Talk:Within Temptation

Read
Sn0wflake: READ THIS PLEASE. About the official source of Unet, just check www.within-temptation.com (look where the chat points at, etc) or the Umbranet. grtz, the WT hostmaster. Please revert changes.

Interesting
It would be interesting if the maintained actually reads this... Put this chatnet on the Wiki, it's trivial history of the band. Or should we have ppl with more rights on Wikipedia to join this discussion?

Sn0wflake: Why is there a link to the official fanclub which is merely commercial in the sense that it doesn't have added value (hence, it gives the same info as on the WT mainsite) but only allows you to be on the member pages and the forum if you contributed admission fee. It's a commercial site. Maybe it's better to link with an independent and objective source on Within Temptation. Or AT LEAST add a message that one must pay for the official fanclub site...

Also, what most people don't know or underestimate: Within Temptation became big with help of the internet! The die-hard people of the first hour, community chatters at Umbranet who contributed a lot of their energy and time (advertising and voting for WT) caused Within Temptation to get airplay the very first time on the Cybertop50 in The Netherlands (remember the Ice Queen breakthrough?), followed up by some airplay on Dutch radio and these people caused several weeks airplay on VIVA+ TV through internet voting; introducing WT to the general German public). Therefore; this open community platform Umbranet (which serves more bands nowadays) should be mentioned in the wiki of this band. It IS part of WT history, and I think it's essential, if some internet things didn't happen, WT was most probably not known to much people outside The Netherlands nowadays and the bandmembers would retain their regular jobs. Don't forget your roots :)

By the way: the band officially calls itself "gothic rock", just check their website source. So one doesn't have to debate on the genre.


 * Hello. Searches on Google for Umbranet plus band names (such as Within Temptation or Ayreon return an insubstantial amount of hits. There is no mention of Umbranet on the bands' official websites either. Statistics for the channels also show low activity - relative to the scale of the Wikipedia. While I do not question that you are acting in good faith, Umbranet simply seems to lack notability to be included on the bands' articles. Official fanclubs, on the other hand, are what we call inherently notable. Which means they are notable by the very fact that they are official fanclubs. Contact me if you need further clarification. --Sn0wflake 20:48, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, please check out the official sits and see where the chat leads to. Check the list of chatters on the band websits, that directly comes from Umbranet. So there IS a mention on the official websites, because their OFFICIAL chat runs there... And this system is open, not like the official fanclub which asks a financial contribution (then please at least mention this on the wiki). Also noting, a few of the Umbranet people are directly responsible for mainsites of some of the bands listed in Umbranet. Consider it to be a framework.


 * This dispute can be worked out in a simple manner, then. You may add the Umbranet external link if, and only if, the band's official website contains a weblink to the Umbranet website. When you add the external link to the Wikipedia article, please write the URL of where the link on the official website is at the "edit summary" box. Cheers. --Sn0wflake 17:51, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I've removed "german". This is a Dutch band singing in English... If there is something like "german goth metal" then an explanation is needed what makes Within Temptation's songs "german goth metal" and not generic "goth metal". Shinobu 21:41, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This page is on my watchlist and I've seen "goth metal" edited in and out again for what seems like a million times. Since it is obviously possible to have different opinions in this matter, I tried to compromise by stating "goth metal / symph. metal". I hope this edit will give the article some peace. If you still feel inclined to change things, then I suggest discussing things here on the talk page first. Shinobu 17:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I actually edited out "goth metal" myself. Within Temptation is not goth metal. They lack plenty of elements of what it is to be goth. They are not dark or depressing. Their lyrics are about love, nature and fantasy, not darkness and despair. Their music is also light (for a metal band). Lenne 17:51, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Not dark or depressing? What about songs like "Frozen," "Forsaken," "Pale," "Final Destination," "Angels," "It's the Fear," "Our Farewell," "Caged"... The list goes on and on, and the thing is, while I personally know a good deal of the lyrics to confirm this, anyone can tell just from the titles that the songs are going to be dark/depressing. I think WT's music deserves the "gothic" label.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.92.106.83 (talk) 15:19, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Despite your shotgun approach to the situation, I tend to agree that Within Temptation cannot be considered a goth metal band. Perhaps "symhponic metal with gothic metal influences" is the ideal way to solve this problem? --Sn0wflake 18:36, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * But that's just the thing. They don't have gothic metal influences. If you can quote an article where they've stated they have gothic metal influences, or can give gothic metal influence examples from their music, I'd be for it. But right now, it's a no for me. Lenne 22:43, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

That "kursiefje" on "not" was uncalled for. Within Tempation's music can be seen as to agree with the definition stated in goth metal. The idea that "goth" means "dark & depressing" is in general not true.

