later gained recognition from multiple sources outside of Juko Kai is perfectly reasonable. Discussion over the credentials of ZKSBBR, Sacharnoski and Juko Kai really belong in their own article, as it does seem notable enough to warrant it's own article.

Also, could our anonymous critic, and Mr. Boler please sign your posts on the talk pages? It makes it much easier to follow discussions when all comments are attributed to a specific person. You can do that by putting "~" at the end or with the little "signature" button when you edit a talk page. --Wingsandsword 19:56, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

"'Fraud' and 'scam' are both completely unacceptable terms to use in this article, as they are quite possibly libellous in the absence of some actual legal action against him in that regard." I doubt its libelous to state that a person claims a doctorate from a school and does not indicate that that doctorate was granted illegally. Libel is a crime, yes, but it only applies when what you say is knowingly false. Given that I've been very careful to ground my statements on verifiable facts, I don't think libel applies. "Saying he obtained this degree knowing it was not legally authorized is on it's own unverifyable, since he obtained his two decades before any question as to the legitimacy of the UOP, and quite a stretch to say that he knew that the UOP had no legal standing when he got his degree. " Point out where I've accussed him of knowing that it was not legally authorized when he got it. I've said that he does not mention that it was granted by an illegal school. That's verifiable. "It is not an extraordinary claim that somebody with a Bachelor's Degree was hired as an instructor of martial arts at a college, and used credentials granted by a martial arts organization as qualifications to teach martial arts." And if you want to make that clarification, then do so. Omitting that fact (that his PhD wasn't recognized academically by KSU) implies claims which have not been verified. "He also discusses his time as a instructor of martial arts at Kentucky State University in the early 80's on page 49 of his book Koga Ryu Ninjutsu, and as a source that has been through an outside editorial review, it is suitable for citation by Wikipedia standards." Quote it and reference it. "rephrasing it to say that it was founded at the suggestion of Sacharnoski and his ZKSBBR, but later gained recognition from multiple sources outside of Juko Kai is perfectly reasonable" I didn't say it wasn't.  Provide verifiable sources for these other multiple sources. -anon

I looked over the new version and while its a marked improvement, there is still a ton of unverified, uncited claims in it and steps backwards in some places. I keep thinking of the grade I would have gotten on a paper when I was working on my degree in the liberal arts (anthropology, not history) if I had turned in such a poorly sourced document. Shouldn't we strive for something better?

Some of the necessary changes for clarity and verification have been made and are detailed below "While working as an instructor, he was informed that KSU would accept credentials from the University of Oriental Philosophy operated by Juko Kai as criteria for promotions and pay raises in the capacity of a martial arts instructor, and so he began to study for degrees from them, receiving an unaccredited MA in 1980 and PhD in 1982. "

Unverified, therefore deleted.

"While some critics have pointed out that he holds a non-accredited degree and the UOP had significant legal problems many years later, Durbin has does not conceal that his doctorate came from an unconventional source, and openly admits that many do not accept or recognize the degree. "

"some critics" is vague. It is better to state the fact that he holds a non-accredited degree and that the UOP has had significant legal problems regarding granting degrees illegally.

Rewrote as "His degree is non-accredited and the UOP has had significant legal problems regarding granting degrees illegally . For his part, William Durbin simply states in the Kiyojute Ryu faq that, "Some accept this degree and others do not".

"In 1982 the Zen Kokusai Soke Budo/Bugei Remmei, a board operated by Juko Kai to recognize martial arts, acknowledged him as Shodai." Rewrote to clarify that the ZKSBBR is headed by Sacharnoski. "In 1982 the Zen Kokusai Soke Budo/Bugei Remmei, a board operated by Juko Kai to recognize martial arts (and headed by Sacharnoski), acknowledged him as Shodai "

"In 1986 the Dai Nippon Seibukan Budo/Bugei Kai recognized Kiyojute Ryu." Deleted as it has not been verified.

