Talk:William Irvine (Scottish evangelist)

Untitled

 * talk header added/restored to top of this pageAstynax (talk) 19:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Housekeeping note: Added unsigned templates for any unsigned comments, ensured the chronological order of comments (earliest at top) for ease of reading. Donama (talk) 02:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge suggestion
Not sure why this isn't be discussed, but it seems like an obvious merge... after a quick glance at the articles, it appears we're talking about the same person in each. Stoneice02 07:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree - unfortunately I know next to nothing about Scottish Evangelism, so don't feel up to doing the merge myself. DuncanHill 10:54, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Needs to be merged carefully --Excalibur 10:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I did the merge. The articles actually had almost the same content (word for word).Lisamh 16:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

DELETION OF PICTURE
This picture is incorrectly labeled as Robert Chambers and William Irvine, when it is actually Andy Robb instead of Irvine. A. Robb was an Irishman who spent most of his ministry in South Africa. He did bear a superficial resemblance to Irvine. It is easy to prove this is not Irvine simply because of the age difference; R. Chambers was much too young to appear in a picture with Irvine when Irvine was the age of the man shown in this picture. I knew R. Chambers personally in Texas, and have confirmed with South African friends that the other man is definitely A. Robb. There are many pictures available of Irvine that could be used on this website, but it serves no purpose to have a picture of someone else instead of Irvine! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.56.36.194  (talk • contribs) 00:42, 30 July 2007

Living Witness Doctrine
There should be something in here about the Living Witness Doctrine that William propagated that caused Edward Cooney to leave the emovement that William started. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trv6983 (talk • contribs) 12:12, 28 December 2007

Illigetimate son
William Irvine also had an illegitmate son that he supported while being a leader of the 2x2 movement. See reference to it in 'The Secret Sect' by Doug and Helen Parker.Trv6983 (talk) 01:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Challenge for sources
I'd like to see proper sources for some of the claims in this article. It should not be difficult for statements that are true. I'm trying to be helpful here. Rather than reference self-published web sites, build references to the original documents (journals, letters, articles). Where this is not possible, question whether the statement can be made at all. At some point I will try to reorganize the article around verified sources only. Slofstra (talk) 01:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There are quite a few sources, both archival materials, as well as books (certainly not all self-published) in print. Among these are contemporary newspaper articles, journals and notes, letters (including those of William Irvine himself, which have some distribution). It may be that the citations need to be improved, and I will look at this. However, some folks in any religious system will never accept any source which differs from their own preconceptions and tenets, no matter how objective. And that is unfortunately the case with many of those I've met from some amongst the fruit of Irvine's ministry.Astynax (talk) 22:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * While your last statement may be true, I've not found that those folks inhabit places like wikipedia. I rather find that much conversation is at odds because the participants have not 'come to terms' (as per Mortimer Adler) before proceeding to discuss. Slofstra (talk) 19:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Consolidation, corrections and additions
This article has become quite disorganized, with some material being repeated in different sections. In order to make it read better, I am re-ordering into something more like chronological order within sections. I've also provided citations for those items which had been flagged. I've added a bit of new material (including the request for info regarding Irvine's son), removed some unattributed erroneous/misleading information (such as the reference to Irvine as a "Presbyterian evangelist, as he never was a minister in that church), and reworded some sections that seemed to be needlessly hostile. Irvine was and is a controversial character, and I doubt that partisans on either side will be fully satisfied, but hopefully these edits will address some of the concerns by both his supporters and opponents, yet give a full picture of the man and his place in history. The vast majority of the material which has been contributed to date is still here, although it may be moved or contain edits as mentioned above.Astynax (talk) 18:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Two minor corrections madeAstynax (talk) 18:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Added sidebar and photoAstynax (talk) 20:32, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

See also section
Removed * Freemasonry William Irvine was a member. because there's no source for this and it's not mentioned at all in the article. Probably freemasonry is not a key connecting article to this one. Perhaps we can add a note about Irvine's membership in the Freemasons in the main body of the article. Donama (talk) 02:13, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, this needs a source. If the editor who added has a good source, a reader might be interested to know more in the body of the article (especially if this had some affect on his ministry, outlook, or whatever). &bull; Astynax talk 19:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)