That being said, music is something that is hard to define and classify. I know for a fact that a lot of people consider Within Tempation's music gothic to some degree or another and I don't think it's our job to judge in this matter - difference of opinion on this matter apparently exists. Editing out either of those opinions seems to me a bad idea. (It makes me wonder whether policy would allow that, now that I think of it.)

My intention was not to rekindle the Withing-Temptation-is-(not)-gothic-metal-debate, but to assert that differences of opinion exist and that we are tolerant to both sides. Shinobu 05:42, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Considering that the goth metal page lists Within Temptation as one of their bands suggests that it ought to be listed here. Personally I liked and agreed with the Goth/Symphonic categorization.  They sure seem like a hybrid to me. - MordredKLB 18:15, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Since goth metal is closely related genre, your choice) of symphonic metal, I don't think that this debate should really be occururing. What makes goth metal sound more depressive (I'm talking about bands such as Lacrimas Profundere and Theatre of Tragedy here) are the vocals, not the instruments themselves (which are most of the time tuned only a half-step down). Within Temptation does have gothic metal influences, but their main differential is Sharon den Adel, who sets herself apart from most female singers of the genre by using a different vocal style than other singers from the genre, despite singing in the same vocal range as them. So, to make my opinion clear, I stand by the "symhponic metal with gothic metal influences" descriptions, which respects all POVs. --Sn0wflake 21:05, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

From Symphonic metal:
 * Symphonic Metal is a subclass of the genre of metal music in general. It is characterised by its usage of a symphony orchestra throughout songs in order to add melody and texture to the heavy drums and distorted guitars of metal. The orchestra is generally kept in the background.

From Goth metal: Although gothic metal - like most metal subgenres - is difficult to classify, some main attributes have remained fairly consistent:
 * lyrics focus on a variety of subjects: religion and God, heaven and hell, romance, (gothic) horror, depression, bereavement, emptiness, and death. Typically, the subjects are set in a pre-20th century environment.
 * vocals are either sung by a male vocalist, female vocalist, or both. The male vocals are either in a deep tenor, or death grunt. Female vocals tend to be high and operatic, but sometimes sung in a regular tone with reverb usage for effects.
 * the guitar(s) and bass are often in minor key, but can also be slow and heavily distorted, as what would be heard in doom metal. Along with percussion (and sometimes synthesizers), the pace and tone is sometimes dependent on the performance of the singer or the nature of the song.
 * There are also (occasional) instances in which gothic metal crosses over into other genres, such as power metal and symphonic metal.

Maybe list it as a cross-over between symphonic m. & gothic m.? That would be consitent with Sn0wflakes "symphonic m. with gothic m. influences" while not explicitly defining where the focus lies, as this is debatable. Apart from that I agree with Sn0wflake's suggestion.

If I had known there to be so much debate on this, I'd have suggested this earlier, but perhaps a para's saying something like "W.T. can be classified sym.m. because ..., but also as got.m. because ...".

I think we should at least provide links to both genres (this is a pro of Sn0wflake's and MordredKLB's suggestions).

