Talk:Winchester Mystery House/Archive 1

Floor Plans Wanted
I always wanted to see floor plans; are there any? Can somebody put a link if they find them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.164.161 (talk) 00:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

More images
On the house's official site there's a page of photos of the house, including an enormous photo of the house when it was still 7 stories tall (and one of Sarah herself). The page states:
 * All photographs may be duplicated, but
 * credit for photographs must be given to:
 * Winchester Mystery House, San Jose, CA.

What do others say about adding some of these to the article? It could only improve it. :-) &mdash;Frecklefoot 14:59, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)


 * Sure, if there's permission (and it seems there is). I'll add it to my "to do" list, but someone else will probably do it before I find time to do it. - Bevo 15:15, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

If I can figure out the coding, I'll do it. :> [Larien]


 * You can look here for information on how to use the image syntax. :-)  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:09, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Visit...
I'll be visiting it soon, I'll take some pictures. I plan on doing some EVP-recording there if they let me. :) ---J.S (t|c) 21:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

1
An awful lot of smiley faces for a haunted mansion ;}--Old Guard 05:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Historical Accuracy
Much of this article seems to copy from the "official" story of the Winchester House, most of which cannot be proven and can be disputed. Also, "Winchester Mystery House" is the commercial name of the property, and it obviously would have never been called this while it served as a residence.

While I haven't had a chance to read them, I know there are at least two Master's thesis projects in the San Jose State University library that dispute the validity of the Winchester Mystery House story.
 * I'm not sure that thesis projects themselves would be considered proper sources, but they may have bibliographies that point to other published sources. However, that sort of information would seem valuable to include if you can find a good source for it.  E. Ripley 02:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I had heard the "official" story is totally untrue. There were claims that for some reason she wanted to keep the construction workers employed. Sorry I don't have any sources. -- Lincoln F. Stern 20:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

For a quality historical reference, written by a historian, see Captive of the Labyrinth. http://www.amazon.com/Captive-Labyrinth-Winchester-Heiress-Fortune/dp/0826219055/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299816857&sr=8-1 This book refutes most of the official story, and basis its claims on research of original materials. This entire article needs to be rewritten to include the actual history. 71.237.32.224 (talk) 04:20, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

The supposed-haunting
Are there any reports of actual sightings in this place? They always associate this place with ghosts, but I have yet to hear any stories about actual sightings. It looks more like a rather eccentric woman's project than a place of paranormal activity. I've never heard of Mrs Winchester claiming anything aside that her medium told her to build this awful waste of money. As far as I've learnt so far, she didn't see any ghosts, and no one else has. The house was built, but it doesn't prove (or even imply) that there was anything paranormal about this place, and the only thing unusual about it is that it's a rather eccentric venture taken by a woman who was probably deceived into doing this by her "medium." But, I might just be wrong and those things might be under-reported. Does anyone know about this? J.J. Bustamante 10:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The gift shop at the house has hundreds of books about the history of the house and Sarah Winchester. One, by John Rambo (not the Rambo of the Sly Stallone films) is short and pretty good and dispells many of the myths surrounding the house (it's also all hand printed!).  I think the store would be a good place to look for books on sightings and such. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 13:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a legend that while she was trapped in her room during the earthquake, some of the spirits visited her. Supposedly, one of the wings of the house was too close to being finished (I think it may have been the western one, but I am not sure). As soon as she was free of the room, she ordered that the wing be boarded up. Of course, this is just a story told on the tours and I have no source regarding its validity.--Sidhebolg 00:18, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Taps did an investigation there. Its episode 211 "R.M.S. Queen Mary"

67.52.248.218 (talk) 20:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a New York Times, article from 1911 that would seem to confirm the basic story told about the house. The tour operators do pump up the supernatural angle. Seano1 (talk) 23:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

odd
I find it odd that this article makes no mention of the peculiar traits of the house. Just "the house had no master building plan"? Isn't it because the house is so strange that it is such an attraction? Novium 01:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Read the "The House Today" section; it contains information about the traits of the house. Vsst 00:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Images for article
Some orphaned images I found which might fit into this article: ~ Bigr  Tex  22:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Who owns?
CAN ANYONE name the present owner of the house? This is the GREATES MYSTERY at present.