"Over the next two decades he and Kiyojute Ryu would come to be recognized by Kosho Shorei Ryu of Thomas Mitose, Sei Shoho Shorei Kai via Bruce Juchnik and the Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Ryu of Nimr Hassan. Bill "Superfoot" Wallace also personally granted his recognition to Kiyojute Ryu. Lastly, in 1999, Ramon Lono Ancho of Kodenkan also recognized Kiyojute Ryu ." rewrote to clarify source of this information in line to "According to Durbin, Over the next two decades he and Kiyojute Ryu would come to be recognized by Kosho Shorei Ryu of Thomas Mitose, Sei Shoho Shorei Kai via Bruce Juchnik and the Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Ryu of Nimr Hassan. Bill "Superfoot" Wallace also personally granted his recognition to Kiyojute Ryu. Lastly, in 1999, Ramon Lono Ancho of Kodenkan also recognized Kiyojute Ryu ."

"By 1994 he had been granted Shihan status in Karate, Jujitsu, Aikijujutsu, Kobujutsu (under Sacharnoski) and Ninjutsu (under Nimr Hassan, although he has separately been awarded Yudansha ranking in Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu under Masaaki Hatsumi of Bujinkan), and incorporating elements of each of those arts into his curriculum." Changed to make the source of this information clear in line. "By 1994 he had been granted Shihan status in Karate, Jujitsu, Aikijujutsu, Kobujutsu (under Sacharnoski) and Ninjutsu (under Nimr Hassan). According to Durbin's writings, he has separately been awarded Yudansha ranking in Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu under Masaaki Hatsumi of Bujinkan.  The Ryu incorporates elements of each of those arts into its curriculum."

" like Shorinji Kempo, " rewrote to " such as Shorinji Kempo, "

"These tests consist of essays and private conversations (called mondo) with the head of the system." Has been rewritten as ""These tests consist of essays and private conversations (called mondo) with the head of the system, William Durbin, on such issues as 'how can you improve your relationship with God?'"

"Kiyojute Ryu informs all students of this requirement at the beginning of their training." deleted as there has been no verification.

Jeff, there's something I found that just doesn't make any sense. You stated earlier in this discussion, "My problems with Dr. Durbin WERE NEVER about his ability to teach the martial arts. He is an excellent teacher, and anyone who choses to train under him will learn alot, if they apply themselves." But you stated at http://bullshido.net/forums/printthread.php?t=6998&pp=40 that, "Durbin told us that we were not allowed to study more than one system at a time. Now I know why. His system was deficient. I've learned twice the amount of technique going to clinics, visiting dojos, etc., than I ever did within the walls of his dojo." Please answer the question "did you learn twice the amount of technique going to clinics, visiting dojos, etc. then you ever did within the walls of his dojo or did you not?"

- Ok, let me clarify.

Is Durbin a good instructor? Yes, if you are interested in learning Okinawan Karate skills. He emphasizes good skill and technique.

Is he a good instructor if you want to learn self-defense...now we have the problem. After visiting various Gracie style clinics, I was amazed at how little I actually knew, after ten-twelve years under the instruction of Durbin. I was, several times, put into grappling situations that I could not counter.

My opinion is that Durbin spends too much time teaching handstand kicks and Tai Chi, and not enough time on the grappling aspects of self defense. (By grappling I mean pins and chokes, not Judo style throws.)

So did I learn more after leaving Durbin? Absolutely, but I had a good grasp on the striking aspects of self-defense, so the grappling simply enhanced my prior training. Durbin is a big stickler on Self-defense based skills, but the emphasis on grappling simply isn't there.

Also, I always had a problem with one particular comment that he made all the time. He stated that the vast majority of fights do not go to the ground. I have to disagree, and believe that the majority of law enforcement people will tell you the same. Most fights end up on the ground, one way or the other. Durbin simply does not teach techniques designed to work in these situations.

So to answer your question, yes, I did learn more outside of the walls of the Hombu Dojo. That doesn't mean the training that I had under Durbin was bad, just incomplete. (again, my opinion only.) And understand that my reasons for training in the martial arts, may be different from yours, or anyone else's.  I have an emphasis on self-defense, reality based skills. So for me, going outside the dojo became profitable.

Let me say one more thing....I have, in the past, been one of the biggest critics of Durbin, mainly for his relationship to Juko Kai, and support of Nimr Hassan. Comments that I have made in the past about Durbin, and Sacharnoski for that matter, were mistakes, and they are mistakes that I take responsibility for. That's not to say that anything I stated was false. The internet was simply not the place for me to air my problems. I should have always discussed the issues with Durbin directly.