Wishing you all the best, Shinobu 22:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and was bold, but edit away if you disagree. Best regards. --Sn0wflake 00:43, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I'll leave it as it is, after all "I too don't pretend to have the truth on lease". Yours sincerly, Shinobu 03:30, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

On a Google search of "Within Temptation goth/ic metal" - 598,000 results were found, and a search for "Within Temptation symphonic metal" - 137,000 results were found. Although this may not be very accurate, seeing as most of the Internet is nonsense. However their first album 'Enter' should not be disregarded: it most definately IS gothic metal - Sharon's voice is wailing and melancholy, there's a death metal male vocalist, songs are much slower and generally much more depressing. The lyrics are focused on ghost, death, romance, emptiness, hell and darkness in practically every song. Indeed, it may even be considered as Gothic Doom. In Flames 19:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The swedish wikipedia says "WT is playing symphonic metal with goth-influences". What about that? I have only heard the album The Silent Force, and i dont consider it as goth. But, i have also heard some songs from another album, and it sounds much more as goth! But i think it is wrong to classify WT as "goth metal" and "goth rock". Why not add "symhonic metal"?

If the only album you've heard is The Silent Force, you should probably hear their back catalog (Enter and The Dance) to understand why they can be considered both Gothic and Symphonic Metal.Stargazer eternal (talk) 03:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree at all Within Temptation is metal. The band said they are rock, and even if you listen to "The Silent Force" and "The Heart of Everything", you realize it's way too soft to be considered metal - "The Heart of Everything" has even very few touches of symphonic metal music. Labelling is hard I know, but their music from "Enter" and "Mother Earth" to "The Silent Force" and "The Heart of Everything" is way too big. And I've never seen them as "Gothic Metal" at all, not even their first album and EP ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 04:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Popprijs 2005
GRONINGEN De Popprijs 2005 is gewonnen door Within Temptation. "Door deze groep heeft gothic metal in ons land een nieuw ijkpunt gekregen", zei de jury op het Noorderslagfestival in Groningen. Bron: NOS, 14-01-2005

Rough translation: GRONINGEN Within Temptation has won the Popprijs 2005. On the Noorderslagfestival in Groningen, the jury noted: "Because of this band, gothic metal in our country has gained a new reference point." Source: NOS, Jan. 14th, 2005

Shinobu 11:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Right thats good, when they have 'zilch' to go with Gothic Metal apart from steming from the genre. Leyasu 16:21, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

"Mother Earth" singles
The section regarding the Mother Earth album labels "Ice Queen" as the first single, however, the "Singles" section at the bottom lists "Our Farewell" to have come first. Which is correct? Their site lists Our Farewell as having come first, but I really don't know myself. The Son Of Nothing 23:45, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The singles 'Our Farewell' and 'Ice Queen' were released. &mdash; So I believe it was first Our Farewell. I'll correct it. Bryan 18:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Keyboards
There is a little mistake in the article, the intro says that Martijn Spierenburg was at the formation of WT, while the dates given lower in the article states that Ruud's brother Martijn Westerholt was at the formation, and left in 2001, being succeeded by Spiereburg. As Spierenburg is now the keyboardist in WT, and Westerholt did leave WT in 2001, I corrected the article. Bryan 14:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Say my name, Overcome
Overcome and Say my name are bonus tracks on 'Stand my ground' and 'Angels' Bryan 18:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Member
The article states that there is a new band member as per 2006, for doing growls. This is definately not true. I am one of the forum moderators for WT and have regular contact with WT's management. I was informed five minutes ago that the rumour you posted on Wikipedia is definately nonsense and should be removed immediately. WT is currently working on a new album which should be released by the end of this year, but no details on guest appearances by any artist on that album have been made public yet.

You can confirm my presence on the WT-forum by looking up my username there, which is the same as my username here.

El Barkhuysen 16:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Within Temptation & Nightwish
Hi, I'm Rosey and i have bought both albums. AND it is not true that within copies off from nightwish (rumor as usual) so i had to tellllll you!!!!!!! there's such a bloody fucking diffrence between them. HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHA go shit, have you read my shit page?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Harja (talk • contribs) 17:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Thank you for letting us know. Bryan 14:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ofcourse they aren't. AkiShinji 11:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh, of course there is a difference. They are not in the same genre at all!! / visse.

