Talk:With Apologies to Jesse Jackson

Tolkien?
It's Token. As in token black friend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:9E8:9B30:C000:B13:B5AE:C0FE:32A8 (talk) 23:48, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

goofs
none of the listed are goofs. south park is a tv show. it is not supposed to be just like real life. a goof(i dont really think an encyclopedia should contain goofs, have you ever seen it in the britanica?) should be shit like cars being different colors in scenes and the like thanks


 * Yeah, I'd have to agree with you; but you're gonna' have to take it here. ≈  The Haunted Angel  02:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Number of South Park Episode's that used the Term Nigger
I know this isn’t the first time South Park used the word nigger in an episode. Does anyone know the total number of South Park episode's that have included the term nigger?

A record "nigger" usage?
If there's a place that can find such records, I'm pretty sure this episode has used that word uncensored more than any other TV episode. PLEASE someone do some research. Brilliant episode btw. Toastypk 03:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Can't wait to see how Jesse reacts tomorrow morning.

I seriously doubt this is the record, 42 is impressive, but it probably not the

42 is always the record. ~ EdBoy[c] 03:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Though it's OR and I can't add it to the article, I find it funny that it's said 42 times, which just so happens to be the Answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Everything... Maged123 05:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not OR if someone finds site documenting such records, right? Toastypk 15:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How can it be original research if everyone in the world can almost without effort verify what you're saying?--Roofle 16:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless Trey or Matt say anything, it's OR, plain and simple. Maged123 23:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm firmly sure that The Boondocks holds that record, but i'm not positive. --George The Man 18:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, it's the episode Granddad's Fight, without counting the times when the word is displayed on-screen, this episode uses the word "nigga" 65 times — tops among first season episodes. I'm only guessing this is the most for a TV show. The only show i can imagine beating it would be Chappelle's Show, and that would have to be the first one, with Clayton Bigsby. --George The Man 18:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well dayyyam, I guess I was wrong. Toastypk 23:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible Nutty Professor joke?
When Randy is in the Laugh Factory it echos a scene from The Nutty Professor where the comedian on stage (in South Park it seems to resemble Dave Chappelle, who was actually in the movie) and instead of the fat jokes he uses the nigger guy jokes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.5.189.102 (talk) 12:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

No, the comedian sounds exactly like Chris Rock, and kind of looks like him with some facial hair. He was much darker skinned than Dave Chappelle.

With refference to Benjamin Zephaniah?
At the Cafe Viggo's (looks like Starbucks), Randy performs a poem that seems self-empathetic for his own kind. Speaking of how everyone has done wrong to him. Does that not seem like Benjamin Zephaniah? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.220.193 (talk) 01:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there's a few poets who do that sort of trite stuff. Benjamin's just the most "famous" of them. I think Randy's poem itself was parodying that sort of thing. It was big in the 80s. That and the "words are bullets". Those wacky neo-cons! 92.40.253.245 (talk) 12:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

No plural?
I believe "naggers" actually is a word. If a person nags, he is a nagger. If a group of people nag, they are naggers. You can't apply a word to one and not all, the English language doesn't work that way. Also, the source is unreliable. I say strike it out. 72.240.163.8 14:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, it is a word. The noun can be pluralised. Gaijin84 18:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * However, the idea that "the English language doesn't work that way" doesn't hold much weight. For every "rule" in English, there are at least a handful of noteworthy exceptions (and since we're talking about pluraizing nouns, think about plurals of mouse vs house and goose vs moose to understand what I mean). - Ugliness Man 04:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

"Naggers" can be found at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naggers. I propose that the statement that "naggers" is not a "real word" be removed. --65.43.209.36 22:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I would tend to agree. I also don't really see much point in including the "word not found" link to dictionary.com. 00:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

so until some wanker at harvard decides naggers is a word, no one in the world is allowed to say naggers? a word is a series of sounds one makes with their mouth and is understood by others. if i say naggers, im pretty sure that people understand what im on about, regardless of whether harvard says its a word or not. is it against the law to say naggers?


 * Well it's already only one letter away from being illegal :-)


 * It's 4 letters away to be illegal. needs the letters G, U and Y at the end too.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.249.240.157 (talk) 14:53, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Uh, saying nigger isn't illegal yet, thank God

I think that wiktionary.org is more reliable than dictionary.com, so I removed the entire bit about naggers not being a real word.

The Oxford English Dictionary (http://dictionary.oed.com, for subscribers only) lists:

nagger, n

A person who nags; something which nags at or bothers one continuously.