Live and learn.

J Boler

Thank you for the reply. I agree that people learn martial arts for different reasons and that different schools focus on different things and its all good. You state "Is he a good instructor if you want to learn self-defense...now we have the problem." How then do you respond to the Ryu's claim to focus on self-defense, "Despite the large and varied curriculum, instruction focuses primarily on practical self-defense." What do you make of his claim in this regard?

Well it does emphasize self-defense, if you keep in mind that there are no sport aspects to the art. (Although an arguement could be raised that some sparring could enhance self-defense abilities.) And what he does teach is geared toward self-defense.

For whatever reason, he refused to see the importance of grappling in self-defense situations. Now for those who have not attended Kiyojute Ryu classes before, do not get the idea that grappling is not taught. He has a large Jujutsu curriculum including throws, chokes, and some pins. It just isn't emphasized, and his attitude toward it is lacking. He's always been a "kicker" first, and "grappler" last.

As to where he gets his claim that the majority of fights do not go to the ground, I do not know. Every law enforcement officer I have talked to has disagreed with that.

J Boler - Let me make it clear why I'm not just dealing with this in private between Durbin and myself. I was lied to for years in the Ryu. I was lied to directly to my face. I do not want another person to have to experience the same thing I did. I want people to be informed - preferably as early as possible. I needed to remain silent for five years because I wanted to gain some emotional distance from the issue. Now, I feel that I've done that. Its time for me to fulfil my responsibility to inform others so that they don't experience what I did. To do that, I need to post in public. Still, everything needs to be verified (perhaps moreso than ever). That's why I'm working on an encyclopedia article - to make sure everything that goes in it is verified. -

While I understand your viewpoint, I would make sure that you at least air your disagreements with Bill himself. Don't make the same mistake I did of just shouting out on the net. You have a right to inform the public of facts, but I would leave everything else out of it.

J Boler

William Durbin is well aware of my viewpoints. It was what led to him writing me that letter which stated that I was going to hell.

- Can I ask when this took place? I have heard that Durbin's religious views have become more and more esoteric over the years, but this really seems to be a jump for him.

I'm going to send you private mail about this issue as it references people whom I'd rather not drag through the mud in public (that is, I think they made the best of a situation that overwhelmed them and I don't want to drag them into it in public). - It might be a good idea to define what you mean by "recognition." How did Juchnick, Mitose, Ancho, etc., "recognize" Bill? It's my understanding that they simply recognized him as the Soke of his own art, which by itself, isn't much. They did not recognize him as an authority on Mitose. They recognized him as the Soke of Kiyojute Ryu. I recognize him as the Soke of Kiyojute Ryu, so should I be included in that?

In the case of Juchnik and Mitose, they did not grade him, nor does he hold titles and/or ranks in either system. Ancho is different. It's my understanding that he may have actually received some sort of grading in the Kodenkan system. Can you verify?

It should be noted that his recognition by Juko Kai is vastly different than his recognition by the other entities. The Zen Kokusai Soke Budo/Bugei Remmei is a division of Juko Kai, where members can request "Sokeships" by Sacharnoski. He did not receive any such recognition by anyone else.

I knew I had this somewhere. Here is a copy of the ZKSBBR Organization Chart listing Durbin as the Vice President. I believe it's dated 1991, and is from the Juko Kai Organizational Newsletter. I do not know whether or not he still holds this position.

http://www.frankfortinfo.com/pdf/zksbbr_orgchart.PDF

J Boler

PS: Out of morbid curiosity, is Bill aware that this article exists? Did you receive permission to post it, and is he aware that the general public has editing ability on it?

Now about not allowing students to study other arts. There is no written rule to that effect, and I know it's not used at dojo other than the Hombu, because specifically at the UK Club we had students from other dojo and clubs come to train with us regularly, in one extreme case a Black Belt with the Shaolin-Do club that met right before us, who would bow off, change from one gi to another, tie on a white belt, and step up and start practicing with us. Durbin might personally prefer that his students only study one art at a time, but I know it's not a hard & fast rule.