Image
The image of the group and the description is for the old lineup. Ivar de Graaf has been replaced by Stephen von Haestregt as written on the official site: http://www.within-temptation.com/content/tpl_general.asp?pid=700&mid=699

Singles list
The list of singles in the discography section of the article is ever-changing. Can anyone provide a definitive, sourced, addition that can end the editing and reverting? Erath 20:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I copy that. Can someone please give some reference to a real Charttable and remove the table listed here? The one listed is not recent/complete anymore (i.e. why is "Restless" and "Our Farewell" listed though there is no chartentry? Why is there a US column - though there are no chartentries in those? Why is there no entry in the number one hits summary though "What Have You Done" is listed as a number one entry in Australia?). 6 June 2007

new album leaked
seems like the new album have been leaked I downloaded it yesterday.. I hope they hurry up and launch it before its hype goes down, I am definitly getting this!! it's a great album to buy! Can't wait for the tour album/dvd :D I found the silent force tour better than the album, Sharon's live performence is amazing <3 87.109.247.115 19:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Quoting right from the top of the article: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Within Temptation article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject." You have also just admitted piracy on an open website which anyone can read. Erath 19:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * D! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.160.174.18 (talk) 12:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Discography changes
I was the one who made those changes in Discography, I just forgot to log in. AkiShinji 11:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Sources needed
I'm trying to make this into a well sourced article. I need some verifiable sources, especially on the earlier years of Within Temptation and on criticism from the metal scene on Within Temptation. If anybody has some, please post them here. Bryan 19:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The Chronicles of Spellborn
This is a new not yet released MMORPG from Within Temptation. I think it should be in the article.

See tcos.com


 * Ah, it's not by Within Temptation. The band only writes music for that MMORPG. And yes, it is mentioned in the article. Read closely and you will find the reference ;) Teo64x 15:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Mother Earth Tour
I've edited the date of release of Mother Earth Tour DVD, cause before was wrong: you've writed 2003, but it's 2002.. bye..--Donbu 14:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

All I Need
Might someone want to mention the All I Need single?

UK Chart
Why isnt the UK album chart included ? isnt it the third biggest ?? might be something to include? (Neostinker (talk) 00:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC))

Why is there Billboard charts if WT doesn't list in any of those? A little pointless if you ask me~, and where the sources for those charts? ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 04:48, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Release of Enter & The Dance in US
I can't find anything on the internet about the release of Enter and The Dance in the US. Even their discography does not mention it, nor can I find some press release on it. I'm tempted to think that the ref that is given in the article just imports them from Europe. -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 21:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I know they have the US versions of both CDs on amazon.com now. I'm sure many other online shops would carry the Season of Mist versions as well.Stargazer eternal (talk) 03:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

*Confused*
Why is their song "Blue Eyes" not mentioned anywhere? It's not on any of the albums, bonus tracks, EPs, or singles lists. I don't know where it's supposed to be or when it was released, sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.170.253.127 (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia is a good resource of information, but we don't hold all the answers. If you can find more information about the song, feel free to add it to the article. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you by any chance get that song from a p2p network? There are plenty of songs that get mistagged so it could be that you have a song by different artist that is tagged as being by Within Temptation. Offski (talk) 22:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Blue Eyes was on the extended edition of What Have You Done. -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 15:30, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It was also on the compilation album "Destroyed," which for some reason isn't mentioned at all on this page. Besides, it's pretty tricky to mistake Sharon's voice. Gamer 2k4 (talk) 04:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Yay for free images
Good that somebody has taken the time to remove those unfree images. Somebody has pictures lying around at the time WT brought out each album? -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 19:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit summary is pretty clear. These images fit better the articles about the albums or singles than here, or any discography list. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I put those images there in a November 2005 edit, which predates the stringent rules on non-free content by some eighteen months. I understand the rules as is and a change needed to be made, but to resort to the ultimate layman's excuse, "it seemed like a good idea at the time". Erath (talk) 23:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Genre
We should keep statistics about how much of the total edits to this article is changing genre. My estimation is at least 40%. Do we have a definite source for the genre? -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 08:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All genres in the infobox has sources but amateur Wikipedians and anonymous users keep on changing it. It says their old materials (Enter, The Dance, Mother Earth) are symphonic metal and goth metal, while the new ones (The Silent Force, The Heart of Everything) are symphonic rock and alternative rock, since they are too "soft" albums for metal. Also WT descrie themselves as "symphonic rock". All we can do is just reverting edits with no consensus and without sources.
 * With sources I meant reliable sources. -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 13:22, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, they have reliable sources.--Nazzzz (talk) 14:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, for my opunion, It is best to say just symphonic metal in the infobox, and explain other genres in the text. But, it says that "Their music is also influenced from alternative metal, being notbale on The Heart of Everything album.". Where is the source? I think it should be deleted. Amyway, is this OK with everyone?--Nazzzz (talk) 17:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm in for the symphonic metal suggestion. -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 18:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * They're not metal anymore.81.84.86.184 (talk) 20:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the following albuns are symphonic rock (the Silent Force,Mother Earth), but the others are obviously symphonic metal or gothic metal.
 * If you disagree with me ,listen to: The Howling, Our Solemn Hour, The Heart of Everything, Final Destination, The Truth Beneath The Rose, or to the entire Enter album...
 * Saying that the Mother Earth album is symphonic metal doesn't make sense.
 * Please...Listen to it by yourself and take your own conclusions...

