Talk:Willie Apiata

Merge
Suggest that this page be the main page for this individual, given it's length already, and the fact that the other page really only requires categories and links to redirect to here. PalawanOz 01:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

yeah, fine. But the Bill(W) article is a bit of a mess. The citation is a cut and paste, and the bio is too long. . What do you think this page has that the other one needs? Right now, on reflection, I'm thinking the other one is the better page, and the merger should go the other way around Kripto 01:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I decided to be bold and went ahead with a merge here. In my opinion both articles weren't that great, since this one consisted mostly of copy-and-pastes. If anyone isn't happy, feel free to revert. Evil Monkey - Hello 02:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Start classification
I have classified this article as a start due to its level of detail. Capitalistroadster 03:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't the page be under Bill Apiata as that's his name. Willy is a nickname. Littlerascal 05:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Query - Is his name really William? (Have put a redirect on William Apiata in any event).  Great job to get this up so quickly guys - hope it goes in News. Winstonwolfe 05:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the official bio, he is not "William" but "Bill" on his birth certificate.
 * I would support a move to "Bill Apiata", as that is how he is referred to in the media kit released by the NZDF PalawanOz 06:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Good research. Support decision to name article Bill, but as curio note his army name tag on the news read "Willy". Winstonwolfe 06:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Requested move
I've moved the page. Evil Monkey - Hello 01:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Willy Apiata → Bill Apiata — Change to name as per birth certificate, rather than nickname —PalawanOz 01:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support PalawanOz 01:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Littlerascal 03:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Neutral, since there seems to be a mixture of Willys and Bills . Though a weak support given what the Army has given as the name. Evil Monkey - Hello 08:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Due to the Army's use of the name and it is his official name. Woodym555 09:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Proper names should be used in preference to a nickname. Anthony Staunton 09:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That isn't Wikipedia policy, which is to use the most common name for a person. Evil Monkey - Hello 09:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

How many New Zealand VC winners?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,2117116,00.html states 6 other. meaning 7, while http://www.geocities.com/heartland/Park/7572/nzvcross.txt claims 21, although it is a little out of date.


 * The correct statement should be that Bill Apiata is the 22nd New Zealander recipient of the Victoria Cross. This is the correct figure as stated by the New Zealand government and army in its press pack relating to Bill Apiata. More references and information can be found on the Victoria Cross for New Zealand page. Thanks.

(n.b. I took the liberty of correcting the spelling of your title) Woodym555 13:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, i shall put that in, p.s sorry about the typo, i was tired. Blacksmith2talk 04:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm still a bit confused... it says he is the first to recieve the NZ Victoria Cross and then a few lines later "He is the 22nd person to be awarded the New Zealand Victoria Cross". This means 22nd New Zealander to be awarded VC right?? Sorry, I know Im missing something obvious but... 192.43.227.18 07:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it --- he was the 22nd NZer to receive a VC, not the 22nd person to receive a New Zealand VC. Evil Monkey - Hello 07:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

My congratulations to Bill Apiata at being the first recipient of the Victoria Cross for New Zealand. Since New Zealand no longer participates in the Imperial (or British Commonwealth) Honours System but awards medals under the New Zealand Honours System I think it would be more accurate, although more cumberson, to say that Bill Apiata is the 22nd member of the New Zealand forces to have been awarded the Victoria Cross or the Victoria Cross for New Zealand. --Anthony Staunton 13:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a discussion at the moment on the best way to describe this award on the Talk:Victoria Cross page. If you would like to share your views please do. Thankyou Woodym555 13:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Date on first reference
I have expanded the reference on the first cite(nzgovpresspack), and noticed that it was retrieved on the 1st yet written on the 2nd, is this a fault of the government mistyping, or releasing earlier, if the New Zealand government released it as soon as it was July 2nd for them. The Wikipedian who retrieved it must be on a far east(near the date line) pacific island and retrieved it around 11pm. Please not i was not the origanal retriver of the reference. Blacksmith2talk 04:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I was the original retriever, you can of course now change the date retrieved, it is there as a means of checking the link is not dead. The award was announced early morning NZ time, to UTC it was still 1 July, the retrieval date is per UTC. Sorry for any confusion. Thanks Woodym555 09:13, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * ignore half of what i said before, i was thinking backwards, and not in a good way, i think i mixed up the dates in my explanation.Blacksmith2talk 09:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Other Te Kaha VC winner
In Te Kaha it says Moana-Nui-a-Kiwa Ngarimu was also awarded the vc, should this be included in this artixcle?Blacksmith2talk 08:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Date
It was announced he would get the VC on July 2, since then he has just had the ribbon, on July 26 aprox, ~(It was on todays news, that it had happened), he received the medal.Blacksmith2talk 06:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Maori Service
Should there be a link here to the 28th Bn RNZIR?

http://28bn.homestead.com/home.html

And in particular as that unit was the "Maori" battalion and also shows a Victoria Cross?