 * I think it's owned & operated by the The County of Santa Clara Department of Parks and Recreation now. But, their website doesn't say. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 17:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's owned by a CA-based company, not by the state or local government. I worked at the WMH, and I STILL don't know who actually owns it! Dr. Mordecai 05:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Certified by US Government?
As being haunted? I didn't see anything about this in the article but while working at the WMH I was told that it is one of two places in California that is certified by the US Government as being haunted, the second place being in San Diego, I believe. Is there anywhere that this information can be verified? I'd really like to know if the Federal Government wastes it's time certifying places as haunted. Dr. Mordecai 05:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Cost of construction
The article states " [t] he cost for such constant building has been estimated at about US $5.5 million." Is that in 1922 (or earlier) dollars? What is the inflation-adjusted cost? BlueGuy213 00:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * According to this page, the adjusted cost would be $6,002,577.97, which seems far too conservative. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 18:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't get that CGI form to work properly. Still, if it's saying only $6 million then I agree with you, that's far too conservative. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which maintains the official website for the Consumer Price Index (the page you mention credits CPI as its source) has an inflation calculator too, and it says that $5.5 million in 1922 dollars = $68,255,654.76 in 2007 dollars. I would update the article to say so except that I doubt the construction cost was all paid in 1922. Most of it was probably done earlier, which means that there would have been even more inflation since the actual payment. Can we get a citation for the estimate? That would really help since it might reveal what years the payment was made during. I'll add the cite request. BlueGuy213 20:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, someone added the citation for the original cost, but it doesn't say when the cost was paid, only that it was $5.5 million. Also, the BLS website's calculator now gives a slightly higher number for the value in 1997 dollars. (I think this is because of new data added for this year.) So I have added this note, with reference to the calculator: "If this cost were paid entirely in 1922, it would be equivalent to almost $70 million in 2007 dollars." (I used "almost" instead of a more exact amount in case further data causes a subsequent change within this year.) BlueGuy213 (talk) 00:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

citation needed
"Although this is disputed, many believe[citation needed] the Boston Medium told Sarah Winchester that she had.. " shouldn't the citation needed be better behind the "told", as in "Although this is disputed, many believe the Boston Medium told[citation needed] Sarah Winchester that she had.. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.210.231.72 (talk) 09:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

2008 BLS data not available yet
Someone has changed "in 2007 dollars" to "in 2008 dollars", so I just linked 2008 to As of 2008 to help with keeping it up-to-date; but actually, the BLS has not provided any data yet for 2008. (How could they? January isn't even half over!) It seems reasonable to assume there will not be terrible inflation during this year, so it may not matter much; but isn't it a bit hasty to talk about 2008 dollars when the inflation calculator, which is the cited source, doesn't yet allow calculation for the year 2008?

Does anybody think we should change 2008 back to 2007 until more data becomes available? Or would it just tempt people who don't bother to read the talk page to "fix" it again? BlueGuy213 (talk) 04:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, it might be better to keep 2008 because this is the time that people normally do new year's updating. And besides, the figure was padded upwards somewhat anyway. Maybe it should be left alone unless and until significantly contradictory information is released. And it's not like this is an article about economics.

Still, I would like to hear what other people think. BlueGuy213 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 05:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Game levels
I took the basic tour with a group, and my first thought was, "Wow, this would be a great place for a deathmatch." Does anyone know if the Winchester mansion has been turned into a map for any videogames? I think it would make an excellent level for Half-Life 2 -- or Portal! --75.173.4.172 (talk) 23:15, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Haven't seen one but could make a suggestion that one be made —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.52.248.218 (talk) 20:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