RickyPinguim (talk) 18:02, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Rockdetector (one of the more reliable sources for metal genres, and certainly vastly more accurate than allmusic) describes them as gothic metal. Symphonic doesn't fit in my personal opinion, but I don't have a real problem with it, so I won't make any attempt to change that. Alternative metal however, I will remove on sight. Mentioning an element of it in the bulk of the article, provided it's sourced accurately, is fine, but there isn't enough of it within the band's discography as a whole to warrant mentioning it in the info box. Prophaniti (talk) 14:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Some are still arguing about this band being given an "alt. metal" tag. Well, I've outlined my arguments about it, and I also went and had a closer look at this supposed source: in truth, the Metal Observer article linked as a source never even mentions "alternative metal". It clearly gives "Silent Force" the symphonic metal tag, and mentions gothic as well. Never alternative. This is clear original research. As such I have removed the reference and the tag, both from this article and the albums. Prophaniti (talk) 18:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The source doesn't say directly "WT is alt-metal" but it compares them with an alt-metal band Evanescence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.236.161.137 (talk) 18:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that's not enough, not on it's own anyway. Comparing a band doesn't mean saying they are the same genre. To say that would constitute original research. Prophaniti (talk) 23:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I've now added 4 sources to make up the genre. All told, we clearly have plenty for gothic metal and symphonic metal, with the odd one for gothic rock too. Given this, would it be worth changing the opening line to "is a heavy metal band" (or just "metal band"). Yes, rock kind of covers it and is more general, but wikipedia goes by sources, not what certain users want or like. The sources are clearly in favour of metal of some sort. Heck, just look at it this way: how can Evanescence, who have not the slightest, barest grain of metal in their music, be termed "metal" in their opening line, and WT not. Prophaniti (talk) 22:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally I'm satisfied with those sources for now. Might need a bit of reassessment if a determined push is being made for FA (I wouldn't say that About.com is the best of sources) but 4 sources for the genres do overrule hearsay, personal opinion and original research so let's leave it for now. Unless of course you want to make that push for GA and then FA just now, in which case I'd be happy to do what I can to help! Caissa&#39;s DeathAngel (talk) 22:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I quite agree, the sources aren't perfect, but it's all I could find. Musicmight is just the same as is written in Sharpe-Young's published book "Metal: The Definitive Guide". I don't have that to hand right now, but I'll update that source when I can. Metal Observer and NME are both valid publications, so they should be fine. About.com is certainly a questionable one. I only really included it because it appears alright for reviews at least (having editorial staff, including some specifically for heavy metal music, rather than user-submissions). In addition, as much as I detest allmusic personally, it could also be added to back up gothic metal and gothic rock each. Prophaniti (talk) 23:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, agree with all of that. The other three are fine, and as this isn't an FAC I think we can let the about.com one lie until we find something better. There's certainly far more pressing tasks for the article than that now that we have 3 reliable sources for the genre. Well done! Perhaps we will finally let this lay to rest for a while now that you've sorted the WP:V issue!Caissa&#39;s DeathAngel (talk) 23:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Symphonic Metal Gothic Rock Symphonic rock Gothic Metal are you ok with it? . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.51.3.109 (talk) 18:23, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Since this reliable source: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&searchlink=WITHIN|TEMPTATION&sql=11:gifuxqu0ldde~T1 says that within temptation's style is goth rock(I agree their not A goth rock band but they have gothic sound in their music), gothic metal and symphonic music I agree with adding this four genres

