Talk:With the Beatles/Archive 1

Cover songs
Would it have been too much trouble to stub some of the cover tunes here ("You've Really Got a Hold on Me", "Please Mr. Postman") with info on the original hit songs, so that an unknowing visitor can learn who performed the most notable versions of those records? I apoligize if this sounds liek a rant, but my blood almost boiled when I clicked "Please Mr. Postman" and wond up here. --FuriousFreddy 14:27, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * If someone adds a Beatles stub for the song Please Mister Postman I'll add some info. There's no way i can fit it into the link that's there now.

Song linking
Perhaps some songs should not just link back to the album? I searched for "Not a Second Time" to see if there'd be any interesting factoids, and just got this page about the album. However, there are other stubs set up for individual songs, and it seems to me it'd be better if individual songs did not link to the album containing them. Also, "Little Child" is the name of an unrelated popular recording by Eddie Albert and Sondra Lee (yes, THAT Eddie Albert and his daughter) that folks could also be searching, and this redirect would make even less sense for them.

Lyrics Links
The following discussion was posted on Wikipedia's main Beatles discussion page, and appears to also be relevant here:

Are links to lyrics sites appropriate? I have noticed them in some music articles, and I believe they do add value to the listings. I added one at the bottom of the external links section. In the interest of full disclosure, it is a website I maintain. If the interest is positive, I would likely add lyrics links to other musical articles where appropriate. Shadar 19:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that lyrics sites reprint lyrics in violation of copyright, and that's why we're not supposed to link to them. The relevant guideline to check would be External links, but that page doesn't directly address this question.  I'm going to post a question to the discussion page there, and perhaps someone can tell us whether my idea is correct or mistaken.  In the latter case, I'd be happy to restore the link myself. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I posted my question Wikipedia talk:External links. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If the decision is made that lyrics sites are inappropriate due to the copyright violation issue, I would like to delete the links I found. As a newbie, it would give me good practice in editting. Is that an appropriate action for a new user, and is there a FAQ on deletion etiquette? Shadar 19:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, we received an answer, and it refers us to item #2 at External links. It comes down to whether the lyrics are actually under copyright or in the public domain, and whether or not the site in question has the copyright holder's permission to publish the lyrics.  If you'd like to remove links to lyrics sites that are in violation of our copyright policy, then you're welcome to do so.  The best way to avoid offense is probably to mention the External links policy (or WP:EL, as we like to call it) in your edit summary. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I can certainly understand that decision. It turns out I violated the self interest clause anyways, since I posted my own site. I should have recommended the change in talk, and then if someone agreed they could make the change. Thanks for the help with this, GTBacchus. Shadar 17:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I notice that there are also links to lyric pages on each of the Wikipedia Beatles album pages. I should have time to fix those tonight. I'll follow the above advice of GTBacchus in mentioning the WP:EL, and refer to this discussion on each album discussion page. InnerRevolution7 02:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I have made the above-stated change. InnerRevolution7 03:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Money
Ummm...Well, on the album, it's listed as "Money," and not "Money (That's What I Want)." We should thus list it in the article as "Money." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.140.218.179 (talk) 00:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, we know the album cover can sometimes be wrong, most notably for the medley of Kansas City and Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey. We can't trust an album cover that much. The sources need to be more reliable. Democraticmacguitarist (talk) 17:15, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

scaruffi
he's no longer on the professional list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums, so we can kick his review out.


 * Wrong. Although your removal of Scaruffi reviews may be done in good faith, please note two important points about your rationale for deleting them. First, WikiProject Albums is a project page, not a policy page. Secondly, WikiProject Albums is not an exhaustive list of acceptable review sites. In fact, the introductory sentence to the section states: "The following is a list of some websites with reviews or links to reviews that you can use in album infoboxes" (emphasis added). It does not prohibit any review site (except those listed as Non-professional or Non-English). I'm not arguing for or against the quality of Scaruffi's reviews, just that your rationale is not policy, only your opinion. So you need to discuss on the articles' talk pages and wait for consensus before removing Scaruffi reviews, or come up with a much better rationale. Scaruffi reviews are linked on a lot of pages, so I think you will encounter some problems by unilaterally deciding to remove them without consensus. Thank you. Ward3001 (talk) 21:05, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

