Talk:William Lloyd Garrison/Archive 1

South Park and Popular Culture
Anon 72.48.95.202 's assertion moved here for discussion. WBardwin 03:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * '"The animated character Herbert Garrison on Comedy Central's TV show South Park is based upon William Lloyd Garrison." *NEEDS A REFERENCE (because it is not true.'


 * This should be eliminated. There is no evidence to suggest it; none is given. The South Park character is a psychotic and a sexual pervert. Conflating the character with Garrison is slanderous. The burden of truth is not on us disprove any wild claim, but on the person making the claim; therefore I'm removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.252.76 (talk) 04:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


 * from my brief exposure, South Park is meant to be satiric and slanderous. But I would agree that the statement is inappropriate here and would agree on deletion.  WBardwin 15:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Garrison's birthday and ending comment
The ending comment in one of the sections states:

Marking Garrison's 200th birthday in August 2005, his descendants gathered in Boston for the first family reunion in about a century; where they discussed the legacy and impact of their most notable family member.

I feel this sentence is a contradiction in itself saying "Marking Garrison's 200th birthday in August" when his birthday was in December. If anyone has a problem with me rewording this please speak up. NRK 06:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I reworded the article, so the facts are the same. The Republican 01:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * - but when did the family meet, December or August? --JimWae 16:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Possible downside
Jerry Pournelle's site recently contained this: "...do as William Lloyd Garrison did and fire all workers when they reach age 50, turn them out into  the streets without pensions because they are no longer as productive...". Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this, and see how to bring this aspect out in the article? It certainly highlights one of the standard counter-arguments to the abolitionists, about what free work offered as an alternative. PML. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.62.227.38 (talk) 12:34, 4 March 2004 (UTC)


 * ... Are you suggesting that we write in support of slavery in this article?  I've got to ask, are you insane?  Rogue 9 08:36, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


 * ... It's not insane to argue the opposition, it has to be done. In order to understand Garrison's place in the slavery issue, we have to understand everything, and avoid over-glorifying him. - D, 18 Dec 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.202.239 (talk) 03:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Botched Formatting
Whoever did this revision -- "21:12, 6 February 2007 70.248.28.252 (Talk) (I added more important stuff and erased nonimportant things.)" -- really botched up the article formatting. With it, all headings and the picture are gone. Someone (with more skill than me) should revert to the earlier formatting, but maybe keep the added content if its worth it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.147.120.143 (talk) 13:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

Never mind, looks like I was just seeing an old version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.147.120.143 (talk) 13:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Date of return to New England
In the section on The Liberator, it says that "In 1831, Garrison returned to New England and founded a weekly anti-slavery newspaper of his own, The Liberator." Now, if the paper was first published on January 1, 1831, isn't it likely that Garrison returned before that date, in 1830? --Sturm 16:56, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Persistent petty vandalism from IPs
Is it possible to lock a page against modification by unregistered users? For some reason this page attracts more than its share of this. I suspect kids learn about him in school and come here to "tag" the page. I'll ask for such a lock if no registered users object here. Jeh (talk) 06:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's called "Semi-protection", and the official way to request it is at WP:RFP -- but my personal experience has been that it's completely and utterly useless to request anything there, unless you can manage to make your request right in the middle of an ongoing large-scale megavandalsim attack... AnonMoos (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Perceived negative characteristics
Garrison was an early and active supporter of many positive causes (abolition of slavery, rights for women, etc.), but it would only be fair to mention some of his characteristics which were not viewed positively (even by many who shared these overall basic goals) -- such as his complete refusal to constructively engage in any form of practical politics whatever, if this would compromise the abstract metaphysical purity of his ideology by one iota. So he stubbornly opposed the election of Lincoln in 1860, even though Lincoln was the best that abolitionists could realistically hope to get in the political situation of 1860, and electing Douglas or Breckinridge would certainly have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to free one single slave (and would have probably resulted in the appointment of additional Taney-style judges to the Supreme Court). He also made various foolish-sounding statements in support of secession (whether northern secession from the south or southern secession from the north), even though that also would have done nothing to free any slaves (except possibly a few in a fairly narrow zone near the new border between the countries). AnonMoos (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Garrison's Significance to Racial Equality
I'm a newbie; please read these comments accordingly.

In my opinion, the article as it stands (2/14/2010) doesn't adequately reflect Garrison's importance. Others had criticized slavery before him, but no white American had previously and loudly advocated that after slavery ended, blacks should be fully equal to whites in social and political status. Garrison was doing this as early as the 1830's, when (for example) he and his friends integrated a new railroad in or near Boston. As such, his significance to American history is profound.

