Talk:Winsor McCay/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Diannaa (talk · contribs) 16:46, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Curly Turkey! I have started with some copy edits; please feel free to revert any changes you don't agree with. The article is in nice condition and doesn't need much to gain promotion to GA. Here's some items for your attention:


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose: clear and concise, correct spelling and grammar:
 * "Cycling" as an animation technique - it's mentioned in the lead. We have no article on this subject and the term is not defined. What if anything should be done?
 * Actually, there's a subsection on it at Traditional animation. I've linked to it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Considered McCay's masterpiece, its child protagonist's appearance was based on McCay's son Robert, and had fabulous dreams, interrupted each week with his awakening in the final panel. I think this should be split into two sentences as there's two subjects.
 * Split. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * McCay experimented with the form of the comics page, its timing and pacing, the size and shape of its panels, perspective, and architectural and other details. I found this sentence awkward and difficult to parse. How about "McCay experimented with the medium, working on timing and pacing, the size and shape of the panels, perspective, and architectural and other details."
 * Hmmm I don't like "working on timing and pacing". He wasn't learning the ropes, he was pushing boundaries.  Let me think about this ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * How about something like "McCay experimented with the medium, introducing novel ideas for timing and pacing, the size and shape of the panels, perspective, and architectural and other details."
 * Well, McCay didn't "introduce novel ideas for ... perspective, and architectural and other details", he used his mastery of these well-established techniques to experiment with the page. Let me think some more on this ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * How about: "McCay experimented with formal aspects of the comics page: he made inventive use of timing and pacing, the size and shape of panels, perspective, and architectural and other details."? Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, good, and similar to the way it's worded in the lead. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The quality of his drawings varied depending on his interest in the subject of the assignment, whose sentiments he often didn't believe in, and on events in his personal life, as in March 1914, when he was subjected to a blackmail plot by a Mrs. Lambkin, who was seeking a divorce from her husband. The sentence is too long; I have re-worked - please check that I have not changed the meaning.
 * Looks good to me. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Maude often complained over matters with her husband, but he refused to talk about the,. - something is missing at the end of this sentence.
 * Fixed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I have tweeked some more; please check and make sure it's okay.
 * B. Complies with MoS for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
 * Please add authorlinks to citations. For example, Donald Ault; Michael Barrier; May Berenbaum; Peter Bondanella; Dean Mullaney; please check the entire source list for more. I went ahead with this -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry! I totally missed that you had written this! Curly Turkey (gobble) 13:31, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Tables and citations are elegantly formatted.
 * 1) Sourcing:
 * A. Provides references, with in-line citations from reliable sources where necessary:
 * Material sourced to quality books and journals.
 * B. Contains no copyright violations or too-close paraphrasing:
 * Spot checks reveal no copyright violations or too-close paraphrasing.
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Main aspects are addressed:
 * B. Remains focused:
 * 1) Does it follow the neutral point of view policy?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * It was said that... Who said? Family members? please specify, or remove the phrase
 * Dropped. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * dingy boarding house Is it important that the boarding house was dingy?
 * I guess not. Dropped. 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * File:Robert McCay (1840–1915).jpg - Images not only need to have been created before 1923, they need to have been published before 1923 to be PD in the United States. If you have no proof the photo was published anywhere prior to 1923, it should come out.
 * Grrr. I guess I'll have to drop it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Petit Sammy éternue.jpg - Needs source information.
 * I've replaced it with a higher-quality file (File:Little Sammy Sneeze 1905-09-24.jpg) and source information. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Winsor McCay - Dream of the Rarebit Fiend (1909-06-05).jpg - needs more precise source information (url please).
 * Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:28, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:The Sinking of the Lusitania (Winsor McCay, signed cel).jpg - needs full url for source website, not just a link directly to the image. (possibly from here?)
 * Fixed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * Lavish and appropriate use of illustrations
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail: On hold for one week to complete tasks. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:32, 27 December 2013 (UTC) -- Pass -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * Lavish and appropriate use of illustrations
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail: On hold for one week to complete tasks. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:32, 27 December 2013 (UTC) -- Pass -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look at this! Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I do have a question about your copyedits: Why remove "Robert grew to become an artist as well." from the paragraph on the McCays' children? Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:34, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It's already covered earlier in the article, in the 1911–1921 section and again in the 1921–1934 section. Do you think it needs to be mentioned again? -- Diannaa (talk) 02:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmm&bnsp;... three times is excessive, but at the same time it clarifies the father-son relationship and shines light on the sister's feelings ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, some people might skip to that section without reading the intervening sections. So I have restored it. -- Diannaa (talk) 22:33, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Maybe I can work out a way to make it less redundant—I intend to take this article to FAC eventually, so feel free to split hairs as thin as you like. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I have taken a stab at it; see what you think. I am passing to GA. Suggestions for FA: The article presently relies a lot on one source: Canemaker. If you could find at least two more books on the subject, that would probably be enough to diversify the sources. And some of the information on the family presently seems a little too detailed, so if you could tie these facts into explaining his development as an artist and person, that would be great. Thanks for working on this level-4 Vital Article. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the review! I'm not sure if there are any other major sources of biographical details on McCay—it seems that every author and their dog relies on Canemaker (which means I'd be sourcing sources that source Canemaker—so many of those sources start with "According to McCay's biographer John Canemaker ...").  I hope to get my hands on a copy of The Poetics of Slumberland and expand some of the non-biographical aspects, though. Curly Turkey (gobble) 13:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can get a copy via inter-library loan. I could do so here in Alberta. Good luck with your FA quest, -- Diannaa (talk) 13:46, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Birth category
Does anyone have an objection if I change the existing birth category to 19th-century births and add a Year of birth uncertain category?; I think it's more accurate to use these than the current 1869 category. Please let me know what you think. Thank you.--FeanorStar7 11:02, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert on categorization, but it sounds reasonable to me. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:09, 8 February 2014 (UTC)