ok sorry, so i'm for kicking the guy out, because his reviews aren't professional, he just writes what he thinks and what is his opinion without any sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.196.255.43 (talk) 21:07, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You need consensus to do that. Basic Wikipedia policy. Ward3001 (talk) 21:09, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Recent consensus at WP:ALBUM seems to suggest he is no longer "approved"; whether he is as far as "deprecated" is moot, but that is current consensus in that project. -- Rodhull andemu  21:11, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that his reviews should not be considered professional, and seem to be made for self gain as opposed to trying to base them on a certain level of objectivity and consistency. --Miczilla (talk) 10:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Cover photo
What about the fact that the cover was inspired by John and Paul giving the photographer some of the aesthetic low-light indoors pictures taken of them by Astrid Kirchherr back in Hamburg and say, "That's it, that's how we want you to do it!"? I'm also pretty sure this cover in turn inspired Lester for some distinctive lighting style in A Hard Day's Night here and there that became kinda ideomatic for monochromatic shoots after the movie. --79.193.70.211 (talk) 00:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * These are some of the low-light indoor photos by Astrid that I particularly refer to:    Isn't there a striking resemblance to the style of the photo used for the cover of With the Beatles? --79.193.104.147 (talk) 19:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposed spelling change in track listing to "You Really Gotta Hold on Me"
I notice they spelt it differently from the Miracles' "You've Really Got a Hold on Me", and that therefore both track listing here and infoboxes there reflect the different spellings. However, I also notice on the 2009 replica album cover of With The Beatles that it should in fact be "You Really Gotta Hold on Me". I've corrected the spelling accordingly. PL290 (talk) 15:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. The spelling is "You Really Got a Hold on Me".  McLerristarr  |  Mclay1  03:50, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * So your 2009 replica album cover is different from mine? How surprising! I've just had a look at an old EMI cassette I happen to have of the album (TC-PCS 3045)&mdash;that too lists the track as "gotta". But if it really appears differently in different places, we must find a definitive source so as to know how to list it here. Suggestions anyone? There must presumably be a precedent for this. PL290 (talk) 08:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 1st pressing: erroneous "Gotta", subsequent pressings: corrected to "Got A" (http://www.jpgr.co.uk/pcs3045.html). Wrapped in Grey (talk) 09:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Move
While we're at it, on related articles Paul McCartney, Sgt Pepper, etc., it's time to move this one to With the Beatles, is it not? Rothorpe (talk) 15:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL!  R ad io pa th y  •talk•  23:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I support Rothorpe on this one, and I find Radiopathy's response to be uncivil and hostile. ~ GabeMc  (talk 00:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Regardless of the way those discussion(s) turn out, no. This article will not need to be moved because the title of the album uses initial capitals on each word. I believe this was discussed a while back. Evanh2008 (talk 02:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hostile and uncivil in what sense? It's absurd that this issue should infect all Beatles-related articles, and I was acknowledging the humour and irony in the suggestion.


 * For the record, my response is:


 * Opposed - this was discussed at some point, although not on this page. The title on the album cover is rendered in all lower case; the title on the spine, however, is rendered as 'With The Beatles'. "the Beatles" is not the name of this band.


 * And please redact your personal attack.  R ad io pa th y  •talk•  02:42, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. I was merely stating my opinion. It was not intended as a personal attack. Your response was mocking and childish IMO, of which I am entitled. ~ GabeMc  (talk 00:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * ...make that two personal attacks.  R ad io pa th y  •talk•  01:29, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, a check of this article's history will show that the issue has come up before, in the form of edit warring, and the article has always been reverted to it's current title.


 * Observations about particular comments do not constitute personal attacks. You are correct, Radio, and that should be all you need to properly make your arguments. You are not a spoiled child, you are an adult. Act like one. Evanh2008 (talk 02:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Evan, how do we identify the actual title of the album? My 2009 re-mastered version uses all lower-case on the spine. ~ GabeMc  (talk 23:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Beatles RfC
You are invited to participate in an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/The Beatles on the issue of capitalising the definite article when mentioning the name of this band in running prose. This long-standing dispute is the subject of an open mediation case and we are requesting your help with determining the current community consensus. Thank you for your time. For the mediators. ~ GabeMc  (talk 22:48, 17 September 2012 (UTC)