I suppose some eminent historian has written some words that the article could quote as to Garrison's significance. However, I don't have a suitable quote to recommend. My view is influenced by Henry Mayer's "All On Fire", but I don't have a copy at hand. Oaklandguy (talk) 08:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Birthdate
It's kind of a joke that such a detail is in dispute, but the date given on the page (12 Dec.) was disputed even by Garrison himself. I'm not sure which is more reliable, but the 10th is supported by the family Bible, while the 12th is supported by town records. 64.9.61.65 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Changes occur regularly to this birthdate. "Find a Grave" cite lists the 12th while the article has consistently listed the 13th for the last few months. This biography link shows the 10th of December. The comment above suggests we may lack a truly definate source.  Should we place a question mark around the date?  WBardwin (talk) 23:50, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Voluntaryist?
The into paragraph says he was a voluntaryist and a supporter of women's suffrage. Voluntaryists reject electoral politics and therefore would not support women's (or anyones) suffrage. The "voluntaryist" description should be removed. Byates5637 (talk) 16:58, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Since this statement is not sourced and no one has responded I am removing it per WP:NOR Byates5637 (talk) 03:26, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Date of Birth
(Transfered from User talk:JayJasper)

I reverted your edit here because this ref given in the article says December 10. Is there some other conflicting ref your looking at? Richard-of-Earth (talk) 18:50, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I was going by this, but I consider your source to be more reliable, so I have correct the date in the Early life section per your citation as well.--JayJasper (talk) 18:53, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, so I decided to look in to this further and found this. Not only does it list the date of his birth as the 12th instead of the 10th, but the year as 1804 not 1805! Isn't that annoying. The year on his gravestone says 1805 from the ref you gave. I propose we leave the date the 10th and the year 1805 and put a copy of this conversation on the talk page. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 22:04, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I support your proposal. Given the discrepancies among the various sources, it should probably be discussed further on the talk page.--JayJasper (talk) 17:15, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I've just reverted someone who claimed to get a good grade on a school paper about the subject quoting the December 10 date. I reverted as OR, but after reviewing a few sources I'm wondering whether we should actually change the birthdate to a range (10, 12 or 13th, depending on the source). I'm seeing quite a spread in reliable sources. Is there a source or set of sources we should regard most highly? BusterD (talk) 01:46, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Attack by mob
The paragraph that describes Garrison's attack by a mob is uncited. Here's the version I have:

"October 21. William Lloyd Garrison is attacked. Prior to a scheduled speech by the British abolitionist George Thompson before the Boston Female Anti-Slavery Society at 46 Washington Street, a mob, or, according to the Boston Commercial Gazette, 'an assemblage of fifteen hundred or two thousand highly respectable gentlemen,' chases and catches Garrison, ties a rope around him, and drags him to Boston Common. Rescued by Mayor Lyman and the city constables, Garrison is taken first to City Hall (now the Old State House), then to the Leverett Street Jail, for his own safety. The Boston Transcript later blames Garrison for the attack, because he 'excited people to such an abullition of their deeply exasperated feelings.'"

That's very different from the story in the article, where he was almost lynched by "several thousand" female abolitionists because they were angry with someone else for not showing up (frankly, I have trouble believing that). Anyone? Rosekelleher (talk) 22:44, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on William Lloyd Garrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20040329190225/http://www.sewanee.edu:80/faculty/willis/Civil_War/documents/Liberator.html to http://www.sewanee.edu/faculty/Willis/Civil_War/documents/Liberator.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on William Lloyd Garrison. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070921221830/http://fair-use.org/the-liberator/1832/12/29/on-the-constitution-and-the-union.html to http://fair-use.org/the-liberator/1832/12/29/on-the-constitution-and-the-union.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:20, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Relationship with Wendell Phillips
This article indicates some estrangement with Wendell Phillips stemming from a May 1865 disagreement. There is, however, a letter from Garrison to his wife, where no such animosity is evident. A sidebar note in the letter discusses honoring a request from "Wendell" for discretion about "George" and Anne Anthony. Samatva (talk) 16:54, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect information on Garrison's wife.
As a direct descendant of the Coffin family, and Uncle Willy being an in-law, I'm very certain of who was who. Wiki states on Martha Coffin Wright's page that Garrison's wife was Martha's sister. Helen Eliza Benson was not on that list of sisters which also includes Lucretia Coffin Mott (in my family we use her familiar name, Lucy, as I do) for whom I am named. In fact, Garrison married Ellen "Nella" Coffin and as I said, sister of Martha Wright and Lucretia Mott. I'm not sure who Helen Benson is but she wasn't Garrison's wife. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucycosborne (talk • contribs) 12:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Composing pieces for the Liberator directly on to the press
Is there any source for Garrison writing some parts of the Liberator directly on to the printing press without writing them out ahead of time? There is a citation to the 1921 biography of Garrison, but printing technology of that era would make it very difficult to write more than just very basic bits of writing that way.

- Btimmermann — Preceding unsigned comment added by Btimmermann (talk • contribs) 15:38, 24 January 2021 (UTC)