We do NOT know the year of construction cost payments
People keep trying to simplify the phrasing of the inflation-adjusted cost by assuming that construction costs were paid in 1922. The references do not provide any evidence either for or against this assumption. At this point, I'm thinking it might be best either to let the assumption stand or maybe even remove the inflation-adjusted figures entirely because so many people want to "streamline" away the distinction... ugh! --BlueGuy213 (talk) 21:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate I'm coming along nearly 7 years later (a voice from the future?) It occurs to me that costs would have been met weekly/monthly. No matter which story is true, construction occurred over a long period of time. It makes no sense that payment would be made at any one time, but as an ongoing process. PeterM88 (talk) 20:08, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for calling attention to this. I checked the references, and it turns out we don't even have a source for the "construction cost" figure. The cited reference does not mention it. So I deleted the entire sentence. --MelanieN (talk) 20:42, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Horrible Article
Wikipedia articles should not be stories, they should be articles. This has second person narrative. Needs to be re-written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric1985 (talk • contribs)


 * Yes, that was due to vandalism by Thatdude008. Due to a lot of work by 24.14.156.34, the article's been restored to its previous state. Take a look at it now (or, if he vandalized it again, this revision). &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 13:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protected due to ongoing vandalism
I semi-protected the article due to ongoing vandalism. An unregistered user kept adding a personal speculation which was clearly OR. I kept removing, he ignored me and kept adding it back. I'll leave it protected for a while and see what happens. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 16:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Swamp Thing
I keep removing the following item from the "Popular Culture" section:


 * The Cambridge House in Swamp Thing #45, "Ghost Dance" (DC Comics, February 1986) by Alan Moore, Stan Woch and Alfredo Alcala, is clearly inspired by the Winchester House legend.

I removed it because it appears to be complete original research. The other items, while some quite obscure, at least explain how the Winchester house is related or was an inspiration. This item just says the Cambridge House is "clearly inspired by" the house. How? How do we know they're not just similar? Did the authors say as much? Did the builder keep adding to the house? Or is it just a large, creepy house? Provide some explanation, please. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 18:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Since 212.54.183.10 seems unwilling to discuss this issue, I removed it again. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 17:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

If this makes it more clear, since I was also wondering why the reference isn't mentioned. With the exception of the name change the Wincester House and the Cambridge House have the same backstory.

The comic story was about the widow of the man who invented the repeating rifle who had to have continuous work done on her mansion to accommodate all of the spirits killed by the rifle. A medium had told the widow that she would die the moment that the construction was complete. There were several mentions of similar features to the historic Winchester House including things being built in replicas of 13, false doors/windows/staircases to confuse the spirits and rooms built on false scale.

This doesn't mean that the myth about the Wincester House is any more fictional or that Alan Moore has stated that it was his inspiration. 99.253.252.153 (talk) 21:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Note that this item was re-added at some point by 71.233.247.18 (who is not me), but now has a citation to a web review whose author describes the story as being based on the Winchester House, and provides some reasons for thinking so. My only edit there was to improve the citation format, and to clarify that the house and its builder have a different fictional name in the story. I don't know if that'll be considered adequate or not— it's still not Alan Moore himself saying so— but if you search online for "Swamp Thing Ghost Dance" you'll find many other articles along the same lines (such as this: ); basically everyone who read the story and had heard of Sarah Winchester considered it to be a very direct reference. 24.5.71.95 (talk) 00:28, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry, 24.5.71.95 was actually me having neglected to log in. &#8592;Hob 19:39, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Opinions/original research
Removed the following from the Inspiration section:

"The last two statements are problematic at best and out right fiction at worst. If the statements were really made, why would Mrs. Winchester leave an extremely well documented and very detailed will? What is true is that Mrs. Winchester did move west, settling in California, where she began construction on her mansion."

