Talk:William of Sens

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He never was able to work again. He allegedly gave the job to a  monk but he felt that he would be outcasted from monastic society and gave it to a man known only as William the Englishman.

He completed the eastern portion of the church, and finished it in 1184.

If I knew what this was supposed to mean I'd rewrite it myself. The most logical interpretation is that W. Sens gave the job to a nameless monk, who gave it to W. Englishman, who completed the job in 1184. However, the text as written is ambiguous and without knowing the true events I don't want to touch it. And "outcasted" is not a very nice word. James Fryer 22:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Role of William of Sens in Canterbury, and place of death
Here's the full quote from Encyclopaedia Britannica on-line, "William of Sens". April 21, 2020. "As work began on the vault of the eastern part of the choir, William was incapacitated by a fall from a scaffold. He probably continued to direct the work from his sickbed, but this was impractical, and so he gave up and returned to France, where he died. His successor, William the Englishman, seems to have followed his plans.

Because of similarity in design, especially in the construction of the choir, William is thought to have participated in building the Cathedral at Sens (begun 1130), one of the first churches in which Gothic architecture appears as a coherent style."

As far as I know, there's no actual evidence that he worked on Sens, jus the similarity. Larousse also says he died in France. Is there any dispute here?

Cordially, SiefkinDR (talk) 18:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, the citation says "As his name suggests, he had worked at Sens Cathedral (begun c.1140), which had some elements similar to those used at Canterbury, and he knew Notre-Dame, Paris, and other Gothic buildings in Rheims, Soissons, Arras, Cambrai, and elsewhere in North-West France, notably Notre-Dame-la-Grande at Valenciennes (1171)". It does not say where he died, or when, other than indicating "c.1180". Please read the citations before changing the meaning of the sentences to which they are attached. GPinkerton (talk) 02:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure we're quoting the same source here. The Encylopaedia Britannica on-line,  the current edition by subscription, says: "As work began on the vault of the eastern part of the choir, William was incapacitated by a fall from a scaffold. He probably continued to direct the work from his sickbed, but this was impractical, and so he gave up and returned to France, where he died. His successor, William the Englishman, seems to have followed his plans."


 * Here's the text from Larousse Encyclopaedia on line: " En effet, au cours des travaux, Guillaume de Sens tomba d'un échafaudage et, réduit à l'impuissance, dut rentrer à Sens où il mourut peu après. Mais la valeur de ses plans était si bien reconnue que l'architecte anglais qui lui succéda eut soin de les suivre fidèlement, et l'on retrouve dans ce monument la même ordonnance et la même architecture que l'on admire dans la cathédrale de Sens.

It indicates that he returned to Sens after his accident and died there shortly afterwards. On the other hand, you're quite right that he worked on Sens Cathedral. Larrouse "without doubt" thet he worked on Sens Cathedral, based on his fame and reputation, and Britannica says he was "The leading builder and "most subtle artisan" of Sens.  SiefkinDR (talk) 09:33, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about the other citation, which I quoted, the one to the Oxford Dictionary of Architecture and Landscape Architecture (2015). GPinkerton (talk) 16:12, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't know about that citation. I didn't add the text that you're describing, or the citation.  I've never seen the Oxford Dictionary of Architecture and Landscape Architecture.  I still don't quite see what the problem is here. SiefkinDR (talk) 17:31, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I added the citation and the information to which it was attached. You removed the citation in one place and in another removed both citation and the attached sentence. GPinkerton (talk) 17:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Now I understand. I apologize. I'm sorry, I should not have deleted that text and citation.  SiefkinDR (talk) 17:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No problem, I already restored them! GPinkerton (talk) 17:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)