And more illustrative, the quotations, which include 'naggers' multiple times:

1881 Spectator 22 Jan. 109 The Irish are naggers. 1895 Daily Tel. 17 Jan. 5/3 Naggers always labour under imaginary grievances. 1926 W. DE LA MARE Connoisseur 194 His brother's wife, Fanny, had been a nagger. 1958 R. K. NARAYAN Guide iii. 35 My mother was developing into a successful nagger. 1982 J. MAY Many-coloured Land (1985) II. xiv. 228 There's this little nagger in the skull that hints at horrible things happening to us if we try to escape. 1997 GQ 53/1 It is one of those naggers which keep us awake at night.

Someone who nags is a nag, a group of people who nag are nags. Naggers is not a word.Try looking up Naggers in the Oxford English Dictionary its not there. 65.125.163.221 09:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Wheel of Fortune trivia
I think it should be noted in the trivia that the board at first is the "touch" one, that lights up blue and just requires a touch. However, when Randy solves the puzzle incorrectly, Vana turns the missing letter, which is what the old board was like. I just don't know how to word it all that correctly. 69.121.67.198 20:23, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Who the hell cares?! --Simpsons fan 66 01:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No one. You've responded to a comment that is a year old. --Captain Infinity (talk) 01:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Cartman & Dr. Nelson
"Cartman always refers to Dr. Nelson as an "it", rather than "he"." This statement isn't actually true. Cartman refers to Dr. Nelson as a "he" when he says "look at how its face goes red. He's like a little strawberry!". Just thought I'd bring it up. -Sybaronde

Good morning or hello
Dr. Nelson tells the children to say hello fatso to cartman but they say good morning fatso. :-) It must be a mistake or something.

Youtube
How can this be:

Somewhat coincidentally, a video of Mr. Marsh saying "nigger" was released on Youtube and, in the week following, was one of the highest watched videos.

...when it's not the following week already?

Also: please point us to the video which is "highest watched" on youtube...


 * The one I saw yesterday and downloaded is now off youtube because viacom sucks and doesn't want South Park things on youtube. Nethertheless, there's more up now. I doubt it's highly viewed. But it ending up on youtube to begin with was inevitable. Toastypk 17:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

awesome! I was really lookin for the song, which was played during the fight, thanks for the article ;)

greetings from austria

Trivia
I accidentally hit the wrong button on my keyboard and submitted my edit without explaining myself, so I'll just do it here. Though the term "nigger" being used 42 times in the episode may not be too notable, the part about the closed captioning is. Thus, that item was re-added.

No reasoning was given for removing "During the Wheel of Fortune round, when the first few letters appear, they are blue and Vanna touches them to make them appear. When the A in NAGGERS pops up, however, Vanna turns the panel, a la the game's old format.", so I also added that back.

Feel free, however, to remove these again if you actually provide some good reasoning. Maged123 00:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding trivia.. another thing: "When Randy Marsh chooses four letters for the final Wheel of Fortune round, he choose B, N, G, and O, which spell bong.". I think you could also say that Randy wants to spell the word bingo just without an i 134.99.36.64 23:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No that doesnt make any sense at all


 * Randy's not trying to spell anything. He's requesting letters that he hopes will fill in the puzzle.  That's the point of the game. Captain Infinity 01:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I had noticed that as well and was debating on whether it was done intentionally or not. I had added it earlier on to the trivia but someone else removed it. ArtimusClydeFrog 03:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I was curious at the end if the white senator was supposed to represent Ted Kennedy? anybody else?--24.174.98.215 05:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

On the FAQ on southparkstudios.com, they indicated that Trey did the voice of Dr. Nelson and used a helium tank to get the effect. Just wondering if anyone else thinks its worth adding. ArtimusClydeFrog 03:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Draws parallels to the UK Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy?
In the cultural refferences section it says:"The episode draws parallels to the international incident created by the UK Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy". What is the basis for this cliam? the big brother UK scandal to my knowledge involved an indian housemate who accused some of the other castmates disparaging her indian backround and causing her distress. it does not seem remotely related to this episode. should we relate every instance of racial discrimination to this episode? i beleive it should be removed.70.51.112.179 04:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's ok, some people just aren't very intelligent. Of course it's unrelated, I would be surprised if anybody in the States even heard of it considering how few people over here have heard of the Michael Richards incident. --JamesTheNumberless 16:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems neither of you are aware that Jade Goody USED Poppadom as a racial slur, "on national television", which pissed off a lot of the British public. I don't think anyone can safely say Parker and Stone were writing with this in mind, but I don't think you can really say whoever put that up is "unintelligent".  I mean, I've heard so little about the US's reaction and influence to the Danish cartoons controversy compared to any other country, but that got mentioned in a South Park episode. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cyberdude93 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Disturbed
Does anyone know what the point was of using "Down with the Sickness"? I mean, if it was a recent song, I'd understand Matt & Trey wanting to put it in there somewhere coz maybe they're fans, but we're talking about something that was released seven years ago, so I'm thinking there might be something about the song that has something to do with the story or some of the dialogue. Sure, it could be some random joke with no actual meaning, as such a thing isn't foreigh to South Park, but I'd like to know of there's an inside joke I'm missing. Any insight would be appreciated. - Ugliness Man 04:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe they like the song. Professor Chaos 21:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it was used during a fight sequence in The One. That might have something to do with it.  Or they've just gotten too lazy to write their own original music.Mustang6172 02:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's kind of amusing how desperate some people are to find meaning and cultural reference in every aspect of every South Park episode. Trivia sections are often full of such tenuous speculation, my eyes don't stop rolling for weeks. --JamesTheNumberless 16:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed trivia section
I have removed the trivia section, added a new "continuity errors" section and removed the following points for now:


 * The episode was so controversial that it was featured on CNN. The episode is praised by some black viewers and groups for its representation of the discrimination blacks face at the hands of the N-word.
 * The term "nigger" is used 42 times in the episode, all of them uncensored, except in the initial few runs' closed captioning, which changed every incidence of "nigger" to "n-word" or "n-guy", except Randy's original utterance of the word. Later runs had the captions uncensored.

Both these facts are interesting and are worthy of being put back into the article, but the first one needs some references, and needs to be more fleshed out (for instance, it would be good in a "Critical response" section) with other responses, while the second should be put somewhere else if it will go there. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 12:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The points are errors, but not continuity errors as such. How about changing the section title to "Goofs", in line with some of the other Southpark episode articles? Ayecee 13:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * "The episode was so controversial" sounds like a bit of a bold claim. Yeah it caused some controversy, but it seems like you are blowing it out of proportion. ArtimusClydeFrog 01:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

BINGO
My respect for other editors' contributions has been called into question, so I will attempt to explain why I rm the addition of "BINGO" as a relevant piece of trivia. I have 3 reasons, although any one of which is valid for removal of the comment. 1) It doesn't fit the reality of the situation. Randy is not playing Bingo; he is playing Wheel of fortune.  He's not spelling a word; he is guessing letters which he hopes will solve the puzzle.  The word he needs to spell is NAGGERS, Not BINGO.  The missing letter is not "I", it is "A". 2) You're projecting your impressions onto a pattern.  BNGO doesn't spell BINGO, it spells BONGO. No, wait, it spells BANGO! Or maybe Randy is trying to spell BUNGHOLE? Nope, none of these is correct, because it's all coming out of thin air. There is no BINGO. You're seeing things and MAKING IT UP. Which leads to point three: 3) It's ORIGINAL RESEARCH. No citation has ever been supplied that shows Matt and Trey planned to spell BINGO, or any other word except NAGGERS and NIGGERS.  If anyone can provide a citation that says they planned BINGO then clearly the comment would be valid and should be included.  Until then, it's all speculation, it's a made up "fact", it's Original Research...and as such it has to go. Captain Infinity 09:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep the "BINGO" speculation out of the article, unless someone in an official SPS capacity says it's legitimate. It's original research, it's unverifiable, and it's unencyclopedic (like most of the "trivia" in these South Park articles). Professor Chaos 01:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

pro bingo
Well, ficitional character Captain Infinity, it is about time that you finally explained yourself. I have added my opinion on March24th, was later erased, and restored on March 27th, was later erased and restored on March 31st. was later erased and restored on April 2nd, was erased and later restored April 12th, was later erased and restored on April 13th. Now once again erased.

As to the three points that your have advanced.

1) "not reality." Well let's take a look at the word play on the show. The entire premise of the show is that a benign word (naggers) was confused with the malignant "n word" The writers of the show did a brillient job of word play of finding a word play that could result in that incorrect word

2)"you are projecting your impressions on a pattern" As to your statement that BGNO does not spell BINGO . There is one letter missing from the final pattern. That is the letter "I" On the show, once again the writers had brilliant word play. There was only one letter missing from  the final clue  "N-missing letter-G-G-E-R-S. The letter "A" would have spelled the benign word "naggers"  The only letter missing from "BINGO" would have added the letter "I" to spell that malignant word.

3)"It's not original research" As I have previously said "Don't you have respect for opinions from other contributers?" 100% of the contributions on Wikiepedia are not just simply repeats (copy &paste) from other sources. The value of internet forums like this are the opinions of other people.

Let's let all the people look at this and decide for themselves whether or not my opinions have any credibility.