No sources were cited posing the question, thus making it an editor's opinion on the matter.71.202.16.59 (talk) 03:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio
I removed a large section which appears to be cut and pasted directly from http://www.prairieghosts.com/winchester.html. This site claims to hold the copyright to the language. (© Copyright 2001 - 2008 by Troy Taylor. All Rights Reserved.) Perhaps another set of eyes could look into this as well. XF Lawtalk at me 04:28, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

13
I want to point out that when the House was built, 13 was a patriotic number, not a supernatural number. 65.198.31.114 (talk) 17:54, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Got a ref for that? Though, I can see that: 13 original colonies and all. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 18:48, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The Mansion tour ends, if I remember correctly, by going down two or three steepish steps. There is (or was) a sign on the exit door warning, "Watch your step."  My niece, probably 7 or so at the time, suddenly exclaimed, "Look!  The sign has thirteen letters!" Kingsfold (talk) 19:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Her motivations?
I'm a little puzzled that her motivation in the article is implied to was be that she wanted to appease the spirits by building the house as large as possible so they could live with her? When I was a kid, I read somewhere that she hoped to hide from and confuse the vengeful spirits, hence things like stairs that lead nowhere, windows that look onto walls, hidden doors and so on. It's not just a mansion renowned for its "utter lack of any master building plan"- which implies that it was just poorly built. Unfortunately, I can't find the name of the book, so I didn't make any changes. 69.251.182.45 (talk) 01:38, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

This is wrong. She built the mansion to build the mansion. She was Wealthy. Think Bill Gates rich. If you go on the tour they explain many of the oddities as logical design choices: small steps, glass bathroom doors, etc. I will dig up my reference, a book by Ralph Rambo who grew up in the area around the turn of the previous century. He had met Sara Winchester several times and knew of her local behaviour. As I recall he states that she was a nice woman although very private.

Robert.Harker (talk) 01:43, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

The reason why she did this is that she was cursed by the spirits because she married into the Winchester's family and the ghost said that if she didn't start and never stop she will live so that is why she kept adding to her house Kittycat45596 (talk) 21:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Weasle wording?
"many bizarre and nasty adornments"
 * just curious... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.223.56.226 (talk) 20:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Way too much story telling
I'm bothered by the amount of space and detail given to multiple accounts of her supposed conversations with mediums and motivation for building the house - in the "inspiration" section. Some of these stories are debunked within the article, and others are duplicative of each other. And modern scholarship seems to think the stories are all nonsense. What would you all think of trimming that section to a paragraph or two, eliminating the long duplicative quotes, and including the alternative (non-paranormal) explanations for the oddities of the house on a more equal basis? --MelanieN (talk) 23:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

What's say we revert the whole thing to when it was a unfinished eight-room farmhouse in Santa Clara Valley? I mean thats the most established fact here so that seems only logical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.69.62.232 (talk) 01:09, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It's likely that the last 50-100 edits have warped the overall structure and a rebuild/cleanup is warranted. Do think there's enough "meat" in the article to just edit it in place or should we create a Sandbox page and start from scratch? --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 01:30, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Winchester's Mystery Is Made Up
Check out the research about Winchester Mystery House in a tell–all book, "Captive of the Labyrinth," where author Mary Jo Ignoffo lays out her research and findings about the biggest deceptions surrounding one of California’s top and most profitable private tourist attractions. Winchester House was apparently first rented to and then sold to carnival workers, the Brown family, whose descendants still own the attraction. The carnival folks knew how to entrance the public when they concocted crazy but untrue tales of 38 years of continuous construction and Sarah Winchester's ghosts due to 'guilt' over gunned-down people due to her company's rifles. In the wild west era, it was likely pride, not guilt that she harbored. Not true that the house looks the way it did prior to the 1906 earthquake that collapsed the top four floors. The doors and stairs that lead to nowhere are actually sealed-off damage from upper floors where repair was abandoned. Nineteenth century Spiritualism was very much in vogue and likely enjoyed as entertainment socially in the mansion's fancy salon; but the supposed private seances are sourced to a propaganda article published much later. Post-earthquake Mrs. Winchester moved elsewhere, never returning to the damaged mansion; and she lived her life nearby to her closest relative, a niece in San Francisco, who became her sole heir. Patricia Forsyth (talk) 19:44, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * That's fine to add, but that's just ONE source. Numerous other sources say otherwise. Make sure you ref it appropriately. &mdash; Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 15:19, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The book and the author both appear very legit. However, to echo the above, it is just one version.  As the hokey weird version is the more accepted knowledge, that is what the main thrust of the story must be.  This source certainly deserves mention as another viewpoint for sure.  I think I need to find the book.  Sounds very interesting. Gtwfan52 (talk) 16:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Patricia, Sarah Winchester’s eccentricity is not some “after the fact” invention to market her house as a tourist attraction. She was regarded as eccentric in her own lifetime.