Jim Duffield 21:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Photo
I have uploaded a photo of Willie Apiata VC that I took when he visited my school a few weeks ago. It was his first "public" apperance since he was awarded the VC. Aarhap 07:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you putting the photo on the page? What filename did you upload it as??PalawanOz 08:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the name of the image is IMG 8404 (Medium).JPG. I forgot to change the name before I uploaded. Still trying to get used to this thing.Aarhap 08:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Would you mind if i uploaded it to commons? Woodym555 09:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem Aarhap 19:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have uploaded it to commons. it can be found at the following link:http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bill_Apiata.jpg or commons:Image:Bill Apiata.jpg. I took the liberty of changing the name. Hope you don't mind. Woodym555 20:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, thanks. I would have done it myself but I have no idea how to yet. Aarhap 20:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just add my thanks for getting this image. Always nice to see a free use image on biography articles. Evil Monkey - Hello 02:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NZGSMAfgPrimaryRibbon.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposed change
The present article states:

Corporal Apiata is one of only 10 living recipients of the Victoria Cross and the only living New Zealand recipient. He is the 22nd member of the New Zealand Armed forces to be awarded a Victoria Cross.[1]

I propose the following:

Corporal Apiata is the first and only recipient of the "Victoria Cross for New Zealand". There are no living New Zealand recipients of the (Imperial) Victoria Cross last awarded to a New Zealander in World War 2. Between 1864 and 1943, 21 members of the New Zealand forces were awarded the Victoria Cross including Captain Charles Upham awarded a bar to the Victoria Cross in 1945 for gallantry in Egypt in 1942. Anthony Staunton (talk) 21:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Be bold. It sounds accurate to me. Remember to source it. Woody (talk) 22:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:EastTimorRibbon.jpg
The image Image:EastTimorRibbon.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:


 * Image:NZOSMRibbon.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --08:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair Use Rationale added to image PalawanOz (talk) 09:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposed name change
I propose moving this article to Willie Apiata which is the name he is known by and uses, and is the obvious name people would use when googling him. Precedents are Jack Hinton (John Daniel 'Jack' Hinton VC), Bill English (Simon William "Bill" English) and even former US president Jimmy Carter (James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr). Also, Willy is not his nickname, but the name he uses every day of his life. To specify Willie as his nickname here, would require us to specify Jimmy as Carter's nickname as well. Apiata's nickname in the NZ Army is Mudguts, but I don't propose we record that. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 00:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

rank
why this guy is serving in army for about twenty years, he is VC recepient, but still he is only CPL ? why he didnt get battlefield commision ? or at least sergeant ? its a little bit... wierd ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.48.174.35 (talk) 06:15, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 2

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:49, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Bill Apiata → — Relisted since the link pointed to an old discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:00, 19 June 2010 (UTC) Most common name should be used, as per MOS:NAMES. Adabow ( talk )  11:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I reckon Willie is his common name, and he does seem to be known by the New Zealand Defence Force and the army as Willie:. Fences  &amp;  Windows  13:00, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reversion
I have reverted an addition to this article which under a heading "Citatiion's missing details", said the following "Concerning the citation, writer Nicky Hager says "The most obvious sign of the block on information was that the Victoria Cross citation did not even include the usual details of where and when the act of bravery occurred." Hager uncovered those details and revealed the gunfight occurred in the early hours of Friday, June 18, 2004, in a remote part of dry and mountainous central Afghanistan, north of Kandahar. Continuing, Hager writes, "If there were secrets to protect about the June 18, 2004 gun battle, they were that it had little to do with fighting terrorism or making Afghanistan a safer or better place. In the years following these New Zealand patrols, central Afghanistan became more hostile and dangerous, not less." Conspiracy theories 1.01.

Hager says he uncovered details of where and when which were not included in the citation.

Rubbish. The citation actually included the following words -- "...Apiata was, in 2004, part of a New Zealand Special Air Service (NZSAS) Troop on patrol in Afghanistan, which laid up in defensive formation for the night. At approximately 0315 hours, the Troop...". Moriori (talk) 00:55, 16 September 2020 (UTC)