Philanthropy
Do we really need a separate section on this right now? It's only got the one point, about Frozen. It would seem more sensible to include this in the bulk of the article where suitable, and on the page for "Frozen" itself. To have a separate section seems like it's trying to draw attention to the fact without the need for it given there's only one point to be made. Would anyone object to me moving the info and removing that section? Prophaniti (talk) 19:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Here we go again... (genre)
Okay Ada Kataki, here's your chance: could you please explain to us here why you are removing the allmusic reference terming them gothic rock, considering that it's A) published, B) using professional music journalists, and C) one of the most widely accepted and utilised music genre sources on wikipedia? Prophaniti (talk) 21:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

JUST BE LOGICAL!! Within Temptation is not gothic metal or symphonic metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.65.137.102 (talk) 09:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Stop editing things out you don't agree with and they are Symphonic metal. --Epica124 (talk) 20:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the source thing, but they're symphonic metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ireneo.e (talk • contribs) 18:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Genre
ok, there's a lot of fight for the genres but anything that has reliable sources can be published on wikipedia. Since Allmusic.com describes within temptation's style as Goth rock I agree with putting it into the infobox. I agree they're not a goth rock band, but they use Gothic rock elements (But mine or anyone's opinion doesn't count). Allmusic describes them too as a Gothic Metal band, and a symphonic metal band: " Goth metal stars Within Temptation marry the guitar-driven force of hard rock with the sweep and grandeur of symphonic music ". So I agree with putting this genres in the infobox: -> opinions doesn't count, just sources. Is everyone ok with that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ireneo.e (talk • contribs) 18:58, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Gothic Rock
 * Gothic Metal
 * Symphonic Metal
 * Symphonic Rock

Destroyed - Compilation album
I've been trying to find reliable sources for the compilation album Destroyed. It's kind of weird that it's not available through their personal website, not acknowledged on any store website I've been able to track down, and otherwise has no real concrete information about it. The best I've found is this site with a box and some basic information. Going to leave this here before I create an entry for it. 66.245.66.61 (talk) 04:46, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Seeing the same thing elsewhere. . YouTube has the song, im going to contact the uploader, see if they can provide me with any info. Sephiroth storm (talk) 04:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's on Amazon, unavailable, however, no reviews either, just the cover and track listing. 87.78.17.2 (talk) 17:28, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Found the back cover. Looks real. What threw me off though is that they reused the Stand My Ground cover... And not listed in Discogs, or anywhere else... Still odd, but I guess the back cover, low res as it may be, seems legit. So far I thought it was a fan compilation 87.78.17.2 (talk) 18:37, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I think that should probably be good enough to add to the page. Thank you. Arcadina (talk) 04:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * No, I'm fairly certain this is an (elaborate) hoax. I can only find this album on BitTorrent, including the (Photoshopped) covers. Getting it listed on Amazon doesn't really seem impossible to me either (second-hand retailers should be able to add new item to their database, I'd guess). So unless someone can find a reliable source or store where I can purchase this album it should not be added. —Ruud 01:20, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Stand my Ground - all chart positions are wrong!
In the article there is written that the single "Stand my ground" reached number 1 in Germany, the Netherlands and Austria. But thats wrong, as you can see in the references and in the German/Dutch Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.232.43.186 (talk) 21:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Number of albums sold
There are two listed references for this. The first is a copy edit from wikipedia, and cannot be used, even if from a reliable source. The second is not currently working, If this information cannot be verified, it will have to be removed again. Sephiroth storm (talk) 00:56, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * now there are three references, all three have been taken from wikipedia. Sephiroth storm (talk) 22:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