 * Your opinions do not matter in the least. This is an encyclopedia, and it deals with facts, not opinions. You clearly do not understand Wikipedia's policy on Original Research.  I suggest you read No original research.  If you continue to question my good faith edits I will have no choice but to bring this to a Request For Comment. Captain Infinity 21:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Claffey27, as can be seen by your edits, comments, lies and insults here, you obviously do not intend to contribute to Wiki in a helpful manner, but instead seek to cause disruption. As such it is pointless to try to debate with you, and I will no longer try. Captain Infinity 16:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Claffey27, saying that your opinions don't matter in the least doesn't mean your edits don't matter in the least. What it means is that your opinions or anyones opinions have no place in an encyclopedia, especially when states as if they were facts.  Saying that Matt and Trey used brilliant wordplay, whether true or not, is an opinion.  In my opinion, the only joke contained in those words was that you're supposed to think, as Randy did, that the word is "NIGGERS," and be surprised that it's "NAGGERS," but be kicking yourself for not seeing it.  "N" and "G" were necessary to set up the joke, "B" and "O" were throwaway letters because he needed to guess three consonants and a vowel.  Nothing more complicated than that.  That's just my opinion, however, and belongs here on the discussion page and not in the article, just like your longshot speculation about "BINGO."  Sorry, but that's the way it is.  Professor Chaos 01:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section - keep or delete?
I have restored the Trivia section. As of today (April 14, 2007) there are only 6 items of Trivia in it, which makes it relatively small compared to other trivia sections in other articles. I believe that the trivia items contained therein are notable and valid for inclusion in the article, yet would be difficult or unwieldy to integrate into the Synopsis or Plot sections (however, I invite anyone who is willing to try, of course). According to the Trivia Cleanup Project, not all Trivia sections require complete deletion, and I believe that this one adds to the article and should stay. Any other opinions? Captain Infinity 16:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I say delete per WP:TRIV. --98E 21:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I say don't. I came to this article just because of the trivia. Deleting it was a stupid move. I like to know what references a show has.
 * Delete per WP:TRIVIA. -- L A  X  00:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Read WP:TRIVIA especially the "What this guideline is not" part and put the trivia back. Thank you. 131.188.203.167 (talk) 21:22, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Dr. Nelson's voice actor

 * Sounds more like Matt Stone to me. -- Cyberspace 15:42, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * But southparkstudios.com is more reliable than what something sounds like. --98E 21:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Missing cultural reference?
Is the line that Cartman forces Dr. Nelson to say a reference to anything? The one about not going into the light? Mac  OS X  19:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a reference to the first Poltergeist film, in which Zelda Rubinstein (a woman of small stature) uses the phrase to entice the restless spirits within the haunted house to "cross over" into the "light". The family's daughter, Carol Ann, is warned not to go into the light, as she is still alive. Captain Infinity 10:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Just got rid of this....
Somebody put something like "call 179466843 now" or something and I just deleted it. I don't think phone numbers are a place for Wiki articles. Cheeze Master 17:04, 6 October 2007 (UTC)Cheeze Master


 * It's called "Spamming". 21:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Nelsonvscartman.jpg
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BetacommandBot 15:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Original Research
"This episode's initial few runs closed captioning changed every incidence of nigger to n-word or n-guy.[original research?] Later runs had the captions uncensored.[original research?]"

Probably not noteworthy, but...
In this episode, there is a shot of a newspaper with Randy Marsh "apologizing" to Jesse Jackson. Underneath that image, there is about 3 paragraphs of text that appear to come straight from the Jesse Jackson article.--Rockfang (talk) 07:34, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Why are you people surrounding nigger in scare quotes or italics?
I guess you missed the point of the episode. I mean, its understood you're not saying it to be racist. You're just giving the word more power with your scare quotes and italics. On its own, without context, it has no power. Well, at least you're not saying n-word. Utils (talk) 13:54, 17 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It's not like that consistently. I think nigger is only in speech marks when it's quoted (like saying, 'With five seconds to go he reluctantly answers "niggers" on live national television'). Later on in the article when we're just talking about the word itself, it's not in quotes. The italics are usually there to add more sense to the sentence, though. I think it could be easy to have a confusing sentence otherwise. I don't think anyone's doing it to avoid racism. —  Richard  BB  14:11, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

"he reluctantly answers"
Don't know if we saw the same epidode, but for me it looked more like "wholeheartedly". --79.214.51.206 (talk) 18:00, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

"s*****"
I noticed somebody edited the word "stupid" to read "s*****". This is an encyclopedia. Please refrain from doing this in the future. LegalUsername (talk) 13:39, 26 December 2020 (UTC)