Oh, and Mr. Boler, about he statement about Togakure Ryu comes, as I cited, from Durbin's new book on page 100, which is the "about the author" part where he briefly lists his credentials. He apparently thought it neccesary to point out he had ninjutsu credentials besides through Nimr Hassan, the exact quote is "Durbin also has a black belt in Bujinkan Togakure ryu from Masaaki Hatsumi, under the auspices of John Willson and Sacharnoski". It doesn't say when he was awarded this status (although I'd imagine it was fairly recent, since it doesn't appear in older lists of his credentials), nor what degree (thus I'd assume Shodan, or if there was higher rank it would be mentioned), but it did say "Togakure Ryu". Now, if Bujinkan did change the name that they refer to it as, his instructor might not have followed through or he might have referred to it under it's old name, but that's what the book says. If Bujinkan did change the name, then changing the reference might be in order. Also, since you asked, no, I made this article of my own accord and I haven't gotten a chance to go to the Hombu in a while, I train mostly at UK. Since in my past conversations with him he has seemed relatively uninterested in the Internet, I would imagine him not to be particularly interested, although I did plan to mention it and some of the points said and discussed here on my next visit. About being Vice President of the ZKSBBR, he doesn't claim that in any of his current literature, only that he is the "Historian" of that organization.

As for recognition, I always thought that it was pretty clear that it meant something to the effect of "These people, already established in the field, acknowledge this man and this art as legitimate, and the person behind it isn't just making up nonsense and calling it martial arts." Sort of like a martial arts version of diplomatic recognition.

As to our anonymous critic implying the article is of low quality, if you'll take a look around, it's one of the better Martial Arts articles on Wikipedia. It's got a lot more citation and references than the vast majority of similar articles (go browse around for a bit). Look at the articles on other relatively small martial arts systems and see how they look, even take a look at the articles on some major martial arts. Looking at WikiProject Martial Arts, the collaborative project for for Martial Arts articles on Wikipedia, and this certainly appears to be up to their standards for describing an "individual martial art", and looking over their articles, this is certainly a cut above other articles on relatively minor systems in terms of documentation and thoroughness.

Stylewise, there is no reason to go adding "According to Durbin" to the front of sections, when I've already added footnotes pointing to the exact writing. You asked me to cite my source for some of the things in this article, things which came from a book which has been through an outside editorial review, and I did, but you felt it neccesary to add that too.

You also edited "how can you improve your relationship with God?" back in. That question was already mentioned once in the article, it doesn't need to be mentioned twice that it's part of a promotion test.

The statement about him using his UOP credentials for a job as a martial arts instructor at KSU was something you already agreed to on the talk page here, you outright welcomed me to make that clarification that it was not used for academic purposes but as a martial arts credential. I thought we had an agreement on that point, although I am rewording it slightly, hopefully to try and reach some compromise here. --Wingsandsword 19:38, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

The criteria that I'm using is simple. I am not judging the article by other articles on Wiki. I'm trying to get it wrote such that it would receive an "A" in a 500 level liberal arts class at a top ranked school. You know its not there yet. I want to get it there. The only reason that someone might protest putting "According to Durbin.." in the article itself is if they were trying to hide that fact. It is common practice in the papers I've written in the past to make it clear in the article when I'm using, as support for a claim, statements made by the person who made that claim.

Durbin, to my knowledge, never had a problem with people who started off in other systems continuing to study those other systems(like Ron Day who studied Aikido with the UK Aikido club continuing to study Aikido after joining Kempo), but high level students who would pick up another art after they were high level students was another story. On a personal note, I'm curious, is Ron Day still with Kiyojute Ryu?

To my knowledge, Dave O'Toole is no longer with the system. If that's true, then I'm guessing that there is no longer a school in Cleveland, Ohio.

"Also, since you asked, no, I made this article of my own accord and I haven't gotten a chance to go to the Hombu in a while, I train mostly at UK. Since in my past conversations with him he has seemed relatively uninterested in the Internet, I would imagine him not to be particularly interested, although I did plan to mention it and some of the points said and discussed here on my next visit."

I would recommend that you inform him as soon as possible. Being someone who worked for a time on a "web-development" team, I am sure that he would not be happy with the fact that someone put something up without his prior permission, or the ability to contribute. Especially when it's editable by the general public.

J Boler - One more clarification:

"Sei Shoho Shorei Kai via Bruce Juchnik"

This should be listed as "Sei Kosho Shorei Kai".

--J Boler