Talk:Wim Hof

Trimmed material
I'm pasting material I removed from the unnecessary "Media appearances" section here, in case editors would like to use the sources to pull some content. Please be aware that most are primary sources.

Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I think these are relevant for the readers, so I don't think this should have been removed. 85.144.218.187 (talk) 10:55, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The best path forward to restoring this content is to find secondary sources that cover these appearances. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 12:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Meditation
In this edit, I removed benefit claims about WHM sourced only to its own website. This was followed by content about the benefits of meditation cited to sources that do not mention WHM. I read this a improper synthesis and have tagged it as such. How do other editors feel about this content? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:31, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I agree. I removed the past about meditation being beneficial as pure WP:SYNTH. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:17, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This should not have been done, as it is clear that these are not contested and actually scientifically endorsed.
 * I would like to make sure that moderators take a close look at the edits from this year, and potentially last year last months, as it is clear that it might be one person: scott carney, trying to wreck this page. As he is also a pseudo journalist, he is probably writing from various fake accounts. 95.97.158.198 (talk) 12:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Records are suspicious
The claims of "world records" are suspiciously unsourced. According to Hof's website he has 21 Guinness world records, and yet there is no official list, and there is only one current record (the marathon in Finland). It is possible that Hof did have records at one point, but there is no master list of what those records might have been. In addition, the record of most people "simultaneously doing breathwork" is a single local news source, and does not seem to be corroborated by Guinness--or another other record agency I'm aware of. The entire record section seems superfluous and I think it might be better to just delete it entirely since 1) it's poorly sourced and 2) is it really important? Either way, the formatting is terrible and the section on The Wim Hof method also needs to be deleted or fleshed out. Switfoot (talk) 20:28, 12 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I suspect again that this is removed by a fake account, headed by SCOTT CARNEY
 * Please moderators, could we take a look at all of the edits of this year? 95.97.158.198 (talk) 12:22, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Quotations
I added an over-quotation template to the Wim Hof Method section, because the text is mostly quotes. On top of that, it has the back-and-forth style of two opposing editors each trying to have the last word. I will try to condense this section, remove the long quotes, and trim it down to only the higher-quality references once I have time to vet them. As it now stands it's a mess of competing references. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 03:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I removed the part about how a survey asked how the Wim Hof Method had improved peoples' lives: a) who cares, and b) the only reference was to YouTube, an unreliable source. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 03:28, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I decided to be WP:BOLD and greatly condensed the Wim Hof Method section, removing most of the quotes and some of the less-relevant studies, as the section was a laundry list of low-quality studies of Hof's method, mostly citing primary sources. I took out my earlier over-quotation template since that problem has been fixed.  I tried to make it clearer that data on Hof's method is conflicting and equivocal and leave it at that, rather than burying the reader in highly technical direct quotes, but left in a couple of concrete example studies.  I think it reads much more cleanly now. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 19:31, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you have trimmed it in such a way that a lot of relevant information has been removed. I would ad a summary of each research, and also make sure to correctly quote as well as list the interpretation of the results of the studies. For Example, the most important result of the 2014 Radboud study is not that it decrease pro-inflammatory markers, but that it proved that everybody can indeed influence their autonomic nervous system and immun system. I will ad a few sections, to make sure that this text is either corrected or added on. The edits made have causede the text to be more complicated for the reader. 85.144.218.187 (talk) 10:54, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As this is a MIT study, I think you have trimmed the text in such a way, that you are removing relevant sources. I am not sure why you keep trimming the text, but it seems to be a little suspicious. Please make sure to trim only the part of which you talk about here. 85.144.218.187 (talk) 10:57, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Recommend Protecting this Page?
A user named Ilsebeckenpower is repeatedly making changes to this page that are clearly self-promotional. I recommend that we lock it to protect it from vandalism for 30 days. Switfoot (talk) 16:50, 5 August 2023 (UTC)


 * All of the edits were removed, just because it was not properly sourced. 85.144.218.187 (talk) 17:46, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems there's more vandalism going on. Several recent edits by @aquatic ambiance removed well-documented links to alleged Wim Hof Method related deaths as well as re-instated the claim that Wim Has 26 Guinness world records. The source was the Daily Mirror (a terrible paper) while Guinness (the original source) only has one recorded. Switfoot (talk) 22:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you Swiftfoot, again a fake SCOTT CARNEY accounbt?
 * I suspect you are.
 * Moderator, I would like to make sure that all edits of this year, are to be revised, as it is clear that this is all done by Scott Carney usin g various fake accounts. 95.97.158.198 (talk) 12:23, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Scott Carney is editing the page: please remove his last year's edits.

 * my suggestion is to remove the last year's edits

It is clear that a person Scott Carney, is trying to wreck this page by: 1. removing facts 2. Adding himself to make himself relevant 3. Adding inaccurate information only with the object of trying to spin the tex.

