Talk:William IV, Count of Nevers

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REFERENCE: 'HANGON' Tag: I've been strengthening articles all evening with relevant references and new information that I've been given, I just took a break! This stub refers to someone who is important in regard to his crusading career; as well as war wounds, he also brought the bishopric of Bethlehem back home with him! After my break, I'll include it in the article (which I would think would give him the desired notability) and the references from whence the information came.Margot525 (talk) 21:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)margot525


 * Great! Where did he die, exactly? (In Egypt? In Syria against Nur ad-Din? Some other battle?) Adam Bishop (talk) 08:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

William of Tyre
The external link I recently added, quotes William of Tyre on the death of William of Nevers as "nam subito diuturno-languore correptus, post longas corporis molestias". Does William also specify the exact cause? Dimadick (talk) 11:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, he just has a short paragraph; William came with some knights, offered to fight Muslims at his own expense, and then died. By the way, the link must be quoting the Patrologia Latina; I can change it to the more recent edition by Huygens if you'd like, or when I get the English translation back we can quote that instead. Here is my own translation of the passage, until then:


 * "At the same time, lord William, count of Nevers, a great prince, noble and powerful, from the kingdom of France, came to Jerusalem with a distinguished army, proposing to fight in the service of Christianity against the enemies of our faith, at his own expense; but immature death pitiably preceded his pious and honest zeal, despite his fortuitous deeds; for suddenly, seized by daily weakness, after long bodily troubles, in the first flower of most pleasing youth he ended his life with everyone's many sighs and weeping."


 * Adam Bishop (talk) 11:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. So the conditions of his death are at best uncertain while our current text implies wounds received in battle. Perhaps we ough to reflect the uncertainty? Dimadick (talk) 11:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I edited my first response. William seems to say that the count died before going into battle at all. Adam Bishop (talk) 11:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Catholic Encyclopedia
The 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia article on Nevers presents a slightly different account of events concerning the bishopric of Bethlehem.

"In 1168, William IV, Count of Nevers, willed to the Bishop of Bethlehem in Palestine the small town of Pantenor near Clamecy, also the hospital at Clamecy founded by his father William III in 1147.

In 1223, owing to the incursions of the Mussulmans in Palestine, the Bishop of Bethlehem settled at Clemecy, and exercised jurisdiction over the hospital and the faubourg of Pantenor; his successors were chosen by the counts, later by the dukes of Nevers, with the approval of the pope and the king.

In 1413 Charles VI tried to obtain for the titular Bishops of Bethlehem the privileges enjoyed by the other bishops of the realm, but the French clergy were opposed to this and the titular of Bethlehem was always considered a bishop in partibus infidelium.

The assembly of the clergy of France in 1635 granted the bishops of Bethlehem an annual pension. Christopher d'Authier of Sisgau, founder of the Missionary Priests of the Congregation of the Blessed Sacrament and celebrated for his sermons to the galley-slaves of Marseilles was Bishop of Bethlehem 1651-63."

This account has the Bishopric owning Pantenor since 1168, regardless of where each Bishop resided. No mention of Saladin and any effect he may have had on the fate of the Bishops. Any ideas which account is more accurate? Dimadick (talk) 11:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)