Talk:Williams syndrome

Seriously? That's the best you can do?
Are we really expected to believe that the only properly license picture of William's syndrome you can find is a picture of a kid with the eyes blacked out? Since some of the more obvious aspects are in the eyes, this picture is worthless. The internet has thousands of pictures better than that, I'm sure at least a few are properly licensed.

Glad to see there are some real images now! John Alan Elson ★  WF6I A.P.O.I. 00:06, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

1
So really my niece Tayvienn has William Syndrome and the first time I herd of it I was scared, really what the hell is it?

And what exactly is an "elfin" facial appearance? Other than being a major brand of Goodman Fielder... (That's what you'd get if you search for elfin in Wikipedia). Hmm. Alveolate 06:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

what is the "opposite" syndrome the page refers to?

Language skills are not "depressed" with Asperger's syndrome, the related disorders section doesn't even have any scientific backup AshTM 03:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Genetic location
I am not sure about the location. The present article states q11.2. Isn't it q11.23? - fnielsen 19:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

You're correct. OMIM states 7q11.23. I changed the article to reflect this. 165.123.139.232 (talk) 17:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Heredity
The article specifies the disease as genetic and lists gene abnormalities related to it, but does not specify whether or not it is inherited (and whether it can be recessive in carriers who do not know they carry these abnormal genes). Is it? Those familiar with genetics and such disorders may not need this clarification, but us laypeople do.

Inheritance: a summary
My understanding is that 50% of the children of WS will have WS, as the deletion is dominant. But if neither parent has WS then the mutation is always a new mutation, so happens randomly, though more often in older fathers. JDAWiseman 15:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Small Edit
Removed bit about "seeing the forest for its trees" as it was irrelevant and an admitted generalization. 75.8.98.20 00:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)  ok

Oh ! It was still there, and I found the original reference, and 3 articles that cited it. OK ?

Sadly actual article cited was not found online !--195.137.93.171 21:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Just to bring this up, my sister has Williams Syndrome, and we have all of these books about it. It might of been in my friend's book with Downs Syndrome, but still. It compared drawings of William's kids and Down's kids.

Bearflip (talk) 01:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

MAD magazine mascot.
I removed this section, since it seems to violate WP:OR:

Humor Magazine MAD Magazine's Mascot Alfred E. Newman bears a striking resemlance to those with Williams Syndrome. It is unknown as to rather this is a coincedence or not. The references given are simply pictures of Newman and an affected individual; the connection seems to have been made by the contributor. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 06:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

It Says so in the Alfred E Newman Article. I'll try to find a reliable source. --Emevas 02:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Politically incorrect
I am sure the terms "mentally retarded" and "Mental retardation" are politically incorrect. Perhaps we should change it to something else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ATCfilms (talk • contribs) 14:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

No... mental retardation is a medically accredited term. No need to fix something that isn't broken. Also please sign with 4 tildes. 75.179.159.4 (talk) 22:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of potentially politically incorrect things - is it proper to refer to the syndrome as "the opposite of autism"? Uncertain if that's a stance taken by the majority of or at least a significant amount of professionals in the field, but it seems that referring to any such disorder as the opposite of another, particularly one as varied as autism, may be a bit of an oversimplification and not one that Wikipedia editors should draw or cite without significant evidence. I'll look through the sources asap, and I apologize for posting this comment without doing so, but I wanted to address the potential issue before I forgot it. 107.185.31.145 (talk) 07:44, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

"Opposite of Autism" is highly innacurate and misleading. Autism isn't just "Bad at people", its a complicated cluster of symptoms that appear to stem from sense processing that can have as a side effect a degree of social impairment. Autistic people can be quite gregarious and social, even if they might be blowing the social cues. 49.255.218.102 (talk) 04:37, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

60 Minuets Reference
Here is a link regarding the 60 Minuets Program.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/06/60II/main591710.shtml

Timboatman (talk) 19:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

unusual language skills
The phrase "unusual language skills" is vague and does not say specifically how they are unusual. This should be changed to "unusually good" or something similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.57.67 (talk) 04:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Pop Culture
Is this particular entry really necessary?
 * "In the Wes Anderson film The Royal Tenenbaums, the character of Dudley has fictional Heinsbergen Syndrome, which features many similarities with Williams syndrome. Dudley has difficulty understanding spatial relations (dyslexia, colorblindness, inability to solve puzzles) coupled with an acute sense of hearing."