Moderators, please make sure to look into this. 95.97.158.198 (talk) 12:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I do think the Carney content in the lead was misplaced and undue, and I removed it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 12:27, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 September 2023
Change:

At least one person has died from a heart attack after cold-water immersion.[32]

TO

At least one person has died after cold-water immersion.[32]

-

If you look at the source of the article, a heart attack is not mentioned. I don't see it any other articles about the issue either. Jefeljefe (talk) 14:23, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:51, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The person who died of cold water immersion in the UK was not doing the Wim Hof Method, but were training with an Oxygen Advantage instructor and the coroner said it was from a cardiac arrhythmia (aka heart attack). I don't see a reason to include this death on Wim Hof's page, but it could go into an article on cold water swimming. See this link for reference: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/27/coroner-cold-water-immersion-regulation-kellie-poole-death Switfoot (talk) 17:28, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Records
This is the compiled list of Wim Hof's Guinness World Records. Hof only currently holds 1 Guinness World Record (Barefoot Half-Marathon). He has set and then broken "Full Body Contact With Ice (Male)" 15 times (most of the time only adding a few minutes between talk show appearances). He was the originator of all the records he has participated in, and most were not competitive. Most of the dates mentioned in this current entry are inaccurate.

No other records that Wim Hof claims on his website match any other record keeping body. Nor are they even fully at what they even are other than a number (WimHofMethod.com claims 26 total world records).

Wim Hof legitimately only has ever held 3 distinct Guinness World Records. Switfoot (talk) 16:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Lack of scientific research
There are more relevant studies than the one listed here. 2603:7081:800:5DF2:81C:AA65:D41F:F77D (talk) 06:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

correction to claim about Hof's Guinness World Record for Barefoot Half-Marathon
The Guinness World Record Book website now reports that on February 18, 2024, a new record for the barefoot half-marathon was set (1 hr 50 min 42 sec). Thus, the statement that Hof holds this Guinness World Record is outdated.

Here's the source: https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/fastest-half-marathon-barefoot-on-icesnow 71.163.238.68 (talk) 14:44, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Method-related deaths section is full of misleadings
All references on method-related deaths section has been checked, they are all misleading. None of the links/references entered has proof (not even claim) that any of deaths was correlated with the method itself. One reference does not even talk about the method at all and is obituary to 17 year old guy passed away. Well, it is clear that whoever added this section to this article is not only biased but has a calculated campaign against Wim Hof. Kraxmalism (talk) 06:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I completely agree. Moreover, random people dying due to their mistakes in their application of the WHM is irrelevant to Wim Hof as a person, and the cases of their deaths should not be attributed to Wim Hof himself. These cases being listed on his page (which, by the way, due to its brevity, stand out very significantly & disproportionately) imply that these people's deaths are to be immediately attributed to him. As a parallel, let's imagine all of the premature deaths of, e.g., Marlboro-consumers caused by their consumption of Marlboro cigarettes -- will their deaths be listed on the Wikipedia page for the founder of that brand? Likewise: should cases of death caused by ordinary (meaning, not due to faults in the technicalities of the car) car-accidents pertaining to cars of a specific car company be listed on the Wikipedia article for that car manufacturer? Will the cases of death by jumping off a given bridge be put on the Wikipedia article for the person (assuming he has one) who made the construction of the bridge come into fruition? It would be nonsensical to do that, since the deaths were either initiated by the given person's own volition or incidentally took place due to an error that they performed by themselves (in this case, doing the breathing exercise while submerged in a body of water). I say get rid of that section completely. Polynilium (talk) 13:54, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Early Life Experiences
Wim's childhood stories of brushes with hypoxia and hypothermia are relevant to how he arrived at his understanding of the benefits of breath work and intentionally facing uncomfortable temperatures. He discusses this in The Wim Hof Method and I believe they are much more important to this page than discussions of what seem to be ambulance chasing law suits. He is clear in his book that both hypoxia and hypothermia are dangerous and he does not recommend that others try such things as falling asleep as a child in an ice cave or meditating in or under water, let alone his more dare devilish performances.

With that said, it does seem relevant to talk about the death of anyone while under his leadership, whether directly or indirectly via his certified instructors. He pushes the envelope and it's important to understand the risks involved when doing breathwork around water. However, the say of one man who appears to have a vendetta against Hof would not be sufficient evidence, in my view. Require clear evidence both in documenting Hof's claims and in providing criticisms. Mmoeglein (talk) 01:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)


 * The origin story in his book "The Wim Hof Method" does not match the origin stories in his other books--"The Way of the iceman," "Becoming the Iceman" and "What Doesn't Kill Us".  Let alone what he says in podcasts. While you can use them as sources, triangulating the truth is tricky.
 * As for deaths--all deaths related to the method are relevant. Absolutely people dying under his direct supervision are the most important, but saying that other deaths should be ignored would be like saying deaths from painkiller overdoses should be ignored unless they were done under the direct supervision of the pharma company.  Wim Hof teaches his method to millions of people and if he is going to get credit for the benefits, he also has to be responsible for the negatives. Switfoot (talk) 14:38, 16 April 2024 (UTC)