They are already immortalized. 109.184.172.84 (talk) 09:47, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I love WT as much as the next guy, but I will have to remove it unless a source can be found. Sephiroth storm (talk) 15:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The true is more dear than love. Sephiroth storm, you are certainly right.
 * But If this information is false I can't understand whence these numbers have appeared. Light077 (talk) 19:47, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Broken Reference
Reference 12, in the Enter section, is broken. Anyone able to figure out what it's supposed to be and fix it? 128.113.136.143 (talk) 11:16, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Confusion with Wish You Were Here
A lot of people believe that WT actually performed a cover of "Wish you were here song" (originally by Rednex). However, the version of "Wish you were here" usually associated with Within Temptation is actually performed by Blackmore's Night. The lead singers of both bands have somewhat similar voices, which led to the confusion. Within Temptation never performed "Wish you were here". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Getdefault (talk • contribs) 21:07, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

The Q-Music Sessions
Site indicates Q Music is a seperate album only for release in the Netherlands and Belgium. There still is an album in production for the later part of the year. From announcement: "At this moment, Within Temptation is working on their upcoming studio album that is due in the last quarter of 2013." "More information on The Q-Music Sessions, the tour as well as the upcoming album" Feel free to discuss. Sephiroth storm (talk) 11:25, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Totally Not About Genre
Here's the thing. Does this article really need to start with a paragraph full of genre discussions? They are band that walks the line between metal and pop music, which is always a touchy subject for the more puritanical metal fans among us. But that is not the most important thing about them. Is there no other place to put it? Oh wait, yes there is. There's that rather large section on Musical Style — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.224.220.129 (talk) 19:50, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The summary is far too long in my opinion, it seems to have been extended like an article from some time onwards. It does not need to list every record or event, and also the aforementioned discussion of style is out of the scope of a summary. I hope that there will be a consensus to reduce it to maybe one third of the lines that are there now, by moving the content to the matching paragraphs. --Mopskatze (talk) 16:52, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Awards and nominations
Since there's a specific article page for that subject, I think that the section here should be deleted, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 10mandown (talk • contribs) 21:06, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Within Temptation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070315183946/http://www.within-temptation.com:80/en/index.php?c=news to http://www.within-temptation.com/en/index.php?c=news&command=show_item&id=122

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Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 08:41, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Within Temptation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090510015844/http://community.within-temptation.com:80/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=4620&start=560&S=f92b11444f3c69139b05cd3b17ccf279 to http://community.within-temptation.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=4620&start=560&S=f92b11444f3c69139b05cd3b17ccf279

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 15:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Symphonic Rock
As the wiki uses it, symphonic rocks refers to an early style of progressive rock. However, I've seen no sources identifying Within Temptation as progressive rock. The way symphonic rock appears to be used here is one invented by the metal community to refer to symphonic metal bands that they do not consider to be be heavy metal, and does not reflect historic use of the term. I think the label symphonic rock should be removed as it leads to confusion now that it redirects to progressive rock.

Ganondox (talk) 04:02, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Probable wrong non-English word in text: abranging
1. Probable wrong-word or mis-spelled word, or non-English word in text.

Near the bottom paragraph of the subsection entitled this:

Hydra and various influences (2013–2016)

In the text that reads there as this::

The first official show happened on 26 February, in Helsinki, Finland, and the arena tour passed primarily in Europe, abranging a few summer festivals. The word in question is "abranging". English dictionaries fail to recognize that is a valid word. I would change it unilaterally to something like "bypassing" or "circumventing", but I'm not sure what the author intended to mean. What does anyone think is meant?

Search Google and dictionaries -- the closest I find are Portuguese or Hindu works -- not English. That said I don't have ready access to an O.E.D. for cross-check. Online OED says "no match". James Rodriguez 12:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, native Portuguese speaker here. This word was added by, who turns out to be a fellow Brazilian (and Portuguese speaker, presumably). I suppose it is an attempted translation of "abrangendo", a verb that could be translated as "include", "embrace" or maybe even "cover". I understand he meant the tour included some performances at summer festivals.  Victão Lopes  Fala! 02:54, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

"Bleed Out (Within Temptation album" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bleed_Out_(Within_Temptation_album&redirect=no Bleed Out (Within Temptation album] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 01:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)