I don't see the need for this to be in the article, as it doesn't SPECIFICALLY relate to Williams Syndrome. Pyrotics (talk) 15:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention being original research. WLU (talk) 15:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They're the reasons many people learned of the condition and looked at the article. -- AvatarMN (talk) 02:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But I don't think that people honestly thought to look up "Williams Syndrome" from a character having "Heinsbergen Syndrome" Pyrotics (talk) 20:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Mick Jaggers? 2A00:23C5:C13C:9F00:C99E:298A:C669:8E1 (talk) 23:38, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

check pinel - bio-psychology for reference 4
"Williams syndrome shares some similarities with autism (such as difficulty understanding the state of mind of conversational partners[4])"

pinel states almost the exact opposite —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.129.215.222 (talk) 19:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

How many jellybeans are in a bowl?
Is this the condition, where these young adults with this syndrome will give crazy answers like 1 million? That seems consistent with the article's section on visual processing, and this was (I'm not sure though) the example most commonly gave, when describing the visual processing deficiency. Sentriclecub (talk) 05:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Symptoms
I removed the reference to autism. The article does not contain enough detail on WS to make a comparison, let alone the autistic spectrum. Moreover, neither Williams syndrome, nor autism can be boiled down to being nothing more than the respective social inclinations of people who have it, which should be obvious from the fact that people can be diagnosed with both. Just because it makes a good sound bite doesn't mean it belongs in an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.183.87.224 (talk) 10:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I came to notice the similarities of Autism and the ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder), along with Rett syndrome and William syndrome. All have a chromosomal factor, but autism is more common in boys and Rett's in girls, and Williams seem to share social impairments with the other two. The main difference is Rett's and William's have more physical abnormalities, but not autism except for gastrointestinal and metabolic problems is found in many children and adults with autism. Williams seem to show a more interest in people, or similar to ADD and OCD symptoms include fixation on a person, but one common characteristic in autism is fixation on a subject and field of interest which is associated with ADD or OCD. There are many cases of Williams syndrome patients have varied levels of ADD or OCD, and mild degree of autism.71.102.26.168 (talk) 05:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

The article neglects to mention many of the most common and also most serious symptoms, including: infantile hypercalcemia, systemic hypertension, urethral stenosis, diverticulosis, aortic hypoplasia, pulmunoary stenosis, coarctation of the aorta, supravalvular aortic stenosis, ADD, willingness to talk to and follow strangers, and impaired visuospatial constructive abilities.

The symptoms covered by the article are certainly interesting, but there is much more to the story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.177.0.86 (talk) 01:20, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

After reading this section of the talk, I'm now seriously considering removing the section on autism. It reads as speculation and a misunderstanding of psychology.107.185.31.145 (talk) 08:14, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

did the actress in the law and order svu episode really have Wilson's Syndrome?
please send the answer to me on qanda666@yahoo.com thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.12.165.254 (talk) 23:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Mick Jagger
I added "Mick Jagger" like features to the description, as suggested by Steven Pinker. Since he is a successful person, and was considered sex symbol during his youth, perhaps this description can be more amicable than "elfin", which is explicitly rejected by the Williams community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.191.31.151 (talk) 11:35, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Famous people
Does anyone have any article which speculate about famous people with WBS? People I have noticed are WP:BLP and WP:BLP and the dearly departed Ted Kennedy. Kennedy was known for being gregarious and easy to talk with. He was the great compromiser, because he talked to everyone and didn't actually have an opinion. He actually was intelligent, yet appeared to be buffoon because there were things he did not understand. He backed the Republican's No Child Left Behind Act because he knew he was pro-education and no Democrat could explain to him what was wrong with it.

Not to pick on Teddy, but we list famous people in other articles. This one could be considered negative for BLP purposes, which is why I am not elaborating on my living examples at this point.  Randall Bart Talk  04:32, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

NEJM Review Article
Good review article in New England Journal of Medicine, Williams-Beuren Syndrome, Barbara R. Pober, 362:239, Jan. 21, 2010 --Nbauman (talk) 18:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

NeuroWiki Comment
Erika-

Good work thus far! The article is very interesting, and there are just a few issues that I think would be helpful to address. Developmental delay is mentioned in the article as a symptom of the syndrome; I think it would be beneficial to provide some details/examples of these delays. Also, expanding on the high verbal aspect of this syndrome might be helpful (e.g. the animal naming example given, as well as the illusion to these individuals having a “cocktail party personality” – I would elaborate on this phrase as well). Furthermore, there is a sentence in the article which mentions that children with this syndrome do not display signs of inherent racial bias; I would not only elaborate on this a bit, but also divulge in much more detail the psychological differences between these individuals and normally developing individuals. Also, the paragraph about the “elfin” description given to people with this syndrome could stand to be stated a bit more eloquently, possibly with a bit better of a transition from “signs and symptoms.” The section on the nervous system is very well written! Finally, the treatment section could use some detail.

Side note – high prevalence rate!

Overall, fantastic start! You have a very interesting topic and a lot of material to work with, it should turn out wonderfully.

Betinge (talk) 08:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC) Bella

Article Review
This article is quite trustworthy, quite unbiased, fairly complete, well-written,and quite accurate. It would be helpful to enhance the section on "Treatment" so that individuals have a better idea of where to look for useful treatment resources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsilton (talk • contribs) 02:59, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Ties to dog domestication
Interesting quote in National Geographic article:

''But delving into the DNA of our closest companions can deliver some tantalizing insights. In 2009 UCLA biologist Robert Wayne led a study comparing the wolf and dog genomes. The finding that made headlines was that dogs originated from gray wolves not in East Asia, as other researchers had argued, but in the Middle East. Less noticed by the press was a brief aside in which Wayne and his colleagues identified a particular short DNA sequence, located near a gene called WBSCR17, that was very different in the two species. That region of the genome, they suggested, could be a potential target for "genes that are important in the early domestication of dogs." In humans, the researchers went on to note, WBSCR17 is at least partly responsible for a rare genetic disorder called Williams-Beuren syndrome. Williams-Beuren is characterized by elfin features, a shortened nose bridge, and "exceptional gregariousness"—its sufferers are often overly friendly and trusting of strangers.

