Talk:Witches (Discworld)

Links?
Should we redirect the 3 witch links to this page? Evercat 22:28, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sorry?
I got told off for writing nonsense on this page, and I assume it was for my link between Agnes being able to sing in thirds with herself, and Conker's bad fur day's Great Mighty Poo, who is also blessed with this power. I know it's slightly irrelevent, so what do we think?

Black Aliss being responsible for the sleeping castle...
Having just finished reading Witches Abroad today, I noticed something debatable on this page. Black Aliss is credited with putting a castle to sleep, but I thought it was made clear in Witches Abroad that the castle was put to sleep by Lily Weatherwax on her way to Genua. When everyone in the castle woke up, they said they had seen Granny before, which was wrong, as she hadn't been there before, but her sister must have been, for them to know a Weatherwax face. If this article is discussing a different castle then there isn't an issue, but if it is the castle from Witches Abroad, then a change should be made.


 * Black Aliss' castle is mentioned in Wyrd Sisters, as "the biggest thing she ever did" and I think it gets briefly mentioned in Witches Abroad as well. The way narrative causality is described in WA suggests that the various fairy tale cliches happen all the time, and that Aliss was responsible for all of them at least once. Hope that clears things up. --Daibhid C 00:07 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Magrat
I feel that it needs to do a better job of explaining Magrat's pronounciation. I have no idea about the distinction between "Magg-rat", "Maggrat", and "Magrat." --Yar Kramer 21:55, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It's TRUE! Vitriol 19:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

also on the topic of black aliss: They say she, aliss demurrage, might be alison weatherwax, but in the alison weatherwax entry they claim alison is not demurrage —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe conflo (talk • contribs) 21:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Splitting the page?
I think Agnes and Tiff deserve their own entries. Anyone else? Daibhid C
 * Since previously seperated pages are being merged with no discussion, I take it that's a no... Daibhid C 20:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Magrat's pronounciation if anyone has trouble with pronounciation of any discworld words or frases, please listen to the audio book from any library. This should clear things up, and be very enjoable too. (discworldfreek)


 * Depends on the audio. I'm pretty sure Tony Robinson pronnounces it wrongly.Daibhid C 20:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Agnes Nitt
Was she actually a vampire at the end of Carpe Jugulum? I seem to remember it being implied (she could only visit that chap after dark), but I don't think it's been mentioned since. --Mister Six 18:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

What about mentioning the possible (in light of the above comment, maybe I shouldn't say "dawning") understanding between Agnes and Pastor Oats at (or after) the end of Carpe Jugulum? -- jalp 107.192.44.27 (talk) 03:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Voodoo
Which book is that reference from?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Witches Abroad, ISBN 978-0552134651 - Alec.brady 18:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Black Aliss is NOT Alison Weatherwax
I've pulled this out:

There is also a vague hint in the books that the two are related, however Esme reveals her grandmother's name was Alison in Carpe Jugulum). Her name derives from the mythical Black Annis, a cannibalistic hag from Leicestershire, who was often used as a threat to children to behave, though it may also be a parody on the names of two heavy metal bands Black Sabbath and Alice Cooper in contraction. Since it is stated in The New Discworld Companion that Alison Weatherwax may be alive, and some have speculated that Black Aliss is immortal (Because she is so powerful), there has been speculation that Black Aliss, aka Alison Weatherwax, is still alive and will be featuring in I Shall Wear Midnight. This is, however, dubious at best.''

Rampant speculation, at one point contradicting the books (we know Aliss Demurage is dead). Daibhid C (talk) 15:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Split?
How come lesser characters, such as Twoflower(!), have their own pages, but Magrat is stuck sharing? Also, there are already separate pages for Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg, so this page is redundant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.157.188.81 (talk) 21:12, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Bibliography?
When re-reading the books it's nice to have a bibliography to tell you which to read next - the City Watch page has one of these and it's helpful (apart from monstrous regiment being in there for some reason), so why not have one on this page? or is there one I missed?

Extended reverts to Discworld witches
I reverted a host of changes Serendipodous made to the Discworld Witches page. I'm sure it seemed like Original Research to him/her, and, in truth, I was wavering on whether or not it was OR myself when I added the info, but I decided it wasn't, and here's why:


 * In A Hat Full of Sky, towards the beginning, when Tiffany is discussing heading to the mountains for her training, she mentions her prowess with cheese and how every witch finds it convenient to have a known non-supernatural talent. The exact quote: "You weren't allowed to charge money for the witching, so all witches did some other job as well".  So Glenda has that quality.  Throughout all of the Witch books and the Tiffany books, it is often talked about that the great majority of witchcraft is helping those who can't help themselves, being on the borders, etc, etc.  So Glenda has that quality.  Granny Aching's inclusion as a witch, by both the wikipedia editors and Pratchett himself(through Granny Weatherwax) and, in-universe, Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg, shows that you don't have to self-identify as a witch to be a witch.  So Glenda has that quality.  In the Tiffany books, second thoughts and first sight are described as witchly qualities.  In Unseen Academicals, Glenda often thinks about how she's thinking, particularly with the whole crab bucket theme(Second thoughts), and clearly sees only what is there/can see through illusion, as shown most clearly by her reaction to the fashion industry(First sight).  So Glenda has that quality.  Finally, both Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax(and possibly others, I'm too lazy to look), that are on the Discworld Witches page have their own articles as well, so that's not a valid argument for excluding Glenda, especially since her article doesn't mention that she's a non-self-identified witch.


 * Tiffany remarks, in I Shall Wear Midnight, how stressing it is that her steading includes the entire chalk. Letitia is the very definition of a maiden.  Amber's gift of understanding qualifies her as the mother archetype.  That only leaves one witch and one role, and given the many parallels drawn between Granny and Tiffany throughout the Tiffany books, it's not OR to describe her as the same role in the coven as Granny has in the Lancre coven.  Lastly,jJust because the group of chalk witches is not officially a coven(meaning by Pratchett's directly designating them one) doesn't mean they're not a coven in fact(meaning coven as in a group of connected, in this case geographically connected, witches).

Please note that all of my additions were made solely based on what Pratchett himself has stated about witches and/or the characters concerned and, as such, does not qualify as OR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.170.106 (talk) 09:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

First sight, second thoghts
I think this should be included somewhere, since it plays such a large part in the Aching books and is portrayed as a predominant witchly trait. Not sure where, though, under Tiffany Aching or in the opening by headology? Thoughts?

Readding and rephrasing Glenda Sugarbean
Took out the word "seemed" because that was simply bad phrasing on my part; it's explicitly stated by Pratchett that she does those things. To fix the First Sight/Second Thoughts thing, I added Pratchett's definition of First Sight/Second Thoughts to the opening in the paragraph that talks about headology and then, based on those definitions, by the creator of the character and the concepts, also documented Glenda's possession of First Sight and Second Thought, with the most-talked about, by the creator of the character and the concepts, example of each. Please tell me that satisfies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.170.106 (talk) 21:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Glenda Sugarbean
Her classification as a witch has been challenged as speculation, with an administrator telling me I need a "third-party reliable source" in order to include her on the Discworld witches page. I'm unsure what he means by that. Pratchett is the source of all of the information I'm striving to add. Do I need to cite page and book for each piece of information in my addition, despite the fact that no where in the rest of the article is this done? Addition I want to make is as follows:

Glenda Sugarbean Though both Glenda Sugarbean and her mother, characters in Unseen Academicals, are never explicitly labeled witches and don't, to our knowledge, self-identify as such, both do have many of the traits commonly seen in Discworld Witches. Recalling Tiffany Aching's "excellence with cheese" and Petulia Gristle's excellence with pigs, both are magnificent cooks, with Glenda being particularly known for her pies. Additionally both operated as combination social workers/nurses/surgeons/doctors in their communities, another witchly trait. Glenda has also had instances that are the same as First Sight--seeing behind the illusions of the fashion industry being the most notable-- and Second Thoughts--the theme of the crab bucket being the most notable.

Point by point breakdown: -"never explicitly labeled witches and don't, to our knowledge, self-identify as such" If this is a disqualification for being on this page then Granny Aching needs to be removed, because she was never explicitly labeled a witch and didn't self-identify as such either. -"do have many of the traits commonly seen in Discworld Witches" All of the traits, which were listed after, were explicitly said to be Witchly traits by Pratchett, throughout various of the books. -"Excellence with pies" It is said explicitly in Hat Full of Sky that every witch doesn't charge for the services she provides to the community and as such, has secondary skills to bring in money. -"combination social workers/nurses/surgeons/doctors" It is an omnipresent theme throughout the witch books and Aching books that this is the role that witches play. It is also explicitly mentioned in Unseen Academicals that this is the role Glenda plays. -"instances that are the same as First Sight" The definition of First Sight I gave, which is up above in the opening, is a paraphrasing of the definition Pratchett gives, and the seeing behind the illusions of the fashion industry was an incident in Unseen Academicals. With a few slight detail changes, the same statement applies to Second Thoughts.

So, again, where exactly is the speculation in there? Are you honestly saying that Terry Pratchett, who created the world, the character, the series, and the concepts that are and are of Discworld is not a credible enough source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.170.106 (talk) 07:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)