Talk:William Henry Harrison Seeley/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Nominator: 19:41, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Czarking0 (talk · contribs) 23:04, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello and thank you for your contributions. I think with a little bit of work this article can make GA.

As a side note I saw you had some Russian proficency and thought you might enjoy my recent article Zemstvo.

Now let's get to it

Comments
Ok, looking through the review I'll go through what you've added.

1a. I was completely unaware of that, I've now sorted that issue.

2d. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this one, when I was fixing 1a I searched for certain words included in your quote and couldn't find any mention of that, could you point out where in the article I used that?
 * My apologies, I meant to leave this comment on a different review. ✅

3a. I actually remember searching for more information on this and didn't find anything about it, nor could I figure out what version of the China medal he would have received, so the mention will simply have to be removed.
 * Why removed? I thought the quote was notable but if that is all the info you can find I think you can leave it as is.

3b. I can cut this down, yes, and will get to that at some point today. CommissarDoggoTalk?  05:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've sorted out 1a, removed the mention of the China medal as per 3a and have cut down the Background section as per 3b. As stated prior, I will need extra clarification for 2d as I'm now certain that there is nowhere in the article where that text is mentioned @Czarking0. CommissarDoggoTalk?  11:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Responded Czarking0 (talk) 14:47, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * To clarify on the China medal, the quote will remain there, I've just removed the part prior to the quote where the medal is mentioned. There were two renditions of a medal for service in China, one for service during the First Opium War and another for service during the Boxer Rebellion.
 * He could well have been mentioning a specific award he won for conduct during the conflict or it could have been a wider conflict medal, but I'd simply rather have that specificity. CommissarDoggoTalk?  15:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Czarking0 Tagging as a reminder. Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  11:00, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe I misunderstood but I think I am waiting on you to edit the Background section? Are you expecting some response from me? Czarking0 (talk) 20:38, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, to the background section. I've already cut it down a decent amount compared to what it was. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  20:53, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You should be able to look through it now, I've finished faffing about with it. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  21:32, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I added a section below about this Czarking0 (talk) 23:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Reducing the Background
My suggestions:


 * "Daimyo Mōri Takachika of the Chōshū Clan supported the emperor,[3] declaring that after the 10th day of the 5th month (according to the traditional Japanese calendar), all foreign ships traversing the Straits of Shimonoseki were to be fired upon without warning. "
 * Change to "Foreign ships were banned from crossing the Straights of Shimonoseki after (actual date here)


 * "Following the deadline, several European ships were attacked. On June 25, the US merchant steamer SS Pembroke was attacked, suffering minor damage.[8][9][10][11] The French aviso Kien Chan was attacked the next day, being hit 18 times by shore batteries, suffering four casualties and a damaged engine.[9][11][12] On July 11, despite receiving a warning from the crew of the Kien Chan, the 16-gun Dutch warship Medusa sailed into the straits. The Medusa was fired upon by shore batteries and two vessels and, in the following dash through the straits, was hit 31 times, leaving four dead and five wounded.[9][12]"
 * Change to "Following the deadline, several European ships were attacked while attempting to cross the straights. This resulted in the death of French and Dutch sailors"

Czarking0 (talk) 23:00, 14 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Found a specific date from a source already on the page and reduced this segment.
 * I've condensed this segment further, but I'd like to avoid reducing it to the suggested degree if possible.
 * <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  11:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok why is that? My thought is that there is already a page on the battle itself. The background here should cover the minimum that is needed to understand the notability of Seeley. To me the specific vessels damages and the extent of their damage is irrelevant to Seeley's actions. Czarking0 (talk) 23:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * My thought process is that all of it is relevant background to how Seeley came to be involved. Without those attacks on foreign shipping, the retaliatory strikes that they caused and the umming and ahing by Takachika and the Choshu, that international squadron would never have been sent and Seeley would likely have been relegated to a personnel manifest.
 * It also explains why each individual navy sent what they did to take part in the squadron. The US was limited to a single ship because of the ongoing civil war and the French were tied up in Mexico so could only send 3 ships, but the Dutch sent a decent contingent, including the Medusa, as did the British due to being a part of the treaty and the destruction of property/potential loss of trade and ships due to the closure. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  09:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok I think there is some middle ground here. For your first paragraph I think you have a good point and should keep the parts about Takachika and the Choshu.
 * For your second, I think your objective "explain why each individual navy sent what they did to take part in the squadron" is notable and relevant. However, the names of the ships and the extent of the damage did not prove that point to me. I simply read it as a notable accounting of the damage. Something along the lines of "the US sent one vessel and the French sent three each vessel took significant damage and several sailors died. The British and Dutch navies sent larger contingents in response to treaty obligations". Obviously that needs to be cleaned up a but and sources cited, but I think you get the idea? Czarking0 (talk) 05:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * How about that, the most recent edit? <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  11:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Looks good, will do some additional spot checks about the citations but I think the content is satisfactory Czarking0 (talk) 03:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)