In 1911 “The Salt Lake Tribune” stated that “she had received a message from the spirit world warning her that all would be well so long as the sound of hammers did not cease about her”.

In 1908 “The Hawaiian Gazette” said that “her spiritualistic tendencies which lead her to believe a medium’s tale that she would only live so long as she kept in her home”.

In 1911 “The Hawaiian Star” said that she is “the eccentric widow of the inventor-president of the Winchester arms company, is seriously ill at her home in San Jose. She is a spiritualist. During the twenty years she has lived in Santa Clara County she has never appeared in public”.

Contemporary sources seem to attribute her odd behavior to her spiritualism, while the claim that the house was built out of “pride” and not due to some sort of spiritualist belief runs contrary to the contemporary sources. Mary Jo Ignoffo’s book seems very much like a “creative re-imagining” of Sarah Winchester which does not appear to be supported by historical evidence. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 02:46, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


 * There are no real ghosts living in the house? No way. Come on, this needs no specific explanation. People can believe what they want to believe, we just report. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 07:26, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

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Hello Neighbor by tinyBuild
I decided to revert the edit that said Hello Neighbor by tinyBuild was based on the house. While I don't doubt the truth of this (given the video theory), I don't consider a YouTube video a credible source. If anyone can find something in the news, a gaming magazine, or a published interview with tinyBuild, please feel free to add the content back in. --LibraryGurl (talk) 01:12, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Gilmore Girls Reference
Someone added a pop-cultural reference to the Gilmore Girls: A Year In the Life episode winter. I am not entirely sure it's correctly listed. One, it's not actually a reference to the house, but to the Winchester mystery family. I kept it incase someone else has an opinion. Is the reference to the family or the house? The link for the citation is to a recap that quotes the reference. Feel free to delete. --LibraryGurl (talk) 17:54, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

New room from 2016
I visited the house and took a tour a few days ago. I asked about a new room discovered within the last decade. I said I didn't see how something like that could be discovered only recently unless the article was inaccurate. By the tour guide's expression halfway through my question, I knew it was false. She said the article was inaccurate.

The tour guide said that another tour guide wrote a tongue-in-cheek article about their shooting gallery and the media ran with this as sincere and they've been fighting the media about this ever since. Somebody should edit the article to explain this. Here is a source: http://www.winchestermysteryhouse.com/plan-your-visit/sarahs-attic-shooting-gallery/ Please feel free to poke around the internet until you are satisfied with this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.24.3 (talk) 18:40, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Rose Red
Should it perhaps be added to the poöular culture section that the most famous work directly inspired by the Winchester House is Stephen King's Rose Red?

I quote; ''"During the preparations to shoot Rose Red, King and a crew from the production company actually visited the Winchester House in hopes that they might be able to do the filming at that location. Unfortunately, they found that most of the rooms were too small to do any creative filming there.

''After reading about the Winchester House, the story of a “never-ending mansion” stuck with King and he thought that it might make a good idea for a novel. He became intrigued by the idea of a house that was actually bigger on the inside that the outside. Originally, the idea became part of a screenplay that King started working on in conjunction with Steven Spielberg. They wanted to make the ultimate haunted house film or as they referred to it.. “the scariest haunted house movie ever made”. As Shirley Jackson’s The Haunting of Hill House came up several times in the their conversations, King decided to expand upon his idea of the never-ending house and combine it with ideas from Jackson’s novel.''" https://www.prairieghosts.com/rosered.html

- Okama-San (talk) 18:10, 29 August 2018 (UTC)