''After the paper was published, Wayne says, "the number one email we got was from parents of children suffering from Williams-Beuren. They said, Actually our children remind us of dogs in terms of their ability to read behavior and their lack of social barriers in their behavior." The elfin traits also seemed to correspond to aspects of the domestication phenotype. Wayne cautions against making one-to-one parallels between domestication genes and something as genetically complex as Williams-Beuren. The researchers are "intrigued," he says, and hoping to explore the connection further.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning this in this article as well? Esn (talk) 06:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Image
Image where you can see the eyes?--88.104.136.143 (talk) 21:44, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

"decreased inhibition ability"
That's one verbal knot to many, so needs rewriting. What it is meant to convey is that the decreased inhibition confers the enhanced social ability. Fascinating question: why can't we all have the mutation? There's no downside to being affable, is there?137.205.100.252 (talk) 10:02, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I would definitely says there is a downside to William's syndrome. Children with William's syndrome tend to be all too trusting of strangers and thus are extremely vulnerable to exploitation. John Alan Elson ★  WF6I A.P.O.I. 14:38, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

This page seems to have a variety of issues
I don't actually know anything about the topic, so I can't handle most of the edits necessary. However, I have a few examples below of excerpts that I, as a lay person, found obviously questionable (the bolding is my own). The "Social and psychological" and "Treatment" sections seem to be especially problematic. Compare the quality of this page to articles over better known conditions such as ADHD or Autism (which themselves aren't perfect, but are much better).


 * The whole page needs updated language. I mean seriously, including this note at the end when the article literally uses the term "elfin" in the first paragraph is pretty bad:

"In a review of the symptoms and features of the syndrome, Laskari, Smith and Graham emphasized that some family members of individuals with Williams syndrome typically reject use of terminology such as 'elfin', as well as descriptions of social symptoms as 'cocktail party syndrome'. Physicians, family members of individuals with Williams syndrome, and Williams syndrome associations alike have called for the curtailment of such terms."


 * Unscientific and/or unsourced claims:

"While these children often came off as happy due to their sociable nature, often there are internal drawbacks to the way they act. 76–86% of these children were reported as believing that they either had few friends or problems with their friends. This is possibly due to the fact that although they are very friendly to strangers and love meeting new people, they may have trouble interacting on a deeper level."

"Behavioral treatments have been shown to be effective. In regards to social skills, it may be effective to channel their nature by teaching basic skills. Some of these are the appropriate way to approach someone, how and when to socialize in settings such as school or the workplace, and warning of the signs and dangers of exploitation. For the fear that they demonstrate cognitive-behavioral approaches, such as therapy, are the recommended treatment. One of the things to be careful of with this approach is to make sure that the patients' charming nature does not mask any underlying feelings."

"Perhaps the most effective treatment for those with Williams syndrome is music. Those with Williams syndrome have shown relative strength in regards to music, albeit only in pitch and rhythm tasks. Not only do they show strength in the field but also a particular fondness for it. It has been shown that music may help with the internal and external anxiety that these people are more likely to be afflicted with.[53] Something of note is that the typical person processes music in the superior temporal and middle temporal gyri. Those with Williams syndrome have reduced activation in these areas but an increase in the right amygdala and cerebellum."


 * This one is both unsubstantiated and rather alarming in what it implies - if there are sources for this, it should not only be included but probably deserves its own paragraph or section:

"the statistic for exploitation and abuse was unavailable. This last one is a significant problem. People with Williams syndrome are frequently very trusting and want more than anything to make friends, leading them to submit to requests that under normal circumstances would be rejected."


 * Statements that are weirdly specific and fail to actually summarize the sources they draw from (and this seems to be one of the most rampant issues on this page actually)
 * Generally just writing with compassion. The Autism and ADHD pages have a section on "Management" rather than "Treatment", for instance.

2600:6C40:280:5D46:D928:D590:956D:A81E (talk) 12:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree - the usage of 'elfin' tripped me up when I read through. The source used cites a paper written in 1999 (and a couple from even earlier, too) as evidence of the term being used, so not too sure it's appropriate to put right in the lead, at least not without more qualification. I've gone ahead and tentatively removed it --Condimentary (talk) 21:00, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Life expectancy
From a cursory review of material on the net, there seems to be great variation in estimates with many sources suggesting that with proper supports it's not diminished. The entry uses a 2010 source for diminished by half, probably relying on studies conducted earlier. Shouldn't there at least be acknowledgement that estimates vary? ```` XFLQR (talk) 04:55, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

image title
can someone PLEASE edit the first image caption. whoever did this, you are not funny. sincerely, a special education student 89.210.21.253 (talk) 17:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)